Someone Explain

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by just. мỖήika., Sep 6, 2018.

  1. dillzpicklez

    dillzpicklez

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    In my opinion, I feel like Saberist vs Gunner gameplay is actually quite balanced in its state right now although it’s not a perfect balance and may still need some work and special attention it still is playable.

    Saberists do have an advantage over gunners though because of the amount of chances they are given but that may just be justified since the amount of ground they have to cover to get within swing range can make it difficult (they get shot multiple times trying to close the distance and lose a lot of fp) and even if they get within swing range they still have to dodge and weave or get a good push or pull to secure the kill. Drains are just another issue that in my opinion needs to get raised a tad and it would lean the balance to more so over to the side of the gunner.

    Side note: I also feel like third person should be removed from gunning because it just promotes the waiting game and everyone corner camping making gameplay extremely slow and in my opinion less skillful since you can just peek before hand and get a shot on someone not expecting it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2018
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  2. |CB|Lyrion

    |CB|Lyrion Internal Beta Team

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    I've actually thought about somethings that could fix the issues a while ago.

    In my imaginary build... Blasters would do more damage (50/65 dmg per shot) and so pretty much 2 shooting Jedi/Sith. Their defence would be reduced so that block range is centered around the very saber and less around the character model. This mean Jedi/Sith are twice more vulnerable to side/ambush and even frontal attacks from blasters.

    So for example... A lonely gunner would be in trouble, as it should be.. but when they stack up and start shooting on multiple angles and side, it'll force the Jedi to skillfully and quickly move his saber right/left, use backpedal and skillfull deflects to avoid getting sandwiched and overwhelmed by gunners bolts.

    Blasters Users would need to work closely togethers, use clever ambush and strategies to penetrate Jedi/Sith Defence, instead of just trying to drain it.

    This would be counter balanced by Jedi with good deflection, but also the fact that in my imaginary build, full auto fire is now always inaccurate, lower ammos which promote gunners to use more primary fire.

    (Blaster bolts might also be a slight quicker)

    Now you will agree that if blaster bolts do terrible damage, its only natural the same deflected bolt inflicts the same wounds. Thing is.. It would be pretty op with current deflection, but fear not, as i've also imaginated a way to make it harder and more skillfull.

    I was mainly imaginating it to work as something we're all familiar with..


    The sabering system.

    - Neutral Block
    - Manual Block [MB]
    - Semi.[yellow circle in previous build]
    - Perfect Block [PB]
    - Parries.(Blue circle in previous build)

    I was imaginating deflection to work in a closely similar manner...

    - Neutral Block.
    - Manual Block. [MB]
    - Semi Deflect. [SD]
    - Perfect Deflect. [PD]
    - Deflective Parry Swing. [DPS]

    ----------------------------------------------
    Neutral Block. [held block without MB on bolt contact]
    A: Sucess! You managed to avoid a new hole in you're ass.. for the price of slighty higher FP damage.
    ----------------------------------------------

    Manual Block would be needed to perform any successful deflection attempt, but also reduce the FP damage from Neutral Block on bolt contact. It would also be coupled with a good timing, like MB-Disarm to determine based on timing if you...

    A: Semi Deflect the bolt.
    B: Perfect Deflect. the bolt.

    It could also simply work with MB Direction juxtaposed to the bolt incoming angle/height/side and good timing. [Exemple]: If the bolt is coming to hit upper body area you also need to adjust your MB direction in relation to the bolt highest, or lowest position! To say simply... if its coming to the left, you also need to MB left animations, down area you need to perform down MBs Animations... Ect.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Semi Deflect. [Held Block + MB - Wrong Timing/Direction] could make the bolt...

    A: Getting deflect randomly in any directions: Wall / Ground / Roof / and so on...
    B: Deflected inaccurately where you aim at.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Perfect Deflect. [Held Block + MB+ Good Timing/Direction] would make the bolt...

    [Neutral] Sucess! Bolt is getting deflected where you aim at.

    [Extreme Buff] Bolt is automaticaly deflected on the same angle it initialy got shot from.

    ----------------------------------------------
    -Deflective Parry Swing [Swing Block on bolt contact]

    DPS would work like a sort of Q3, with the use of SwingBlock, counting deflection like a Semi.Deflect, spliting neutral block damage on both FP and BP which would also inflict a very, very short stagger for the one performing the deflective swing.

    ----------------------------------------------
    I'd like to see these new deflection features having a close relation with levels so that Jedi whom want a more support orianted type of gameplay can focus on this new Deflection Mechanism entierly and benefits more diversity in the way to approach these situations.

    Deflect level 1:
    -You can only Block/Semi Deflect.

    -Saber Block Range: Very Small Defence Zone! (As large as the saber blade) [Dangerously open to frontal and side shots without perfect camera motions]
    ----------------------------------------------
    Deflect level 2:
    -With further training, you can now successfully deflect bolts back at enemies. [Perfect Deflect]

    -Saber Block Range: Medium Defence Zone.

    About 0.5/1mm larger defence zone from DF1. (Still dangerously open to overall incoming shots without good camera motion, but give abit more place to slight mistakes)
    ----------------------------------------------
    Deflect level 3:
    -With even more training, you are now able to also deflect bolts while performing a swing! [PDS]+[SD]

    -Saber Block Range: High Defence Zone.

    About 0.5/1mm larger defence zone from DF2 (Still dangerously open to side shots, but give alot more room for camera mistakes agaisnt multiple opponents) You can picture this defence zone very slighty less larger then characters model shoulders.
    ----------------------------------------------
    (?)Deflect level 4(?):
    -Having mastered the art of deflection, you're connection to the force now allow you to also deflect bolts accurately back at enemies while performing a swing [DPS]+[PD]

    Saber Block Range: Very High.

    Defence zone as large as character shoulders. You're safe from frontal shots at this points, even without camera motions, but you're sides are still open to shots if gunners manage to put your attention on different angle to force camera motions from right to left.
    ----------------------------------------------
    (?)Deflect level 5(?):
    -Having reach such a connection with the force, Blaster bolts are no match for you. You gain a slight pasive reduction in force points used to perform Deflections and Neutral Block.
    → (Or it could act like a passive for each level as in, each one actually give you a little, very slight reduction in FP cost for performing deflections.)
    ----------------------------------------------
    If you're confused about DPS i've got it covered as well in more details.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  3. PuNk

    PuNk Internal Beta Team

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    So you would have us dueling in first person too? Because it would be largely unfair to have jedi/sith be in third person while gunners being locked in first one. Sounds wrong to me.
     
  4. |CB|Lyrion

    |CB|Lyrion Internal Beta Team

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    1P saber/gunners Only server would be crazy awesome.
     
  5. PuNk

    PuNk Internal Beta Team

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    It would be fun for a few rounds but it would get boring real quick.
     
  6. |CB|Lyrion

    |CB|Lyrion Internal Beta Team

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    It sure is not for everyone, but I used to do it alot back in the past, thing is its simply not fair when agaisnt 3P sabers with current 1P FOV, but personally thats the only way i'd like to play. I also always and exclusively play DarkForce2 and Outcast in 1P.

    If devs rework 1P FOV it could be very, very pleasurable to fight with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  7. Stassin

    Stassin Movie Battles II Team Retired

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    Seeing this i can't help but reply. One of the best ideas around, it's been proposed for a long time (the earliest i can remember talking about it is polaks-gog): force all gunners on 1st person, allow jedi/sith only to use 3rd person, remove force sense from open mode.

    This would be SO good, as was said it would dramatically improve gunner gameplay, while representing a jedi's sensing ability by 3rd person instead of the ability of force sense (also known as wallhack) which causes alot of issues.


    As for increasing the dmg on gunshots while giving random accuracy to autofire (high rate of fire), i'd prefer a route where autofire simply has lower projectile speed and slow rate of fire has higher projectile speed. Having random accuracy is something that's generally not very fun, and we already have alot of it...
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
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  8. |CB|Lyrion

    |CB|Lyrion Internal Beta Team

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    These are things i can agree with!

    Oh, and don't get me wrong, my idea about blaster/deflection ain't a good idea with the current ways deflect/blasters/ammo/damage and fp work anyway.. It's just a thing I imagined as an whole that would work and counter balance closely each others. It wasn't thought with the current way saber/blaster work in mind.

    Deflect/Blaster/Damage/Ammo/ Bolt Speed and FP are things that should be closely thought in relation toward each others, or its gonna fail. They are closely related. You cant just tweak one thing without tweaking all the others.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
  9. PuNk

    PuNk Internal Beta Team

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    But 1st person in this game is so shit lol. If this happened I'd never go on an Open server again. Sounds silly. Maybe as a server sided mod perhaps.
     
  10. |CB|Lyrion

    |CB|Lyrion Internal Beta Team

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    Oh of course! I'm not saying to convert all servers, but it would be a nice addition to give servers owner the choice/possibilities to get an 1P only servers. Sadly for me and other 1P lovers i doubt MB2 ever see enough of a population boost to fill these servers.. but one can always hope.

    The best alternative would be simply to revamp 1P FOV so that anyone can use it in any servers without suffering too hard against 3P players.
     
  11. WaceMindu

    WaceMindu

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    Tbh I could get behind such an idea, as long as you vastly improve the current first person view.
     
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  12. Crusader

    Crusader

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    no no krokodil stassin no no
     
  13. Faux

    Faux

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    pls no just go away
     
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  14. Chaos the Chaotic

    Chaos the Chaotic Nerd

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    Try it as a mode. I'd play it.
     

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