So...the saber system...

agentoo8

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Why is it so dogshit now? it's like only yellow is viable, red nudge is removed and the ability to chain in any direction, etc.

Seems most people i speak to agree. What is this incessant need to radically reimagine the saber system every x couple of months? Can we not just revert it to a point where it WAS balanced to as good a degree as possible?

#rant
 
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Would be easier if some dev just said: "no worries, jewie, saber system in works! Gonna fix everything!"

Worries me that developers might be thinking right now that everything is fine as it is. While it's not.
 

agentoo8

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Red has been rendered useless vs competent yellow/blue. Who is actually on the team testing this?

Revert it/improve this dogshit please.
 

Helix

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What you don't seem to understand is that there is only one person busy with everything code-related atm, and that is Tempest, and he has real life just like everyone. And saber system isn't the only thing which requires actual coding. Absence of a design plan and lack of developers (coders especially) is a huge problem.
So get that collar off Sheo's neck and let him get back to the team fully.
 

Defiant

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Tempest is working on some saber updates, but this takes time to get right both in design and implementation.

Helix - there are other coders working on other things. It's not just Tempest.
 

{Δ} Achilles

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Would be easier if some dev just said: "no worries, jewie, saber system in works! Gonna fix everything!"

Worries me that developers might be thinking right now that everything is fine as it is. While it's not.


no worries, jewie, saber system in works! Gonna fix everything!
 
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devs decided to remove nudge globally (which i think was a pretty good idea, because nudge looks retarded and overall is a weird mechanic inducing people to facehug each other and make nigh unPBlockable swings) but didn't really care how it would affect Red thus almost completely ruining it. Red vs Red is still pretty fun though. I'd really love to participate in a Red only tournament.
 

SeV

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Red has been rendered useless vs competent yellow/blue. Who is actually on the team testing this?

Revert it/improve this dogshit please.

The developmental process for the saber system changes has been extremely bad after 1.4, atleast from my perspective. I can't' say what goes on behind the devs closed doors, but for a year I have attempted to offer myself up as a beta tester, given opinions on the saber system and tried to steer devs towards a better place.

This seemed to have absolutely no effect on the outcome of the system so far though, since in the time that I've been a beta tester I've seen grotesque abominations like 1.4.4 and 1.4.5 just being pulled from thin air when we weren't even testing it at all. And I myself am at a loss as to where, how and why this has happened.

I also have to mention 1.4.3, since that was also an abomination in its own right. Yellows perk bugged + 50 % bodyhit parries. Abomination. 1.4.4 -> Huge, retarded swingdrains, PB counters dominating the meta. Abomination. 1.4.5 - lots of minor bugs, boring one dimensional ACM dominated meta with no chance for true skill to shine through, and disfigured, crippled styles (blue prime example, red aswell. I think red needs nudge to be fun and functional. Any very slow style needs that otherwise its just pure shit to play with).

So I don't know what is going on?


I hope that big changes to the developmental process will take place.

Namely, first of all, test the damn saber system some more in the beta team. Our tests in recent months feel inconsequential to me. Like I'm wasting my time, basically. Why are we testing FA balance on maps no one plays when the saber system is crap, tempest has a work in progress and we have 15 ppl we can deploy to polish it?

So step 1 is to get internal beta tests in order.

Step 2 for me is to run public beta test cycles.

Example, internal beta team tests a system for bugs. Then it is pushed out for public testing for a week. A feedback thread is made, looked through by devs and people like me. We all come together to gather up the most important feedback on 'tempests' system.

Then tempest and whoever else is developming, make adjustments to the system whether it be public open mode or dueling mode related, then the internal beta team tests this for bugs and suggest minor changes. We do one last polishing bug testing test to make sure servers arent crashing and that shit is playable etc. Then we push it into another public test cycle so we can actually play and duel to our hearts content.

For the love of stuffed rolled meat, you then just repeat this cycle until we have a saber system that isn't an untested emergency fix, but a well thought out, thorougly tested and 'feedbacked' saber system. A system thats fun to play, and that doesn't artificially restrict players playstyles and choices, but allows for deep levels of skill and mindgames instead of a plain, dry, boring ACM grind.

TL;DR Dev process seems broken. Fix it for profit.
 

MaceMadunusus

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Namely, first of all, test the damn saber system some more in the beta team. Our tests in recent months feel inconsequential to me. Like I'm wasting my time, basically. Why are we testing FA balance on maps no one plays when the saber system is crap, tempest has a work in progress and we have 15 ppl we can deploy to polish it?

We have said this to you and others before. Those of us running those other tests (FA, Maps, etc) are testing our work that we are familiar with and know the insides and out. You can't have unguided or myself running saber tests when we aren't experts in the saber system in the first place nor do we really know what changes are happening on a weekly/daily basis without doing extra work on our part when we are already doing a lot. If someone who does joins and wants to run that portion then they are more than welcome to. Similar to what I did in my last test session where we did my stuff first then Viserys took over for her stuff.

Step 2 for me is to run public beta test cycles..

We want to do this but requires upgrades to the launcher that are not yet ready.
 

SeV

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We have said this to you and others before. Those of us running those other tests (FA, Maps, etc) are testing our work that we are familiar with and know the insides and out. You can't have unguided or myself running saber tests when we aren't experts in the saber system in the first place nor do we really know what changes are happening on a weekly/daily basis without doing extra work on our part when we are already doing a lot. If someone who does joins and wants to run that portion then they are more than welcome to. Similar to what I did in my last test session where we did my stuff first then Viserys took over for her stuff.



We want to do this but requires upgrades to the launcher that are not yet ready.

I know, and I'm not blaming you. I merely trotted it out as an example because it perfectly illustrates my point. I can't recall the last time we had a saber test, but it was like half a year ago or so, and time was mostly spent fixing server crashing bugs and never testing the actual gameplay. Meanwhile the saber devs sit theorizing in an ivory tower removed from all practical testing, or atleast such practical testing has never really involved me the way it did in 1.4 with stassin. Now I understand that that wasn't what the process was like at the time and that it was merely a unique circumstance. But I believe that the testing process was/is broken and needs to be fixed.

I can think of many productive tests if we're talking map bugs, map feedback or model bugs/feedback. But I cannot think of a single productive internal beta test involving the saber system where we tested actual gameplay in the year that I've been in the team. What little testing I do recollect was bug testing for random server crash errors, and had nothing to do with testing tempests saber system implementation and ideas.
 

MaceMadunusus

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I can't recall the last time we had a saber test, but it was like half a year ago or so.

December 6th 2017. So 20 days ago. I've seen Tempest gather a few people at random for small scale tests too in the last month or so.
 
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