Perspective from a new player

[{Δ} Achilles]

So I spent a while playing the mod, I haven't played JKJA itself for quite some time, so I was highly interested in it. As a competitive Chivalry MW/DW player, for quite some time, I decided to try and apply what I've known.

(Yes, I know I'm new, however I believe my opinion does make a difference, as I do have significant experience in competitive melee-style games, and I can understand the design choices)

The blaster play, and movement is amazing, the force powers are also amazing (if weirdly imbalanced)... however the saber combat?

Feels absolutely terrible. It is difficult to even see what you're doing, or if you even have had a major effect. I used all of the styles, and it seems like Red is incredibly strong compared to the others. I'll break down the issues in as short as I can

Saber combat feels stale, and feels like a trading match where each player takes turns with a combo, and the one who did the most stamina break, wins. Occasionally winning by way of knockdown. Does not feel fluid or fun at all. Not to mention, I found that I can (using Chivalry footwork) make a Jedi/Sith opponent miss 10, 20, 30 times in a row, but there is literally no way to take advantage of making them swing like fools. If I dodge their attack, and attempt to punish, I am immediately met with them blocking, and if they are using red style, I lose BP. Which recovers incredibly slowly, I might add.

Against multiple opponents, it feels like I'm just trying to trick one into a quick kill, or praying that they kill each other.

For those who haven't played Mount and Blade, or Chivalry: Mount and Blade is incredibly direction based, and Chivalry is incredibly timing based (Unless you have a shield, which uses a similar stamina feature to what MBII was going for, methinks).

I honestly believe the block, should only occur when using the block button, and it should only work for a short time, and if you attack while holding block as the opponent's saber connects, you should be able to stagger them slightly. The BP system should be there to keep people from swinging like idiots, and you should lose BP as you miss attacks, similar to Chivalry. I believe that would work significantly better. Either that, or make attacking expose yourself significantly more, and for longer.

Balance it like a fighting game. If I block your saber, I get +4 frame advantage, and you either block, or you eat a 4 frame faster attack than yours. Blocking and Attacking should be two separate entities in a video game, not simultaneous, and then adding stamina ontop of that. It isn't realistic enough to merit such a system.

Another issue with Saber, is the deflection is flawed in a couple of ways, giving anyone with a blaster a supreme advantage over a single Jedi/Sith target. It takes an incredibly long time for a Jedi/Sith to recover from a failed push. I'd argue 2 competent Commandos are literally impossible to beat as a Sith/Jedi. Bottom line, blasters fire waaaaaay too quickly to be balanced, and this rapid fire lends them to be incredibly strong against melee-type units *EXCEPT* Wookies/SBDs, who appear blatantly overpowered anyway.

On a side note, why is Lightning so bad? If you force push lightning a gunner, and he happened to walk at just the right time, you simply die. You can't recover fast enough to zap him, and I have instances where I manage to land the lightning push, then use the FULL force bar, and still not kill the opponent... Really quite a terrible power.



inb4 git gud u suk u must be bad, as a typical community response.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I'm sorry. I'm going to have to agree with everyone here. 12 hours is no where near enough to understand the mechanics of this game. You're way to new to be talking about how something is "broken." Every class has its own strength and weaknesses. It's up to you if you want to continue to learn and play or drop the mod. It's one thing to come on the forums requesting assistance on how to beat different classes. It's another to say the mod is at fault for your bad gameplay.

So the mod is at fault for seeing skilled Sith/Jedi players die by droves to skilled Gunner players? I fully understand how this system works, practice is something completely different. I picked up Chivalry within a few minutes on how it works, it merely took a few months to master and become one of the top 10 players. However, my issue with this mod, is how enormous the disparity between classes are in difficulty, but not reward. I managed to kill 14 Jedi in a *row* as a droideka, on my first time. Some of them were highly competent duelists that I couldn't beat with my saber.

Then, I managed to kill 4 sith in a row, 2 at once, with a Clone Commando class, or RC3 or whatever they are called.

 

[Preston]

Okay 12 hours, I think the case is closed. Pack your bags boys. Joking aside, it doesnt matter how many combay games you have played in the past, mb2 is different than pretty much any other game. Also yes it is possible to balance the classes cause they are balanced. 12 hours is nothing in mb2 land. I consider under 6 months in this game new at the game. You litteraly can not tell if this game is balanced in 12 hours let alone a couple of months. Its just not possible. Now I understand why you are having such a tough time. And pblocking again has nothing to do with gunners, its about perfect blocking another saberists attack and draining no bp. And yes a jedi can take on like 5 gunners if he/she is good enough at the game. Same goes for a gunner vs 5 jedi/sith. And when you say forever as in 12 hours to figure out something thats kind of laughable. It takes people years to understand lots of the stuff in this game. This game has tons of depth and a huge skill gap. I have over 3,000 hours in mb2 and have been playing for 6 years and I still dont know lots of stuff in this game. You simply cant play for 12 hours and understand the games balance, it takes much more time than that. And gunners have respawn for balance. If jedi had respawn it would be ridiculously over powerd that its not even funny. And pblocking is actually quite easy and again still has nothing to do with gunners.

 

[Preston]

So the mod is at fault for seeing skilled Sith/Jedi players die by droves to skilled Gunner players? I fully understand how this system works, practice is something completely different. I picked up Chivalry within a few minutes on how it works, it merely took a few months to master and become one of the top 10 players. However, my issue with this mod, is how enormous the disparity between classes are in difficulty, but not reward. I managed to kill 14 Jedi in a *row* as a droideka, on my first time. Some of them were highly competent duelists that I couldn't beat with my saber.

Then, I managed to kill 4 sith in a row, 2 at once, with a Clone Commando class, or RC3 or whatever they are called.

And how do you know they were highly competitive duelists? What were they "w"swinging after you too? They were probably humble bundlers who didnt know how to color their names. You cant base 12 hours of experience and killing noobs who think theyre a grate jedi on game balance. It doesnt work that way.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

That is the most inane thing I've ever heard. 'It takes years to understand this game', then you must be really bad at understanding. No game takes years to understand. No mod takes years to understand. The limit is simply your potential, and how much depth/time the developers had to put into it. From what I see, there are several mechanics, that I have already figured out, I simply don't have the practice to put them to good use.

Thus, by understanding aspects of how the game works, and by experiencing much of it, and attempting techniques/methods/mechanics, then seeing the difficult of such methods/techniques/mechanics, and applying my experience from many fighting games/sword games, I can determine what is balanced. Obviously I am new, obviously I can't go about annihilating people with ease, unless I'm Droideka/Commando apparently, but my opinion does still count. Shutting yourself out to new views/opinions, and also treating new players like garbage on every single server I joined, does not improve the mod.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

And how do you know they were highly competitive duelists? What were they w swinging after you too?

Because I couldn't get past their block, at all, and they perfect-blocked every one of my combos, obviously, that puts them above me in practice/skill. So I shouldn't have been able to annihilate them so easily with Droideka/Commando/Gunner.

 

[Preston]

And how do you know they were highly competitive duelists? What were they "w" swinging after you too?

That is the most inane thing I've ever heard. 'It takes years to understand this game', then you must be really bad at understanding. No game takes years to understand. No mod takes years to understand. The limit is simply your potential, and how much depth/time the developers had to put into it. From what I see, there are several mechanics, that I have already figured out, I simply don't have the practice to put them to good use.

This game does. Lol to fully understand every aspect and every thing in this game yes it will take years to completely understand and master the depth of this game. This is not some ordinary mod or game. There are things that even player who have been playing for a decade most likely dont know and I could easily show a few that I guarentee not every vet knows.

 

[Preston]

Because I couldn't get past their block, at all, and they perfect-blocked every one of my combos, obviously, that puts them above me in practice/skill. So I shouldn't have been able to annihilate them so easily with Droideka/Commando/Gunner.

That doesnt mean anything. Highly competitive doesnt mean oh i can pblock someones hits. Pblocking is very easy to learn if you are taught. Highly competitive duelist are players who have been playing for a long time, with only 1 certain exception.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

That doesnt mean anything. Highly competitive doesnt mean oh i can pblock someones hits. Pblocking is very easy to learn if you are taught. Highly competitive duelist are players who have been playing for a long time, with only 1 certain exception.

I didn't say competitive. I said 'competent'

So if the game is balanced, how did a 12 hour scrub like me, kill 14 experienced Jedi in a row with Droideka? How did I kill 4 sith in a row, 2 at once, with commando? Is it really balanced?

 

[Preston]

This game does. Lol to filly understand every aspect every thing in this game yes it will take years to completely understand the depth of this game.

I didn't say competitive. I said 'competent'

So if the game is balanced, how did a 12 hour scrub like me, kill 14 experienced Jedi in a row with Droideka? How did I kill 4 sith in a row, 2 at once, with commando? Is it really balanced?

Yes it is really balanced. This game isnt balanced around noobs who dont know how to swing sideways. Droideka is very easily class to play because it is just aim and fire. Noob jedi will have no chance, no matter how many of them there are. Now an experienced player could easily destroy a new player who is a droideka like your self. Sorry to say but yes, besides some very very minor things this game is balanced. You cant base killing noob jedi to balance

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Yes it is really balanced. This game isnt balanced around noobs who dont know how to swing sideways. Droideka is very easily class to play because it is just aim and fire. Noob jedi will have no chance, no matter how many of them there are. Now an experienced player could easily destroy a new player who is a droideka like your self. Sorry to say but yes, besides some very very minor things this game is balanced. You cant base killing noob jedi to balance

And there you go assuming they were scrubs. This is why I despise communities set in their ways, they'll even throw their own kind under the bus to defend their precious mod/game, and they only change when I become strong enough to stomp them relentlessly. I don't have any intention of becoming the best in this game, my only intention is to see it improved overall, so I can take more enjoyment out of it. As far as I'm concerned the community is atrocious, the balance is horrendous between Jedi/Sith and regulars, and saber play is stale. There you go, that is all I'll say on the subject, since no amount of detail seems to convince you.

 

[agentoo8]

I've been playing the game for 11 years, and to this day I still figure out new ways of playing/tips.
Dueling takes an incredibly long time to get to grips with, hence why there are 5 servers dedicated to dueling that are often full of players. This is also why players such as SeV, Sisi, and myself have devoted some of our efforts into making guides on youtube/making the saber system more accessible to new players (in previous patches, it was a lot harder to get used to)

12 hours is not a sufficient amount of time upon which to make such a conclusion.

Without sounding rude; I welcome you to come onto the dueling servers so that you can ascertain whether or not these 'competent duelists' you claim to have met were actually competent.
If you find the saber combat stale, that is because you are looking in the wrong places for an accurate representation of how thoroughly intense and exciting it can be - you are playing in open servers. Come to a dueling server, look around for the big names, and watch them duel: you will retract your statement, I am sure.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I've been playing the game for 11 years, and to this day I still figure out new ways of playing/tips.
Dueling takes an incredibly long time to get to grips with, hence why there are 5 servers dedicated to dueling that are often full of players. This is also why players such as SeV, Sisi, and myself have devoted some of our efforts into making guides on youtube/making the saber system more accessible to new players (in previous patches, it was a lot harder to get used to)

12 hours is not a sufficient amount of time upon which to make such a conclusion.

Without sounding rude; I welcome you to come onto the dueling servers so that you can ascertain whether or not these 'competent duelists' you claim to have met were actually competent.
If you find the saber combat stale, that is because you are looking in the wrong places for an accurate representation of how thoroughly intense and exciting it can be - you are playing in open servers. Come to a dueling server, look around for the big names, and watch them duel: you will retract your statement, I am sure.

I did go onto the dueling servers, and they were quite competent. However the most successful player I witnessed, was a wookie that went around with fists, and 2 hit killed everyone, even tanking saber swings, and then he swapped over to Jedi, and speed-melee'd people. Any reason why fists are so strong as well? Or are they balanced too?

 

[Noob]

That is the most inane thing I've ever heard. 'It takes years to understand this game', then you must be really bad at understanding. No game takes years to understand. No mod takes years to understand.

www.eveonline.com

 

[Preston]

I've been playing the game for 11 years, and to this day I still figure out new ways of playing/tips.
Dueling takes an incredibly long time to get to grips with, hence why there are 5 servers dedicated to dueling that are often full of players. This is also why players such as SeV, Sisi, and myself have devoted some of our efforts into making guides on youtube/making the saber system more accessible to new players (in previous patches, it was a lot harder to get used to)

12 hours is not a sufficient amount of time upon which to make such a conclusion.

Without sounding rude; I welcome you to come onto the dueling servers so that you can ascertain whether or not these 'competent duelists' you claim to have met were actually competent.
If you find the saber combat stale, that is because you are looking in the wrong places for an accurate representation of how thoroughly intense and exciting it can be - you are playing in open servers. Come to a dueling server, look around for the big names, and watch them duel: you will retract your statement, I am sure.

Basically this^ I almost guarentee that I could show someone who has been playing for like 5 years something they dont know about this game, and they could also show me something. This is a very unique game.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

www.eveonline.com

Never played it, however galactic politics are the same as planetary politics, as well as militaristic strategy, and thus does not take years to understand. It is like saying Sim City takes years to understand/master.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Basically this^ I almost guarentee that I could show someone who has been playing for like 5 years something they dont know about this game, and they could also show me something. This is a very unique game.

Then you must not have a very impressive attention span, or you didn't do enough theory crafting. I think a single player offline practice mode would certainly aid with development.

 

[Preston]

I did go onto the dueling servers, and they were quite competent. However the most successful player I witnessed, was a wookie that went around with fists, and 2 hit killed everyone, even tanking saber swings, and then he swapped over to Jedi, and speed-melee'd people. Any reason why fists are so strong as well? Or are they balanced too?

Yes they are balanced too, im sorry but you're really starting to sound extremely ignorant

 

[Noob]

"I've never played it, but I'm going to judge it" I think you are already proving everyone else's points.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Yes they are balanced too, im sorry but you're really starting to sound extremely ignorant

So the ability to outright win a 1v1 almost every time, unless the opponent is using strong style, with fists... no less... is balanced? Have you *ever* played another game, friend? That isn't how balance works.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

"I've never played it, but I'm going to judge it" I think you are already proving everyone else's points.

I didn't judge it. I simply said it doesn't take years to understand. It may take years to become better than other players, but it doesn't take years to understand.

Understanding something, and then having the capacity to implement that knowledge, are two very different things.

I understand how lightning-push works, that doesn't mean I can use it effectively every time. I am going based on their potential, based on what the new players do, the average players do, and the experienced players do.