Map changes

[Samus567]

As you all know Mace has been changing a lot of things in maps recently some liked and some not. Much to the dismay of the mb2 community he has taken out catwalk and on deathstar has taken out the mando spots in the gen shaft. I want to start a poll in the community and see if we can get enough people to add these things back into the maps as well as a community poll of other map changes you guys would want. I don't know if Mace did all of this based off of the community or if he just did it because he hates "timewasters". As we all know camping in hangar is something that happens a lot on DoTF. So why take out catwalk just to add a giant ship? Just my opinion but I would love to hear others thoughts about the senseless map changes.

 

[MuscBodypillow]

As you all know Mace has been changing a lot of things in maps recently some liked and some not. Much to the dismay of the mb2 community he has taken out catwalk and on deathstar has taken out the mando spots in the gen shaft. I want to start a poll in the community and see if we can get enough people to add these things back into the maps as well as a community poll of other map changes you guys would want. I don't know if Mace did all of this based off of the community or if he just did it because he hates "timewasters". As we all know camping in hangar is something that happens a lot on DoTF. So why take out catwalk just to add a giant ship? Just my opinion but I would love to hear others thoughts about the senseless map changes.

Changes were made to make things more canon and attempt to improve gameplay. If you give the community a veto option nothing will ever happen, just let the dev do their thing and vote internally on changes.

 

[Derpdolphin]

Changes were made to make things more canon and attempt to improve gameplay. If you give the community a veto option nothing will ever happen, just let the dev do their thing and vote internally on changes.

Because games that have ignored communities in the past have thrived right.. not like half of them die off.
Canon or not "improve gameplay" is more of a debate and laughable we all know its complaints and crying = nerfs

 

[ibegyou]

You can join the Development Team and do some things "better" if you are up to it.

 

[theNoah]

Changes were made to make things more canon and attempt to improve gameplay

Okay, but what does canon have to do with the DS's Mando spots? I can see Mandos and Jedi/Sith having no trouble staying up there in canon.

 

[Samus567]

Changes were made to make things more canon and attempt to improve gameplay. If you give the community a veto option nothing will ever happen, just let the dev do their thing and vote internally on changes.

If mace is worried about timewasting and making gameplay better. Then why would he add a ship in DoTF if he removed catwalk because of timewasting. The only thing that makes sense in the new map is that gen pit is gone becuase theres nothing to hack in there.

 

[MuscBodypillow]

If mace is worried about timewasting and making gameplay better. Then why would he add a ship in DoTF if he removed catwalk because of timewasting. The only thing that makes sense in the new map is that gen pit is gone becuase theres nothing to hack in there.

Ship&catwalk= canon, deathstar pillars and other such spot = timewaste. I don't get how you got the two confused. Not only dotf was changed recently.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

For the sake of transparency here are how some of the things were chosen.

First, there were threads like this one by Soldier Timewasting Places that have a ton of places that bother him and other people in maps. And there are more threads than this one.

Secondly, we have an internal list of things that need to be fixed in some way for maps. Some of these were added by me, some were added by other developers from their experiences, some were added based off of community feedback.

Here are the stuff for Death Star. #24-25 were added to the list before I came back from retirement. #26-28 were added by me. #26 was something I forgot to fix for years. #28 was after a thread on this forum that prompted me to check out if we ever added that flag. #27 is a combination of thread in forum, in game suggestions, and my personal wants. It is also too big of a change to do quickly. #29 was added most recently by Defiant after the most recent patch.

Now on Death Star I did some of the changes fairly quickly due to time constraints and I am willing to revisit and make more permanent and better solutions to them that work for both allowing mandalorians some good spots while also making it impossible for them to have stupid amounts of cover that they cant be flushed out from.

Then why would he add a ship in DoTF if he removed catwalk because of timewasting.

Level of timewasting/camping on catwalk and ship are no where near equivalent. I wanted to add the verticality that catwalk provided which was good for several situations such as rocket arcs, add more cover to hangar to reduce some sight/firing lines, etc. The whole purpose of the ship is to be similar to catwalk but not have the camping benefits where it so high up that only jedi/sith and mando can reach without the elevator and having more entry points for those other classes (3 instead of 1). There really isnt a "timewasting" problem with the ship. There will always be a camping problem but camping and timewasting arent exactly the same thing.

 

[Lessen]

That #24 one (which is written strangely and marked as "need more information") sounds like it might be referencing one or maybe two particular parts in Deathstar where cornerpeeking results in you seeing the hall as empty even if the hall isn't empty. In particular I think there's a case of that at the left turn right as Rebs are entering side corridor.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

It is Lessen. The information was updated I just hadn't updated the actual list yet.

 

[Derpdolphin]

The issue couldnt be time wasting, all areas of the pillars were accessible to gunners to hit, and much less imps are incapable of truely time wasting. Rebs can simply finish obj i dont see how its a problem unless a jedi somehow got up there and stays. There are a hundred better areas for time wasting then pillars.

 

[Lessen]

I did see some kinda Advanced Timewaster once take Jedi and do some kinda walljump shenanigans to end up on the far side of a far pillar, which was pretty impressive, and also very effective timewasting.

But all that means is that the far sides of far pillars need to be walled off.

Personally I don't think the pillars are that bad.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

The issue couldnt be time wasting, all areas of the pillars were accessible to gunners to hit

There were some spots on the farther away pillars where you could go and not be seen/shot at from. I had a choice of whether to block off just those parts or block them all off for the sake of consistency. I had literally minutes to do it and the simple solution was to simply block it off. As I said I can look into doing something a bit more elegant for the next patch that frees up the good spots on those pillars. but I would like the solution to be consistent across all of them.

I am all ears if you guys have suggestions to fix the problem that don't involve

• blocking them all off
• blocking off just the far unreachable portions
• adding a large invisible wall to the pit that prevents access of those spots
• moving the death trigger farther forward for the same as previous
• or deleting the far pillars outright.
• just making the bad parts slick.

If you have a solution that isn't one of the ones above please let me know. Those were all the ones I could think of in the few minutes I had to go over it. I chose to block them all off as it was the most consistent solution that didn't involve deleting. I have been working hard on some other projects that require a bit of attention so I haven't really thought of or tried any other possible solutions.

Also keep in mind that these pillars are made of models which makes modifying the geo to suit specific needs a bit more difficult.

I am definitely willing to bring the gameplay around the pillars back if we can fix the problems with them.

 

[Lessen]

Move the pillars at the ends so far away from the bridges etc that Jedi run out of FP before they can get to them? (It's not a problem if Mandos can get there, since obj exists)

 

[Lessen]

this would require model modification, but not very complex model modification surely: Make it so the bottoms of the columns (the wide part you stand on) can be destroyed by blasters? Can still be used for Mando Defensive Camping in general (since they can jetpack if they fall) or risky Jedi/Sith stealth, but can't be simply camped on.

or for a cheaper similar solution, add a panel or something to shoot to electrify the columns for some reason

then bring back the tie hangar catwalks but make it so you can shoot both ends of the catwalk to bring it crashing down like the TIEs themselves

 

[MaceMadunusus]

(It's not a problem if Mandos can get there, since obj exists)

I would still like to fix it for mandos since people tunnel vision a lot.

I don't particularly want to make them destroyable. Partially because of the model change. Electrifying is a maybe. Could have it shootable but it sends an electrifying shock up instead of destroying.

 

[S o l d i e r]

Here you have a video of #24: Corner-peeking and Vent-rolling Vision Bugs

On the point of Deathstar pillars, I actually think the gameplay is much better now in the tractor shaft since the mandos can't camp. You can move much more freely across the bridges now and it isn't such a one-sided situation. It's better for everyone other than mandos, so leaving the pillars as they are now should be considered an option. Plus, I don't think it's realistic that anyone should stand up there, since there isn't even a standing spot in there, other than buggy clipping. When it comes to timewasting, the only problem is when a Jedi goes to the far side of the farthest-away pillars, they are pretty invincible there if they just block.

 

[S o l d i e r]

And if the pillar spots were re-added, a solution could be to make some kind of a switch that would create some kind of a wind/draft in the tractor beam shaft that would make the surfaces of the pillars used for camping slippery, so that anyone standing there slips from them. This switch can be placed in some of the more rarely-used parts of the map to make them more frequented, like that bottom route between the TIE hangar and the tractor beam console side objective.

 

[Samus567]

I would still like to fix it for mandos since people tunnel vision a lot.

I don't particularly want to make them destroyable. Partially because of the model change. Electrifying is a maybe. Could have it shootable but it sends an electrifying shock up instead of destroying.

Personally I think that would be a great idea to leave the far ones because it's a defensive position for the secondary objective but having them to be shot would make it very much even in my opinion. That way jedi can deflect and make them a very bad idea to stand on if it will electrify it.

 

[theNoah]

How about electrifying pillars during the last minute (or so) of each round? At the very least, it would cause timewasters to try other areas.

EDIT:
Or perhaps a switch to do so that can only be activated when there's 2 minutes (or so) remaining?