REVERT POLL

[MaceMadunusus]

revert the dueling system independently to 1.4.9 where it was objectively better than the current, this has been discussed and tested time and time again for years.

This is said every damn saber patch though, so yeah at least its accurate that it has been "discussed and tested time and time again for years". Why does it always feel like history repeats itself every patch?

For as long as I've been here I've seen developers bend over backwards for the saber system, implementing the ideas of the "highest level" duelists in the community. Only for other duelists to not be satisfied and call for complete reversion. It seems like you please one group, then another group hates you. We've repeatedly spent multiple years working on saber system updates consulting many in the community in the process. However, it seems to result in the same extremist takes when the saber system finally releases. It is like people don't remember the same calls about the 1.4.x systems and how 1.3x was better and we should revert.

Can we get some actual ideas and possible solutions in here instead of this bullshit again?

 

[Medaroh]

Man I haven't been on the forums in ages.

Blah blah actual ideas blah possible solutions blah blah bullshit

We fix blah blah blah past blah

Blah blah EU is supreme blah I'm old and been here longer than you blah blah blah

To my inquisitive surprise, it appears the game is currently dying.

Open including Duels has been tweaked and updated to oblivion and Legends mode appears to be the majority of the population.

The vets of dueling and open play are mad.

The devs are also mad, and we are also in limited supply of devs now.

That also includes a limited supply of players actually caring enough about the game.

I have played from 1.3+ and on. I've tested pretty much every beta from the start of 1.5 era TSB, to Stassins "tests" that were bugged to shit.

The current build, all the way leading up to this is built on the foundation of 1.5.

Players waited years for TSB to live, and when it drops, everyone loses their minds.

Ambition is good, but dueling is actually broken now.

1.3 had its day, and it would be nice to see a tweaked version of a stable 1.3 build with it's mechanics,

but 1.4.9 was imo the most stable it was ever at. Could even match 1.9 in terms of how smooth the game play was with dueling,

but there were quite a many problems from 1.5+.

This is a side note, but y'all pretty much Disney+'d Open, and that's why pop is dead on that front too.

It's not insane to think about a patch for dueling that was optimized, as a baseline for bringing back the community to enjoy the game again.

It sucks cause there's obviously years of progress, development and things that are actually cool to mess around with.

It just didn't hit the mark, and people who play competitively are very passionate about what works and what doesn't.

You have a flooded community trying to keep up enjoyment and play time with current systems that obviously don't attract a lot of people.

The only way you can save this game is either revert to what good was, or take concepts from what was good, actually fix shit and make progress,

and deliver.

I would rather play with only 3 character skins, a blaster and a lightsaber, on one map as long as the mechanics of the game were solid and people

actually enjoyed themselves on a game.

Mace: Ideas and solutions only go so far. Bias is running literally everything about the dueling system.

Defiant: Fixing issues obviously didn't go well. It's been a long time and it's only gotten worse.

Valkyrie: Idk why you have to come off as some RP Executive Politician for EU, but you've been here a long time and I unfortunately haven't had the

grace to hear anything good come from your mouth.

Reverting to 1.3/1.4.9 isn't going to solve every problem you guys have, but it certainly would solve a lot of issues right now.

That is my honest and neutral opinion.

Good day,

Exo

 

[KimmyMarin]

1.3 team

 

[SnowBlind]

Yep. I've seen the various lists provided in discord or what-not, but what I am looking for are very actionable suggestions which include some numbers to help along the process since our Saber Lead is on sabbatical. 10% increase/decrease here, actual bug to fix there. That kind of thing. Starting from the highest priority to the lowest in terms of what should be done this upcoming patch.

I think there is a feeling of not wanting to step on Tempest's toes, but also an understanding from him that there are legit issues to fix and he understands someone needs to step up to get that done.

So, what I suggest is to provide a clear and concise list which features actionable change. Picture yourself as a dev making the actual change and describe it in that manner for that list.

Going off Hessu's list I will give you some numbers/actionable steps.

high priority

pb zone adjustments->insert 1.10 pre calc angle values and go from there in determining delays observed for pb.

hitboxes->don't have much technical knowledge for this, insert 1.10 hitboxes where applicable.

reduced knockdown damage-> If this is 1.0 already in code, reduce acm gain or don't factor acm into the dmg, would prefer to just delete acm, game will probably run better, but alas probably not going to happen if we stick to tempest's arrangement.

pb on return always on->simple enough.

medium priority

nerf bodyhit counters-> simple solution = no body hit counter, medium solution = use same swing/transition animation in air for body hit counters, e.g BOTH_T1__R__L for yellow d counter, if you want a reference, I think this is done pre 1.4 for d side counters. To be noted some of these transition animations are spins so some alteration would be needed there, adjust speed accordingly down the line. Harder/finnicky solution = implementing bodyhit counter on saber collision with medium solution implemented additionally?

nerf running-> simple although not wholistic solution = increase dmg taken on running state, medium solutions = any hit altering movement speed/forcing fast walk, same for returns on swings potentially.

remove mb defense, simple enough.

style balancing, personal takes are going to vary alot here with vision for the styles. Fundamental approach, don't have great timings on every aspect or most aspects of swings, clearly defined weaknesses or roles. Make sure there is a swing interaction that enables an option to be shutdown/worked around. I would potentially add extra return time to blue/cyan/duals when pb'd to slow the styles down.

acm scaling, if this isn't going to be deleted, have an approach where defensive actions cancel out offensive gain, e.g pb reducing acm etc.

slower bp regen, start with 3bp per 400ms, additionally revert whatever was done to the swing block drains, attacking needs to cost something.

bp regen on pb, if this is implemented start off very low 1-2bp at most to make up for parry drains or swing block drains etc.

remove yaw dmg clamping.

personal

instant a halfswing on yellow, can only be done from body hit with combo dmg no acm gain, potentially only from a/d swings. To shut down neutral attacks between halfswing attempts when there is successful attack, to link pressure more seamlessly, to shutdown mashes out of missed slaps easier.

 

[Hessu]

Going off Hessu's list I will give you some numbers/actionable steps.

high priority

pb zone adjustments->insert 1.10 pre calc angle values and go from there in determining delays observed for pb.

hitboxes->don't have much technical knowledge for this, insert 1.10 hitboxes where applicable.

reduced knockdown damage-> If this is 1.0 already in code, reduce acm gain or don't factor acm into the dmg, would prefer to just delete acm, game will probably run better, but alas probably not going to happen if we stick to tempest's arrangement.

pb on return always on->simple enough.

medium priority

nerf bodyhit counters-> simple solution = no body hit counter, medium solution = use same swing/transition animation in air for body hit counters, e.g BOTH_T1__R__L for yellow d counter, if you want a reference, I think this is done pre 1.4 for d side counters. To be noted some of these transition animations are spins so some alteration would be needed there, adjust speed accordingly down the line. Harder/finnicky solution = implementing bodyhit counter on saber collision with medium solution implemented additionally?

nerf running-> simple although not wholistic solution = increase dmg taken on running state, medium solutions = any hit altering movement speed/forcing fast walk, same for returns on swings potentially.

remove mb defense, simple enough.

style balancing, personal takes are going to vary alot here with vision for the styles. Fundamental approach, don't have great timings on every aspect or most aspects of swings, clearly defined weaknesses or roles. Make sure there is a swing interaction that enables an option to be shutdown/worked around. I would potentially add extra return time to blue/cyan/duals when pb'd to slow the styles down.

acm scaling, if this isn't going to be deleted, have an approach where defensive actions cancel out offensive gain, e.g pb reducing acm etc.

slower bp regen, start with 3bp per 400ms, additionally revert whatever was done to the swing block drains, attacking needs to cost something.

bp regen on pb, if this is implemented start off very low 1-2bp at most to make up for parry drains or swing block drains etc.

remove yaw dmg clamping.

personal

instant a halfswing on yellow, can only be done from body hit with combo dmg no acm gain, potentially only from a/d swings. To shut down neutral attacks between halfswing attempts when there is successful attack, to link pressure more seamlessly, to shutdown mashes out of missed slaps easier.

These are good suggestions. My list was vague and not detailed for gathering opinions and having most people agree on what needs changing the most. Then going to discuss on the details.

I think I removed reduced kd damage from the list because it should be either 1.0 (or 1.25x from what I last read) and the problem clearly is high base damage and ACM, not the knockdown damage itself. Yaw nerf should be gone too from what I heard

 

[LanceOfLonginus]

Saberists should be left to stew in the slop of their own design for a few years while we get some much needed fresh air breathed into gunning on mb2

Or we can redesign the system again

 

[yle yatarn.]

I suggest re-adding the instant-grip feature and ability to grip your teammates.

 

[cocaine]

There are several changes I personally liked about recent updates, but all the things I liked had a bad side too.

Dueling is ofcourse the most talked about and I understand why. I never was quite fond of dueling myself, but right now I'd rather just try and kill a jedi/sith in ANY other way (especially now that you can seemingly push/pull anyone at will...), rather than dueling with them.

There are also countless weird, "QoL" changes like taunts getting stuck in animation, and unnecessary removal of funny bugs and glitches such as hopping around.
This might sound weird at first, but all these tiny changes made the game feel more soulless.

And then there were changes like with speed lunge, you could finally avoid falling to death and not being able to turn around, but at the cost of not being able to use it from closer ranges, which was pretty usefull both against gunners and other jedi/sith.


I don't want the good things gone from the current patch, but I would absolutely revert the moment I'm given the chance.
The bad things in recent versions simply outweigh the good things.

 

[Crusader]

Why would you revert anything over a minigame. So much time has been wasted on one aspect of one of the seven classes interacting with one of seven classes of the opposing team.

Fair enough, I don't want to monopolize developers time and as hobby I don't think it's fair to dictate what they work on. However, it is incredibly inefficient, aimless and detracts from a much larger portion of the game. It's been like this for years. Duelists are crackheads and they're always pining after x patch in a never ending pursuit of the dragon.

 

[Eaterofworlds]

Why not this poll? Another sabering poll

We fix forward rather than going backwards to the problems of the past.

The problems of the past made the mod better, and what you may consider bad wasn't bad for most of the playerbase. That's why this shit is going six feet under now and has been for a long time because with every update you kill the mod further. You're breaking map visuals, you're messing the mod up in every way, shape, and form. You need to consider looking in the past and see what you changed from back then into now and figure out what you did wrong with the future.

You also messed up many map layouts, and made a lot of pointless changes - like, removing the slap "jump" affect which was a great source of impact, satisfaction, and readability. Half-swing was removed from yellow recently, why? Why are the materials on mb2_duel_revan screwed up now, the shaders on CC are bad, you changed Yavin IV's lighting for the worse, and you ruined mb2_duel_kamino.

There are so many things that have gone wrong on top of all this especially with the saber system and tons of unnecessary changes that made the game fun, this shit is dead. MaceMadunusus told me a year ago that the game was growing, no, it's not.

 

[Crusader]

Calm down crackhead.

 

[Eaterofworlds]

Calm down crackhead.

I'm perfectly calm, just venting my frustrations out as a 2011 player.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Why are the materials on mb2_duel_revan screwed up now, the shaders on CC are bad, you changed Yavin IV's lighting for the worse, and you ruined mb2_duel_kamino.

Nothing has really changed on those in a long time? The addition of Rend2 shaders to revan didn't impact regular materials and only works in rend2. Cloud city hasn't been touched outside of a couple bug fixes (glitches through patch meshes). Yavin 4 hasn't had its update yet to my knowledge? But either way yavin 4s lighting is.... no lighting, its a -meta compile. And Kamino duel hasn't changed in basically its entire existence with the exception of adding 3d water so it wasn't floating???

What the heck are you talking about.

There are so many things that have gone wrong on top of all this especially with the saber system and tons of unnecessary changes that made the game fun, this shit is dead. MaceMadunusus told me a year ago that the game was growing, no, it's not.

Probably misquoting what I said, I dont remember a time I recently said MB2 was "growing". Only that its not dying. Which there is a difference. However my opinion of things has changed as of the last year or so.

 

[Eaterofworlds]

Nothing has really changed on those in a long time? The addition of Rend2 shaders to revan didn't impact regular materials and only works in rend2. Cloud city hasn't been touched outside of a couple bug fixes (glitches through patch meshes). Yavin 4 hasn't had its update yet to my knowledge? But either way yavin 4s lighting is.... no lighting, its a -meta compile. And Kamino duel hasn't changed in basically its entire existence with the exception of adding 3d water so it wasn't floating???

What the heck are you talking about.



Probably misquoting what I said, I dont remember a time I recently said MB2 was "growing". Only that its not dying. Which there is a difference. However my opinion of things has changed as of the last year or so.

You said it was growing and had more people than ever.

 

[Eaterofworlds]

Nothing has really changed on those in a long time? The addition of Rend2 shaders to revan didn't impact regular materials and only works in rend2. Cloud city hasn't been touched outside of a couple bug fixes (glitches through patch meshes). Yavin 4 hasn't had its update yet to my knowledge? But either way yavin 4s lighting is.... no lighting, its a -meta compile. And Kamino duel hasn't changed in basically its entire existence with the exception of adding 3d water so it wasn't floating???

What the heck are you talking about.



Probably misquoting what I said, I dont remember a time I recently said MB2 was "growing". Only that its not dying. Which there is a difference. However my opinion of things has changed as of the last year or so.

You're out of your mind regarding mb2_duel_kamino, I can easily show you a video or screenshots comparing it to how it is now. Most obvious is Slave 1 being black, and I know many people with this issue so this isn't a "me" thing. MB2_duel_revan has white materials on parts of the bridge controls. The stairs on mb2_duel_cc have a white glare to them instead of the old orange. Someone broke shaders somewhere.

 

[Valkyrie]

You're out of your mind regarding mb2_duel_kamino, I can easily show you a video or screenshots comparing it to how it is now. Most obvious is Slave 1 being black, and I know many people with this issue so this isn't a "me" thing. MB2_duel_revan has white materials on parts of the bridge controls. The stairs on mb2_duel_cc have a white glare to them instead of the old orange. Someone broke shaders somewhere.

Can you show screenshots

 

[yle yatarn.]

Most obvious is Slave 1 being black,

I can take this so out of context

 

[YamThePrussian]

I suggest re-adding the instant-grip feature and ability to grip your teammates.

The best post in this thread.
MBII WILL die if this does not happen. My previous sentence should be interpreted as a threat.