I think we can all agree mb2 is full of troll using grip to indirectly tk their teammates.
Since admin are not omnipotent being and cant be here 24/24, I have two proposals.
When using grip on your own team, your tk point raises immediatly preventing you from doing it more than 1-2 sec.
If you get killed while gripped, you can punish your teamate with instant death for him.
1st point is probably easy to implement, second point might be more problematic and moreover i don't think it's needed if the 1st point is already in place.
I suggest we remove all trolls by removing MB2 completely. That's a final solution they deserve.
>1st point
>lini
This ruins tactical grip used to place SBDs or infantry where they can't jump on their own. Ruining a game to get rid of trolls is something we have to stop doing, you know.
Not to mention how this doesn't prevent trolling people the same way with any other stun instead of grip.
I see relatively little grip trolling at least on eu. Not worth to add this punishment because it removes tactical gripping on teammates (aka fun stuff).
Punishing for dying due to grip cold be cool but as stassin said, maybe a tad problematic to implement.
Maybe have the TK points applied for grip put in escrow and give the player being gripped a prompt to forgive or punish? Something like that would allow players to tactically grip and then forgive the sith for the damage or punish them if the sith was trolling them.
I see relatively little grip trolling at least on eu. Not worth to add this punishment because it removes tactical gripping on teammates (aka fun stuff).
Punishing for dying due to grip cold be cool but as stassin said, maybe a tad problematic to implement.
As a general position, I think devs should throw tools at the players and be like 'have fun' and that it would be up to the individual servers and server admins to handle potential trolls. If the devs spend their time policing trolls, then it will never end and the game will degenerate with every patch until MB2 is finished.
Imagine if this line of regulating player behaviour was taken to the extreme. It's basically someone telling someone else how the game is supposed to be played, tow the party line, play exactly like this otherwise it's not right and must be punished. I understand the temptation to punish trolls and to limit their arsenal, but I think the game is immensely poorer without things like hugging and torso-spazzing and other various fun bugs. The same goes for mapping. I think a general mapping philosophy should be centered around giving the player as free and unrestricted movement as possible, in order to facilitate creative strategy and fun, varied gameplay. This carries over into general system design and everything else as well.
If I am playing with friends I don't want them to take any team-kill points from harming me in anyway, and I think it is reasonable to have that option.
Those not on the list could then have the ramped up TK points from grip.
Of course, you could always remove and add to the list at leisure.
It's not a perfect solution, but at least you can wisen up to who you can trust. That way, the system improves at the same rate as your judgement of character.
That is why I said 'If I am playing with friends'. Not, 'If I am playing with Padawan[1]'. In either case the element of control is entirely in your hands: play normally, don't grip them or TK and nothing is different.
Should I advocate for the removal of console because we can trick players into "/qui gon"?
What if I have grip and can win a round by moving someone who does not trust me?
It is not a solution, to begin with. There's no grip trolling problem at all, there's a lack of TK point penalty for stun/knockdown assists. What you suggest would remove a significant portion of gameplay and only force potential trolls to use, let's say, sonic charges or you name it instead of grip. I don't see how this is an improvement. Not to mention how manhours potentially spent on this can be spent on something that is really important. For instance, fixing a bit more real problem you've mentioned - not being able to forgive non-lethal damage.
What if I have grip and can win a round by moving someone who does not trust me?
It is not a solution, to begin with. There's no grip trolling problem at all, there's a lack of TK point penalty for stun/knockdown assists. What you suggest would remove a significant portion of gameplay and only force potential trolls to use, let's say, sonic charges or you name it instead of grip. I don't see how this is an improvement. Not to mention how manhours potentially spent on this can be spent on something that is really important. For instance, fixing a bit more real problem you've mentioned - not being able to forgive non-lethal damage.
There is a grip trolling problem. Unless, of course, Rajive is lying to all of us?
Being a nuisance with grip, knock-down, lightning (ion included) and sonic grenade can all be lumped into the category of 'using some form of crowd-control to facilitate/make vulnerable a teammate to being killed by the enemy'.
Rajive is concerned with grip; he wants to make it so team-kill points accrue exponentially such that the assailant can't carry out his act for more than two seconds (ballpark figure, I presume). He has a second solution, but I can only say I agree strongly with the first. More than that, I would like to extend Rajive's suggestion to all team-kill points associated with the above-defined category to have the same draconian rule. That is to say a knockdown from a teammate that results in death should have a harsher punishment. This is because in MB2, for a gunner, a knockdown is a death-sentence.
At this point I think you have misunderstood my intention, and that I want to eradicate all possibilities where dealing team-damage has some form of tactical purpose. To be blunt; no, I don't. Not even inadvertently.
My suggestion is a counterpart to the extension of Rajive's idea. With team-kill points being inflated, a player should be allowed to select who should not receive team-kill points for these activities (and team damage in general).
I think it is quite easy to satiate your 'What if'. To start, it's a bit of a superficial scenario to say you will move someone with grip and that sole action alone will win the round. But more importantly, if that person does not trust you, and does not want you to grip him into a position: don't. Grip immobilises the target and deals damage. If your teammate does not want to be immobilised or damaged by you, for whatever reason: don't. Not even if you think it will make you win. That is why the current team-kill point system is in place. It prevents undue damage dealt by teammates. It cannot, however address the converse situation in which a teammate wants to be damaged.
Here is why this is an improvement to the game (or at least, the current punishment system): you can now deal damage to players who want to receive damage without repercussion. Done, now you can team-kill as many soldiers as you want to defend throne/control room (whatever it is on lunarbase). You don't need to worry about focusing on combat and accidentally giving your teammate team-kill points. Now you can grip your teammate to high-heaven so long as he has the health for it. If you really wanted, you could pop your teammate in the head with a low base damage weapon to push them out of saber reach, or to accelerate manda.
More importantly, it alleviates the awkward scenario the game currently has in which you do accidentally team-kill two players who decide to punish, rightly or wrongly. You now have to bide by tense rounds straddling yellow points until the server's abysmally slow depreciation rate pushes you back into white. It's an awful situation because you never had the intention of team killing and do want to contribute to the team, but are effectively neutered because you will die if you so much as look in the wrong way. You can't play gunner because a stray shot will kill you, nor can you play Jedi because a push or a random deflect will kill you. At least with this system, you can still play effectively with a group of friends who have white-listed you.
The current contending solution that I see you have agreed with is from Appo. You seem to think that the real problem is negating team-kill points attributed to non-lethal damage which of course is what Appo's solution will do. You also say the man-hours should be better invested in implementing this. I think Appo's suggestion is good, so the following isn't meant with any disrespect. I just think for the same amount of man-hours what I suggest will probably be easier to achieve.
I don't have experience programming, especially not on large projects, but I imagine there are two broad factors that constitute 'feasibility':
1) Complexity of the thing you are trying to implement (how you describe it logically, etc.)
2) How easy is it to assimilate the thing you are trying to implement with surrounding structures (will adding it screw up something elsewhere, etc.)
What I suggest is a list that you can add a player to, very much like you do with /ignore. That player who then hits you will not accumulate team-kill points for the damage dealt. This will last until they are removed from the list. Players not on the list will get team-kill points.
Appo's suggestion seems a bit more dynamic. There might be an easy answer to it that I have overlooked, but to open the discussion: what is the appropriate time frame to forgive? If two team-mates (A and B) hit you at the same time, how do you forgive any combination of A and B with an interface that is concise? Is it practical to micromanage and play judge for every bit of team damage? Because I imagine the menu will pop-up every time you're hit. If you extend this to 16 players on a team, what does your team-kill menu look like?
Edited to fix a few typos, but I'm sure you'll point them out for me if I've missed any. Thank you, friend.
