Reaching for Balance

[Astori]

I hope the Developers find this useful in their search for acceptable balance:

Jedi

• Pull (Its punishing window is too short. Push is a good example of punishing window.)
• Pull and Push with 1.5 sec cooldown. (People spam it which destroys balance of the game since PULL highjacks your weapons and PUSH turns you into a sitting duck).
• Saber range (It might be due to latency that most of us have. I do get that saber functions in the same way like lasers.

E.G: A shoulder popping out of a cover. You hit it with a sniper , and that player is down to 1 HP or dead. I think the same applies to sabers.
E.G: You get scraped by the tip of a saber, and the game calculates it as if you were properly sliced. Hence shortening the saber-range might make it all more balanced).

Mando

• EE-3 sniper mode damage could be enhanced. It is the weakest, and most unreliable, sniper in the game.
• FUEL lasts for 57 seconds in total. Could it last for 1:10 min?
• Ammo. Hero / BH have snipers and blasters. Mando`s EE-3 rifle shares ammo for a regular and sniper mode. Could it have more ammo for like 3-4 more snipes?
• Could you make a separate button for starting jet-pack?

(It can happen quite often that,when you try to start jet-pack, you can get PULLED or PUSHED since the same button is for JUMP and starting-up jet-pack).

Hero

• This is only in case DODGE gets removed.

Could Hero Class have a jet-boots like the one that Cad Bane had in "Star Wars: Clone Wars" ?
It would add survivability to Hero Class. (If I understood it correctly. you can get PUSHED during a DASH. I apologize if this proves to be incorrect statement.)
LINK:
https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.ne...wer-HFZ.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110926235137


Upgrade:

• Changing a red-dot for a scope.

I suggest something like this. I hope you can come up with something far more star wars-y in case you dislike the given suggestions.
Links:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....148/2FE5568B17C95E3E78BE6FE1E702D575DDC8B49B/

http://c8.alamy.com/comp/HGHX1H/red-target-cross-hair-HGHX1H.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/...VypnN0ffowdtaynWL3pIpEPIE3Gb0DEodwrbeHGlj4A1g

• Movement.

Someone ( I think it was Another White Name) has suggested that reducing player`s movement speed might bring balance to gunners. In case this suggestion is acceptable, I think reducing movement by 10% could be tested and see how it works out.


***NOTE
This Feedback is written from Self-reliant point of view. Some Classes have stronger survivability than the others; therefore, in the hands of veteran players, it might become quite imbalanced game.

/respect /love for the game-developers. Your devotion and knowledge (craft of programming) is appreciated and cherished. I sincerely hope this becomes useful to you during your journey.

 

[Crusade010]

Mando

• EE-3 sniper mode damage could be enhanced. It is the weakest, and most unreliable, sniper in the game.

:IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

 

[Gumba]

For how long have you been playing?

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Disagree on reducing Push/Pull spam potential, but I do agree that the punish window for Pull should match that of Push.

Saber range is very much fine and it is very easy to evade the poorly planned out attacks.

EE3 is a really powerful sniper. It does not require any changes. It feels powerful to use, but still requires skill for perfect execution.

As for rocket boots, something like that would take away from the unique factor of Mandalorians, which in turn isn't a cool notion.

Dash is a very strong evasive utility and being knocked down while doing so gives it at least some drawbacks, as it is a very strong anti-sith tool.

 

[Pepsi]

If you want to have same punish window for Pull - you need to enlarge the range of it. But it's already balanced by it's cost imo.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Really cool and amazing suggestions, I will contact Achilles so he can add them to his "MB2 Manifesto"

 

[Luna]

If you want to have same punish window for Pull - you need to enlarge the range of it. But it's already balanced by it's cost imo.

you mean reduce?

anyway loled at ee-3 being the weakest, unreliable sniper gun in the game

 

[RC-Delta]

I choked on my food at EE-3

I mean you could also walk when you're pulled. You only have to hold one button.
Imo the pull punish time is fine if you have quick reactions or bait it or somethin. I killed some dudes on deathstar cause they spammed pull so /shrug

 

[Astori]

Mando

• EE-3 sniper mode damage could be enhanced. It is the weakest, and most unreliable, sniper in the game.

:IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

Respect, Crusade010

PROJ rifle = instant death
Arc Trooper gun (with sniper mode) = hits hard. Its lasers are fast.

EE3= There is 50% of chance for a target to survive when it is being hit by EE-3 sniper.

You might have been hitting wounded targets. You might have been landing headshots. I am talking about a target in motion that is full hp; let alone having a full armor.

E.G Wookie.
Proj Rifle headshot can kill wookie in one shot. (I have done this a lot of times)
EE-3 sniper = You need 2 headshtos to kill a wookie .

"You have two shots" !
I do understand. Do you not think it is quite a challenge to hit someone two times with a sniper? I am talking about target being in motion, let alone alone landing a headshot.


P.S

EE-3 = Close-range and Mid-range sniper.
(Yes, you can eliminate your target form a long-range if target is being a frozen pacifist typing toxic content in the chat).

Test shooting with EE-3 then Projectile rifle.
EE-3 will shoot a bit around the red-dot.
Projectile rifle will shoot exactly where the red-dot was.
That is what I mean by unreliable (including targets surviving a snipe).

Projectile Rifle = Long range and Mid-range sniper.

 

[Astori]

For how long have you been playing?

Respect, Gumba.

I have been playing for around 2 years.

 

[Astori]

I choked on my food at EE-3

I mean you could also walk when you're pulled. You only have to hold one button.
Imo the pull punish time is fine if you have quick reactions or bait it or somethin. I killed some dudes on deathstar cause they spammed pull so /shrug

Respect, CB-Delta

You can walk , but Jedi / Sith will hunt down the gap in-between you. The Push / Pull (especially PULL by far) being constantly spammed , not only that it closes the gap ASAP, but it completely dismantles a fighting chance becuase the punishing time is almost non-existant. Uncontroling wild-saber swinging (Jedi tanking shots) follows with exceeded range.

(NOTE: I am talking about having a fighting chance not winning by holding one button and shooting Jedi / Sith to death).

You can have quick reactions but latency eats a tiny portion of it , especially when punishing-window is too short.

Reffering to Jedi / Sith you have killed:
What was their skill level?
I am under an imrpession they were walking straight at you, PUSH-ing and PULL-ing while you were shooting.

I refer to veteran players who purposefully abuse game-mechancis knowing well enough how to fight each class.

It is about requirements that are needed to be met for the goal to be achieved.
And when a PULL spammer is zig-zagging around, narrowing your gap while being able to tank a few shots with constant PULL spam then he is dismissing the balance rather easily. Gunner`s main self-defense against a saber-wielder is maintaining a distance.

How can it be maintained when you walk backwards while the target rushes at you?
(Walking backward is slower than running in front of yourself)
Then comes the PULL SPAM then saber -range. It is enough for any saber-wielder to slice from left-to-right to cover a lot of space. It is enough for the tip of their saber to touch the gunner and the game is over. This process repeats non-stop (just like I might have repeated myself a few times becuase it is how it is).

 

[Astori]

Disagree on reducing Push/Pull spam potential, but I do agree that the punish window for Pull should match that of Push.

Saber range is very much fine and it is very easy to evade the poorly planned out attacks.

EE3 is a really powerful sniper. It does not require any changes. It feels powerful to use, but still requires skill for perfect execution.

As for rocket boots, something like that would take away from the unique factor of Mandalorians, which in turn isn't a cool notion.

Dash is a very strong evasive utility and being knocked down while doing so gives it at least some drawbacks, as it is a very strong anti-sith tool.

Respect, GoodOl'Ben

I appreciate your informative and respectful feedback.

• Saber range is very much fine and it is very easy to evade the poorly planned out attacks.

This is true if we refer to a predictable player (a new player).
Most people want to win , therefore, they will do all it takes to win including abusing game-mechanics. That tip of the saber is what lands the most of kills when fighting an experienced gunner.

• EE3 is a really powerful sniper. It does not require any changes. It feels powerful to use, but still requires skill for perfect execution.

Having a fast reload, or being able to shot two-times, is not the same as hitting a target in motion. Those are two different worlds. It is far more of a challenge to hit a moving target two times in a row than to hit it only once (projectile rifle) and feel rewarded for your good "game-reading" abilities.

• As for rocket boots, something like that would take away from the unique factor of Mandalorians, which in turn isn't a cool notion.

The same idea has crossed my mind. I do agree with you on this one. However, the same perception can be applied to "projectile rifle". Both Hero Class and Bounty-Hunter Class have it. The same can be applied to grenades. Hero Class is highly dependable on a teamwork. Bounty-Hunter Class can play both sides ; being a lone-ranger and team-support.
Which leads us to Dash.

• Dash is a very strong evasive utility and being knocked down while doing so gives it at least some drawbacks, as it is a very strong anti-sith tool.

I understand your point of view.
Is it a that strong special ability when it can be discarded rather easily with a single PUSH ? (Let alone if it gets into the spamming mode).
(Keep it on your mind please that you can PULL and PUSH then hop-away. You can Dash in four directions, and it is not so much of a challenge to read when Dash is to happen).
Does not Sith have the lighting with quite a range on it?
Dash has a "cool-down", the saber has quite a range. The Gap is instantly gone. (combine lighting + saber-wielding + push vs Dash).

I always try to consider both sides. The most importantly, I try to take in consideration two-players of the similar skill level. Many people give an example, without being aware for the most of time, about an experienced player vs a new player. If every Sith or Jedi is to walk straight-in-front, and cast his abilities then no changes are ever needed because all the gunner has to do is to keep shooting straight in front of itself.

In the end it is about meeting requirements that lead to achieving a desired and powerful goal. If requirements are easy to be met, and the goal remains effective then the balance clacks to one side. Most of people will tend to that imbalanced side. The result is that entire community suffers because the skill is "bought".
It is one of many explanations why servers are having "useless Sith / Jedi". One of many reasons behind it might be that all they care, and want to see, are those letters that state "You Killed <name>".


NOTE: As time moves on, we all should upgrade as individuals. The same applies to the game. This is the healthy challenge for The Developers. It is how they grow in their craft of programming (one of many ways at least).

 

[Crusade010]

If you aren't at full health the EE-3 will kill you, Dunno why I'm commenting really since I don't even play anymore lol

 

[Astori]

If you aren't at full health the EE-3 will kill you, Dunno why I'm commenting really since I don't even play anymore lol

Respect, Crusade010

Your love for MB2 is too stronk ^^

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

As time moves on, we all should upgrade as individuals

Yeah, considering you have been playing for 2 years, it's about time you upgraded your jedi/sith fighting skills.

It honestly feels like you are trolling. EE-3 does 100 base damage per snipe. Is that not good enough for you? Of course it doesn't 1-shot everybody because it would be broken as hell. And that's why you have a second shot to spare. If you are accurate, you can actually 1-shot headshot 2 people with 1 magazine, which isn't possible with proj.

As for push, it leaves the saberist open for 2 seconds. Fair enough I think. Pull doesn't, but it has shorter range, no AoE, costs more points and is useless vs grenades.

This thread really just seems like someone has a big l2p issue.

 

[Alteran]

While I personally think mando is weak in a number of ways that any class with 1 life shouldn't be (long af knockdown time with no ability to get up or fight back (MAKE WRIST LASER USABLE WHILE KNOCKED DOWN))

The EE-3 Sniper mode is certainly not one of those reasons, it is one of the few redeeming traits mando has over all other classes, certainly wouldn't say it needs buffing.

 

[Astori]

While I personally think mando is weak in a number of ways that any class with 1 life shouldn't be (long af knockdown time with no ability to get up or fight back (MAKE WRIST LASER USABLE WHILE KNOCKED DOWN))

The EE-3 Sniper mode is certainly not one of those reasons, it is one of the few redeeming traits mando has over all other classes, certainly wouldn't say it needs buffing.

Respect, Alteran.

I appreciate your informative and respectful feedback.

I would like to add "(MAKE WRIST LASER USABLE WHILE KNOCKED DOWN))" to my suggestion post about making an in-game balance if that is alright with you.

 

[jango40]

Pull definitely does not need a shorter punish window, it already has got so many disadvantages compared to push.

 

[Dra-Gon]

Astori, I'm sorry to say but this is just you being a noob at this.

The Push / Pull (especially PULL by far) being constantly spammed , not only that it closes the gap ASAP, but it completely dismantles a fighting chance becuase the punishing time is almost non-existant.

They cannot constantly spam force powers, because they do not have high enough FP regen to do that. They can at best spam Pull I think 5 times in a row and then they are completely without FP. No FP equals no ability to block shots. If you can land shots while he is pushing/pulling, you further drain his FP, so you reduce it to 4 times at best. Spamming it this many times is also pretty unusual, as they are basically left defenseless. So drop it to 3 times in a row.

The only issue here are saber styles. Cyan is basically impossible to dodge, staff on the other hand deflects shots even on empty FP, which is buggy and annoying.

I refer to veteran players who purposefully abuse game-mechancis knowing well enough how to fight each class.

That is simply called experience, not game-mechanic abuse. Knowing when to use your abilities and predicting an enemy is a basic to any PvP. Just because a new player is having hard time is in no way a reason to punish players who went through the same "newbie" phase, but improved themselves.

Gunner`s main self-defense against a saber-wielder is maintaining a distance.

Not really. IIRC gunner needs to maintain a "healthy" distance for IDR (increased drain range)

PROJ rifle = instant death
Arc Trooper gun (with sniper mode) = hits hard. Its lasers are fast.

EE3= There is 50% of chance for a target to survive when it is being hit by EE-3 sniper.

That's a good finding. These different parameters are also a reason why all three classes do not have projectile rifle, but different weapons. Also, I cannot stress how many times I shot a jedi in the back with PR and he survived. PR's base damage is 150.

Having a fast reload, or being able to shot two-times, is not the same as hitting a target in motion. Those are two different worlds.

Well, duh.

It is far more of a challenge to hit a moving target two times in a row than to hit it only once (projectile rifle)

That is assuming that the target can survive the first shot. Maybe you should stop shooting the arm/leg area where the target takes the least damage? Also, Hero and BH with full shield can tank a projectile rifle shot. Clones with full armor can too, not to mention ARCs and mandos.
In that case, 2 landed shots that you can fire in succession is far more valueable than 1 shot from PR.

I do agree with you on this one. However, the same perception can be applied to "projectile rifle". Both Hero Class and Bounty-Hunter Class have it. The same can be applied to grenades.

No, that perception cannot be applied to projectile rifle. There are unique abilities and weapons around which the class is built. For mandalorians, it is definitely jetpack. It's not only mandalorian, for example SBDs are centered around battery management.

Is it a that strong special ability when it can be discarded rather easily with a single PUSH ? (Let alone if it gets into the spamming mode).

It can't be discarded with push. Also, you can dash while walking.

(Keep it on your mind please that you can PULL and PUSH then hop-away. You can Dash in four directions, and it is not so much of a challenge to read when Dash is to happen).

I dare you to try fighting Gumba (with his dashing Porkins) as a Sith. You know he will dash the moment you try to strike, but you cannot be on the defensive, else he will simply drain your FP in a matter of seconds.

Dash has a "cool-down", the saber has quite a range. The Gap is instantly gone. (combine lighting + saber-wielding + push vs Dash).

You cannot use all three at the same time, tho. Using lightning applies a rather long cooldown on other force powers, so you can safely run away to make a bit of distance.


Instead of thinking how to improve the game, did you give a real long thought on how to improve yourself? Perhaps try to play as the class you think you are so weak against. It's the fastest way to learn how that class works and so you can way more easily find out how to counter it.

Or watch other players.

 

[RC-Delta]

Respect, CB-Delta

You can walk , but Jedi / Sith will hunt down the gap in-between you. The Push / Pull (especially PULL by far) being constantly spammed , not only that it closes the gap ASAP, but it completely dismantles a fighting chance becuase the punishing time is almost non-existant. Uncontroling wild-saber swinging (Jedi tanking shots) follows with exceeded range.

(NOTE: I am talking about having a fighting chance not winning by holding one button and shooting Jedi / Sith to death).

You can have quick reactions but latency eats a tiny portion of it , especially when punishing-window is too short.

Reffering to Jedi / Sith you have killed:
What was their skill level?
I am under an imrpession they were walking straight at you, PUSH-ing and PULL-ing while you were shooting.

I refer to veteran players who purposefully abuse game-mechancis knowing well enough how to fight each class.

It is about requirements that are needed to be met for the goal to be achieved.
And when a PULL spammer is zig-zagging around, narrowing your gap while being able to tank a few shots with constant PULL spam then he is dismissing the balance rather easily. Gunner`s main self-defense against a saber-wielder is maintaining a distance.

How can it be maintained when you walk backwards while the target rushes at you?
(Walking backward is slower than running in front of yourself)
Then comes the PULL SPAM then saber -range. It is enough for any saber-wielder to slice from left-to-right to cover a lot of space. It is enough for the tip of their saber to touch the gunner and the game is over. This process repeats non-stop (just like I might have repeated myself a few times becuase it is how it is).

I can't give you exact rankings but they were good enough to stay positive.
Also, Wtf, you have to have decent timing to push someone in dash and the like. Also everyone has said what I wanted to say. Guess I'm too late to party. ):