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Well obviously you can't control it on a host level. It would be impossible. (As far as I can tell its some sort of DLL injecting) But the launchers current "Anti-Cheat" is a joke.
(MUST SEE) Argorn cheat proof.
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im not a duel guy so i don't know but from what i've been told it's easy to spot pb and swingblock cheats. i'm not saying server hosts should detect cheats with their own software, im saying spectate people who get reported for cheating and ban them if they are
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I would appreciate an internal MBII report feature, with auto-demo saving. Something similar to how CS:GO has peer review of demos to determine if false reporting. And as much as I hate to say, I think the idea of linking forum accounts had been in discussion at one point.
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I'd rather the devs focused on developing the game with what little dev time/power they have. As qwerty said, server admins need to take responsibility and pull out the banhammer when (and only when) it's obvious.
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Yes, server admins need to do their part. But things do get blocked. Anti-cheat software is not easy to develop, and must be constantly updated. Its a losing battle no matter how well resourced the developer is. We do our best.
Hessu
Internal Beta Team
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seen a screenshot of him using it against argorn
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1 - Dont make x200 zoom and send the full discord conversation where you refuse to have a serious discussion with me, using only vague phrases (as everyone can see, something really weird in you indeed) and end up ignoring me.
2 - Stop making your own nosense conclussions, you are only looking like a fool (not unexpected tho) this is not drama and not everytime someone is against you is jealous, and more considering everyone on our scene is dodging and disliking you, im just the one from that group that wanted to project you to everyone and prevent new players from you.
3 - Take a look at the dictionary because apparently you dont know what hipocrisy means, i said you are APPARENTLY one of the bests on EU, this is a fact and nobody can deny that, like the fact that you are also a hacker and bug exploiter; if i had the same devices as you, modesty aside, I (actually, all of the top tier players) wouldnt be one of the bests but actually in another league.
4 - I got my original exposs thread locked and deleted because of toxicity, i remade it to make it polite and right after it, this riffraff gets the toxicity back and doesnt even get a warning 🤦♂️
5 - There is no point in defending yourself, as i said, it came to a point where it is so obvious that your arguments (if you can count these words as an argument and not what a 13 year old would say on an Internet fight) become unvalid. Not only your clan leader admited that you used cheats, but you, yourself admitted it, just stop it and stop ruinning the shame you apparently lack of.
6 - Re-add me on discord, hit me up om video call and say that stuff to me rather than on a random alias, whose identity was known at the first minutes, coward.
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The community is already pretty scarce but maybe it's time to implement some harsher methods in dealing with cheaters. I'll offer a few suggestions.
1) Create a unique key tied to the client. Create a PHP script on the website here to verify the key when the user loads into the server browser. If the key is banned then deny them the server browser request and for fun simply close their client.
2) Similar to option 1 - make a forum tie in to the server browser (This will lower the general population in the game). Have people register on the forums... that account contains their login, etc. Use it on the launcher client. Anybody affected by it can go to the forums to verify that they were unfairly banned, etc. You'll also see a ton of burner accounts being signed up, haha, but you can match IP's to login dates and the likes and go through it how you'd like.
Let's say you don't want to utilize this sort of methodology then simply make new verification methods in the code to guarantee whether it is happening or not (Like a PB for example). In addition simply roll out with new variables / algorithmic changes once a month for specific tasks. I don't actually know how the MB2 framework is written so I don't know what is left to the server and what is left to the client in particular.
If MB2 Servers stores (Per game session/round) BP, HP, Ammo, Force etc then you'll have an easier time authenticating some of these variables. If most of it is left to the client? Then yeah it's going to be in some trouble.
So how would the server be able to verify something the client has done? Well... this part is tricky. If the client tells the server it has received a PB then right now it probably just believes it under any circumstance. However, in addition to having a PB performed make a new method that randomizes between some hashed data that the server stores per game session. Each game session it is randomized and each client effectively pulls that data in automatically and for every PB swing it will send two methods. When the PB happens send the hashed key of some sort to verify it is authentic. Is this perfect? By no means. All it takes to break is to literally debug the client/packet sniff what data is going in and out. However, the randomization per session can alleviate it alot... and at the very least make it more difficult to pin down - especially if it's requests are randomized; meaning it doesn't always need the verification key so it'll be easier to spot cheaters trying to dupe the system.
I already know people will complain about these suggestion but frankly if there are cheaters around I am just not interested in playing. I know there will always be cheaters but i'm not really keen on weeding them out manually.
Hopefully you guys are able to pin this problem down. Best of luck guys.
1) Create a unique key tied to the client. Create a PHP script on the website here to verify the key when the user loads into the server browser. If the key is banned then deny them the server browser request and for fun simply close their client.
2) Similar to option 1 - make a forum tie in to the server browser (This will lower the general population in the game). Have people register on the forums... that account contains their login, etc. Use it on the launcher client. Anybody affected by it can go to the forums to verify that they were unfairly banned, etc. You'll also see a ton of burner accounts being signed up, haha, but you can match IP's to login dates and the likes and go through it how you'd like.
Let's say you don't want to utilize this sort of methodology then simply make new verification methods in the code to guarantee whether it is happening or not (Like a PB for example). In addition simply roll out with new variables / algorithmic changes once a month for specific tasks. I don't actually know how the MB2 framework is written so I don't know what is left to the server and what is left to the client in particular.
If MB2 Servers stores (Per game session/round) BP, HP, Ammo, Force etc then you'll have an easier time authenticating some of these variables. If most of it is left to the client? Then yeah it's going to be in some trouble.
So how would the server be able to verify something the client has done? Well... this part is tricky. If the client tells the server it has received a PB then right now it probably just believes it under any circumstance. However, in addition to having a PB performed make a new method that randomizes between some hashed data that the server stores per game session. Each game session it is randomized and each client effectively pulls that data in automatically and for every PB swing it will send two methods. When the PB happens send the hashed key of some sort to verify it is authentic. Is this perfect? By no means. All it takes to break is to literally debug the client/packet sniff what data is going in and out. However, the randomization per session can alleviate it alot... and at the very least make it more difficult to pin down - especially if it's requests are randomized; meaning it doesn't always need the verification key so it'll be easier to spot cheaters trying to dupe the system.
I already know people will complain about these suggestion but frankly if there are cheaters around I am just not interested in playing. I know there will always be cheaters but i'm not really keen on weeding them out manually.
Hopefully you guys are able to pin this problem down. Best of luck guys.
Karus
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He said Argorn was one of the best duelists in MBII, so he wanted to duel him.
If you haven't been living under a rock for the last 6 months, you'd know Argorn has been actively egoboosting by recruiting new players for his Jedaii clan.
Those players spread lies, that he's really good, because they don't know he's cheating.
That's why Aizen said what he said - because part of the community have been claiming that Argorn is really good at dueling.
This is also a big reason why many of the more skilled players have a problem with him; not just tjhe fact that he's cheating, but also because it's misleading new members of the community.
I'm shocked I had to explain that, but w/e.
Enjoy your day.
Hessu
Internal Beta Team
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you're talking to him right now
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So we cant call out cheaters and let people know that there are massive names in the community using hacks? Why? It's not just accusations if there's proof behind it
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A user controlled key wont work - i.e. anything generated on the client is trivially easy to regenerate on the client.
As you say people will simply create a new account. Most people do not have static IPs so cross referencing is not possible. Banning entire ranged punishes innocent people, and they could just use a VPN, or School/Work computer anyway. If it was easy, we would have done it. If you compare it to how for example a steam ban works - that only works because there are consequences to the ban - i.e. you get banned, you have to sign up for a new steam account and buy the game again so you can get a different steamid. Obviously that wont work for us, there is no consequence we can impose and it is very difficult to create one.
Not needed. Everything is tracked by the server. The client does not make any decisions, it simply is told that it has a certain value for BP/HP/FP/Ammo etc. and reflects it in the UI. Any kind of cheat that changes those values on the client would only be visual - infact it would be a disadvantage as you wouldn't know when you were low on anything.
It is the server that calculates if a PB happens. The client does nothing but display what the server tells it is going on. All the server knows is that Client X has state Y and wants to move to state Z. Where said state may contain things like command sent, buttons pushed, direction the player is looking etc. The server then does a great deal of validation to make sure that moving from state Y to state Z is valid. The insidious part of cheats is that they don't do anything that is from the servers point of view illegal and thus it is indistinguishable between someone who is cheating and someone who is playing exceptionally well. Now you can do various analysis and look at various statistics and decide a player may be cheating (this is called heuristic analysis) because they are playing improbably well, but there will be false positives and false negatives because some people will naturally be able to play better than some people who are cheating and vice versa some people who are cheating still wont meet the bar of suspicion. So it becomes a question of do you wrongly punish players for playing too well whilst knowing some cheaters will still be sneaking below the radar, or do you take an innocent until proven guilty approach and not punish people because they appear to be playing too well. Personally i would rather not punish innocent players under any circumstances - including whilst trying to punish someone else.
Correct. Besides it is exceedingly unlikely you have any proof since anyone can claim to be anyone else.
Karus
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This is the paradox of it all lol, but I do think that, right now, cheaters are struggling with scripting reliable toggles.
It seems that, you either join with the scripts already running/on, or you don't have the scripts active.
I could be totally wrong about that though; I'm basing that theory off of typical cheaters that we know of like Argorn/Kronos, since I've personally experienced him dueling me, disconnecting to toggle, and coming back to win 98BP.
Karus
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100%! And this is the problem right now, we don't have anyone in-game who KNOWS how these scripts/cheats work and HOW they can be detected reliably.
So, when someone in a duel server gets accused, nothing happens, since barely anyone knows what signs to look for.
This has become less of a problem as of recent, due to the Argorn/Kronos stuff sparking a reignited interest about cheaters, so hopefully the information depicted in this thread can help newer players spot foul play.
Timenudge:
Spectating the player in question with lagometer turned ON can help in detecting timenudge/Lag Unlocker.
If there is no green at the bottom of the lagometer, timenudge is being used.
SB script:
Well timed slaps and flykicking can help. If you can predict when your opponent is going to start his attack, flykick him and see what happens.
Try to do this at least 5-10 times and see if you can spot anything unusual.
Signs would be CONSISTENT milisecond-reaction crouch times, random high jumps into the air when your slap misses and enemies actively running around, being slapped and not falling.
(I must emphasize the point on CROUCHING. The way SB script works is that it auto-crouches you when you walk/run within range of a slap/kick.
This is one of the very few reasons I am against crouching mid duel; it completely negates our ability as a community to spot cheating. Sure, you could make the same argument about other mechanics, such as pb, BUT, there are no backup mechanics for anything else. Swingblock is the backup mechanic for crouch, so this is a viable mindset I think, at least, until something gets done about it. I'm not saying don't crouch but I'm saying don't crouch. lol)
FUN FACT: SB script does NOT defend against MB (This may be outdated since I last tested the SB script in question a good 6 months ago).
PB script:
Pretty simple. If their crosshair is snapping perfectly towards zones/their mouse seems funky, PB script is at use.
Due to flaws in the script, users will tend to stand still as opposed to moving away from their opponent (backpedalling).
Here are some screens of the injector (scripts) I tested a while ago.
I sent these screens as well as the tool itself directly to Defiant but unfortunately didn't hear anything back (I put this down to not enough time available).
Note: Bare in mind I had only a day or two of messing around in-game with this injector, so I have no idea if/how the other scripts within it work.
Update: This particular injector has been patched, pretty much. See Defiant's response below. Though there may be (probably) newer versions out there somewhere.
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Well shiet, my predictive crouches will now get me called a haxor. Lucky I don't play much.
I often have to crouch to avoid slaps because the server doesn't register my swingblocks properly.
Note: If SB script works by crouching, more ppl should try out the crouching melee kick. That'll knock them if they don't swingblock.
Also, this cheat is beyond gross isn't it? Look at those options.
Seriously. Fuck cheaters.
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This isn't exactly true. People with very low latency won't show any green on the lagometer. It depends on alot of factors. Rest assured however there is absolutely no way that software cheats can lower ping. Possibly they could trick it into displaying a lower ping but you cannot break the laws of physics.
This program has been broken a few times by updates. It tends to cause people to crash within a few minutes if they are using it. Launcher will also refuse to even start if certain versions of it are running, because whoever wrote it is an incompetent fuck and made it its own DoS.
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Same here. In fact I started crouching 2 years ago when my sb wasn't as good, so now it is a force of habit to dodge slaps as a back-up measure when the server fails to register my sb input. Nowadays this doesn't happen too often because I'm sbing near perfectly at real time, but server hiccups can definitely cause knock-downs when you're sbing at times, hence I don't think crouching should be an exact measure of scripting when you've simply accustomed to it.
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