Perspective from a new player

[{Δ} Achilles]

So I spent a while playing the mod, I haven't played JKJA itself for quite some time, so I was highly interested in it. As a competitive Chivalry MW/DW player, for quite some time, I decided to try and apply what I've known.

(Yes, I know I'm new, however I believe my opinion does make a difference, as I do have significant experience in competitive melee-style games, and I can understand the design choices)

The blaster play, and movement is amazing, the force powers are also amazing (if weirdly imbalanced)... however the saber combat?

Feels absolutely terrible. It is difficult to even see what you're doing, or if you even have had a major effect. I used all of the styles, and it seems like Red is incredibly strong compared to the others. I'll break down the issues in as short as I can

Saber combat feels stale, and feels like a trading match where each player takes turns with a combo, and the one who did the most stamina break, wins. Occasionally winning by way of knockdown. Does not feel fluid or fun at all. Not to mention, I found that I can (using Chivalry footwork) make a Jedi/Sith opponent miss 10, 20, 30 times in a row, but there is literally no way to take advantage of making them swing like fools. If I dodge their attack, and attempt to punish, I am immediately met with them blocking, and if they are using red style, I lose BP. Which recovers incredibly slowly, I might add.

Against multiple opponents, it feels like I'm just trying to trick one into a quick kill, or praying that they kill each other.

For those who haven't played Mount and Blade, or Chivalry: Mount and Blade is incredibly direction based, and Chivalry is incredibly timing based (Unless you have a shield, which uses a similar stamina feature to what MBII was going for, methinks).

I honestly believe the block, should only occur when using the block button, and it should only work for a short time, and if you attack while holding block as the opponent's saber connects, you should be able to stagger them slightly. The BP system should be there to keep people from swinging like idiots, and you should lose BP as you miss attacks, similar to Chivalry. I believe that would work significantly better. Either that, or make attacking expose yourself significantly more, and for longer.

Balance it like a fighting game. If I block your saber, I get +4 frame advantage, and you either block, or you eat a 4 frame faster attack than yours. Blocking and Attacking should be two separate entities in a video game, not simultaneous, and then adding stamina ontop of that. It isn't realistic enough to merit such a system.

Another issue with Saber, is the deflection is flawed in a couple of ways, giving anyone with a blaster a supreme advantage over a single Jedi/Sith target. It takes an incredibly long time for a Jedi/Sith to recover from a failed push. I'd argue 2 competent Commandos are literally impossible to beat as a Sith/Jedi. Bottom line, blasters fire waaaaaay too quickly to be balanced, and this rapid fire lends them to be incredibly strong against melee-type units *EXCEPT* Wookies/SBDs, who appear blatantly overpowered anyway.

On a side note, why is Lightning so bad? If you force push lightning a gunner, and he happened to walk at just the right time, you simply die. You can't recover fast enough to zap him, and I have instances where I manage to land the lightning push, then use the FULL force bar, and still not kill the opponent... Really quite a terrible power.



inb4 git gud u suk u must be bad, as a typical community response.

 

[Preston]

So the ability to outright win a 1v1 almost every time, unless the opponent is using strong style, with fists... no less... is balanced? Have you *ever* played another game, friend? That isn't how balance works.

You have no idea what you're talking about now, and it is really showing. I would stop talking about balance because you just havnt played long enough to realize how easy you can kill a meele wookie.

 

[Preston]

I didn't judge it. I simply said it doesn't take years to understand. It may take years to become better than other players, but it doesn't take years to understand.

Understanding something, and then having the capacity to implement that knowledge, are two very different things.

It takes years to understand everything. This is not like your other games you have played. If you are still here in a couple of years you will come back to this thread and just be laughing at yourself

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

You have to hit trade, and the wookie has significantly higher health than you, and is immune to knockdowns. If his melee will 2 hit kill you, and your saber will 2 hit kill him, and no one can block each other, then it is literally about who can hit faster, correct? Therefore, the Wookie has an advantage, as his attack generally lands faster. Unless you are using blue style, and doing A->dA for the fastest swing possible, which I do not believe is a 2 hit kill on Wookie either.

 

[Noob]

You have to hit trade, and the wookie has significantly higher health than you, and is immune to knockdowns. If his melee will 2 hit kill you, and your saber will 2 hit kill him, and no one can block each other, then it is literally about who can hit faster, correct? Therefore, the Wookie has an advantage, as his attack generally lands faster.

Wookiees can be countered with red style. It is a 1 hit kill

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Wookiees can be countered with red style. It is a 1 hit kill

No, they cannot, because a good Wookie, as I witnessed, can easily out maneuver a red swing, and they hit significantly faster, and appear to have a form of hit stun.

You balance a game on mathematics, and you people seem to have an idea of the balance as some mystical space entity created an infinitely in depth mod, to which no one can master, as it requires wisdom of the gods. That isn't how games work.

 

[Preston]

You have to hit trade, and the wookie has significantly higher health than you, and is immune to knockdowns. If his melee will 2 hit kill you, and your saber will 2 hit kill him, and no one can block each other, then it is literally about who can hit faster, correct? Therefore, the Wookie has an advantage, as his attack generally lands faster. Unless you are using blue style, and doing A->dA for the fastest swing possible, which I do not believe is a 2 hit kill on Wookie either.

I just being honest dude, this thread is starting to get really laughable lol

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I just being honest dude, this thread is starting to get really laughable lol

So then use the English language, which I'm assuming you have some what of a grip of, and explain to me why I'm wrong, using statistics and details, that make sense. I can explain to you how a fighting game is balanced based on frame data, move lists, and damage. Why can you not show me that for this amazing in-depth game?

I really want this mod to be as in-depth as you're saying, but honestly it seems like you're just slobbering all over it aimlessly.

 

[Puppytine]

I use it a lot and I find it alright, what I kinda dislike though is, that you are so obvious of having a grip even before you lock it.

That's great, but I just didn't see lot of people like you, who use grip. Dunno, maybe it's just me, maybe they are really few.

I'd probably make it more powerful in form of HP drain

It also can be buffed by lowing cost of points.

How much fp does it drain, because from my experience with fighting deflect.
They manage to kill me almost every single time even with group fire or not.
And I just stop shooting because I would die in a few hits and forced to wait for them to spam force powers or get close to me.

Strange, really. Arcs and clones empty my fp each and every time I try to get something useful from deflecting, though I need more practice on other gunner classes.

I didn't say competitive. I said 'competent'

So if the game is balanced, how did a 12 hour scrub like me, kill 14 experienced Jedi in a row with Droideka? How did I kill 4 sith in a row, 2 at once, with commando? Is it really balanced?

You will not get any results by arguing the way you do it now. Most people here,, myself including believe jedi/sith are balanced to other classes, more or less, so there is no need to radical buff, only fine tune.

If you really want make some changes, you have the only one way: keep playing gunners. Be best. Annoy people as hard as you can with your superior. Then people who prefer jedi will start complaining about they can't do anything against you, so developers will be forced to improve jedi for that level so it would be possible to defeat you.

 

[Preston]

So then use the English language, which I'm assuming you have some what of a grip of, and explain to me why I'm wrong, using statistics and details, that make sense. I can explain to you how a fighting game is balanced based on frame data, move lists, and damage. Why can you not show me that for this amazing in-depth game?

I really want this mod to be as in-depth as you're saying, but honestly it seems like you're just slobbering all over it aimlessly.

Because I cant write out years of experience and depth an tactics. I am literally showing people this thread on steam just to make them laugh.

 

[Supa]

Before you guys carry on with your argument, keep in mind that the mod has seen a huge surge in new players over the last 2 or 3 weeks. These players shouldn't be used to judge the balance of the game. If you guys want to continue discussing this, do it rationally and appropriately.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Because I cant write out years of experience and depth an tactics. I am literally showing people this thread on steam just to make them laugh.

So you cannot explain to me, a mod, for a 10+ year old game, in terms of balance/statistics. Did I some how download 50 terrabytes of data? Is it that difficult to explain basic mechanics developed by human beings? Is it a mystery?

For someone with years of experience, you seem to have about as much knowledge of the game as my 12 hour ass, only you're being a dick about it.

 

[Chorb]

Wookies are not as unbalanced as you think. Wookie will need a knockback and 4-5 melle hits to kill a sith. You can two shot him whit yellow in the time it takes him to land one punch. Red and Purple one shot anything, yellow, staff and duals will two/three shot them whit combos. Also red can use 3 hit "missed" combos vs wookies, and then they become a lot harder to dodge. You arent taking into consideration how fast combod swings are. And crouch completly prevents wookie knockback. Crouch and combo him.

 

[Preston]

So you cannot explain to me, a mod, for a 10+ year old game, in terms of balance/statistics. Did I some how download 50 terrabytes of data? Is it that difficult to explain basic mechanics developed by human beings? Is it a mystery?

For someone with years of experience, you seem to have about as much knowledge of the game as my 12 hour ass, only you're being a dick about it.

End of discussion, I don't feel the need to continue this argument with someone who just got the game and is being very ignorant. And by the way, counter a Wookie with yellow style 2 hit kill by keep distance. you ran at least as fast as a Wookie as a Jedi and you have a lightsaber. Use it to your advantage and use the reach of it, its longer than a Wookies fists and you can swing and move at the same time. you can kill a melee Wookie without taking 1 hp of damage if you play you the Sith class correctly and utilize it properly.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Wookies are not as unbalanced as you think. Wookie will need a knockback and 4-5 melle hits to kill a sith. You can two shot him whit yellow in the time it takes him to land one punch. Red and Purple one shot anything, yellow, staff and duals will two/three shot them whit combos. Also red can use 3 hit "missed" combos vs wookies, and then they become a lot harder to dodge. You arent taking into consideration how fast combod swings are. And crouch completly prevent wookie knockback. Crouch and combo him.

Jesus Christ, a miracle. Someone that can actually explain something. Now we can actually discuss balance, rather than watch vets fling their dicks around.

Now, are you positive it is 4-5 melee hits to kill a sith? Because I was killed in exactly 2, almost every time. Does knockdown state increase damage?

 

[Preston]

Jesus Christ, a miracle. Someone that can actually explain something. Now we can actually discuss balance, rather than watch vets fling their dicks around.

Now, are you positive it is 4-5 melee hits to kill a sith? Because I was killed in exactly 2, almost every time. Does knockdown state increase damage?

4 hits to kill a sith, knock down does not increase damage.

 

[Supa]

It definitely takes more than 2 punches from a wookiee to kill a Sith. Fury is a different story, I'm pretty sure that only takes two. And to correct saber damage against wookiees, at the moment only red is capable of killing a wookiee in a single swing. Purple had it's damage reduced to 350 IIRC.

 

[Chorb]

Speaking from experiance, it feels around that ammount. I will have to run a test to confirm it. I always have time to jump out of knockback and kill the wookie if he does a mad rush on me. When knocked down press spacebar and not movement keys. Its a lot faster than others getups.

 

[andrew]

achilles your arrogance is actually astounding

you act as if because you're good at other games, you're somehow a game design genius that can accurately pinpoint every mechanical flaw a game has. ah yes, if daigo started dueling in mb2 he'd be able to fully understand it in 12 hours because hes amazing at fighting games!

even if you're able to accurately comprehend game mechanics its legitimately laughable to think you have the necessary perspective to assess other players ability. you have no frame of reference for how good a player is at the moment, and yet you're basing so much of your conjecture off of what a "competent" player can do. you dont even know what a competent player is

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

It definitely takes more than 2 punches from a wookiee to kill a Sith. Fury is a different story, I'm pretty sure that only takes two. And to correct saber damage against wookiees, at the moment only red is capable of killing a wookiee in a single swing. Purple had it's damage reduced to 350 IIRC.

Hmm, so if a Wookie utilizes fury, then you're essentially screwed, as a Jedi/Sith?

 

[andrew]

jump