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This is an idea that's been brewing in my head for a while, but has recently become more prevalent with recent changes to the ee3. (Note: dual pistols will simply be referred to as mando/arc pistols and the arc rifle will be referred to as the westar m5)
The point I want to express today is that the ee3 and westar m5 are outclassed in certain aspects by their dual pistol counterparts, and need changes to match their supposed role for the class or their role in the game.
MANDO:
The ee3 is a pretty regular gun with a regular primary mode, a sniper secondary mode, and a scope. However, its one defining feature is that it is the only gun in all of open mode with bloom. Bloom is a mechanic where firing above a certain rate of fire causes random spread to be placed on your shots, and is exacerbated by holding or tapping the trigger for extended periods at high rates. In games where all guns have bloom, this is less of an issue, as each weapon is on an equitable playing field. However, in MB2, the ee3 is the only gun with bloom, putting it at a great disadvantage in certain scenarios, namely when prefiring, trying to land headshots, aiming at close quarters, and firing at long range, where an ee3 user must artificially gimp their dps in order to achieve the same accuracy as an e11, even if the ee3 user is standing still or crouching, whereas the e11 user can walk. This greatly limits the usability of the ee3 compared to mando pistols, which have perfect accuracy at all ranges and during any movements, and have a far higher accurate rate of fire than the ee3. This is why I believe the people who will reply to this with "just revert ee3 sniper damage" are not entirely correct: It's not about the sniper damage, although that would somewhat balance the ee3 with the pistols, but it's about rewarding good tracking and aim. The fact that a clone rifle 3 user can stand still and spit out a perfectly accurate stream of fire with higher dps with a minigun compared to the ee3 light carbine is simply ridiculous and does not make for skilled gameplay. The fact that a robot with perfect headshot aim could miss with an ee3 because of bloom where any other gun in the game, mando pistols included, could hit, lowers ee3's skill ceiling and caps its effectiveness, particularly in scrims and competitive play. Additionally, bloom makes the ee3 far harder to use while jetpacking than dual pistols, as the pistols can be charged or spammed for easier aim while the ee3 user sacrifices their accuracy for any usable rate of fire in a flying gunfight. Given that ee3's max innaccurate dps isn't even greater than dual pistols' dps, i struggle to see why this mechanic exists on the ee3.
Solution 1: Simply remove bloom, and suddenly the 2 guns have similar accuracy, dps, and usability in all situations. Perhaps the ee3 should have running inaccuracy, but I believe perfect accuracy while in flight would greatly reward mandos who can both control their flight, aim well, and compensate for both their own movement and the enemy's.
Solution 2: Port the bloom from ee3 to clone rifle. Why does the fastest firing gun in the game not have bloom, but a carbine does? This would force cr3 users in particular to pace their shots and would logically make more sense, given that in real life most LMGs can literally melt the barrel with extended firing and destroy the gun's accuracy doing so. This would also prevent clone spam where a wave of clones can simply indefinitely prefire a corner with no loss in accuracy. This is fairer than having bloom on the ee3 because of the clone rifle's higher rate of fire and dps, which would make up for its poorer accuracy. The ee3 would have the same accuracy as in solution 1.
Next: charge shot on pistols vs ee3 sniper. The ee3 sniper requires 2 hits to do the same amount of damage that dual pistols do charged to the max. Just 3 seconds of charging on dual pistols deals 100 damage, enough to severely damage most classes, while being able to use 3rd person to peek a corner instead of having to quickscope. Additionally, mando pistols' charged shot can be held to line it up perfectly with 0 loss in accuracy while one's accuracy while lining up an ee3 snipe is affected by being hit. Again, this allows for dual pistol mando to peek and deal crippling damage, with a faster reload, larger projectile, and better accuracy under fire. This is not equitable.
Solution 1: Simply increase ee3 sniper damage by 15 or so. Not enough to 1-hit kill on bodyshots, but enough to make it a valid choice over charging pistols. I don't see why this shouldn't be an issue.
Note that all of the above are with a point cost of 19 for dual pistols and 28 for ee3. This is the difference between being able to go dual pistols, fuel 3, flamethrower/wrist laser, rocket, armor 2 and ammo 2, and the same build minus either fuel 3/flame/wrist laser. Taking ee3 gives you a scope for worse accuracy, less build options, and lower effective dps in most gunfights. Something has to change here.
ARC
Arc pistols are special because of their bouncy secondary, allowing them to fire around corners and suppress gunners hiding in cover and lay down covering fire without needing to peek out of cover themselves. Skilled arcs like @Fang could probably bounce shots down dotf main without exposing themselves to sniper fire, and being able to suppress disruptor and projectile rifle users without risking a one hit kill or most of your armor/hp is extremely powerful. Additionally, the pistols are also perfectly accurate in every situation. Now, let's take the westar m5. A decent rof gun whose biggest assets are perfect accuracy at rank 2 and the ability to buy attachments. In terms of a gunfight, the only reason to take the westar m5 is for up-close action where the spread on dual pistols makes hitting headshots difficult and the higher rate of fire on the westar m5 is useful in case you miss a shot or 2.
Let's wind the clocks back a couple years. The westar m5 was the most feared gun for any sith because of its fp drains, which were by far the best on pretty much any rifle/pistol. A running sith could be drained in just a couple seconds, and getting hit while swingblocking pretty much deleted any sith's fp. This made a dex 3 westar m5 arc the most dangerous gunner against sith, barring perhaps dash hero. But now, with bad fp drains across the board, the westar m5 is now just an average gun, and given that its rate of fire is lower than the e11 secondary's, it offers no advantage against sith compared to other guns/classes, and the pistols do similar dps and have the same accuracy for cheaper point cost against gunners. I know many claimed the m5 used to be op vs sith; It doesn't have to drain 100 fp in 2 seconds, but it ought to be better than e11 at the very least. Additionally, knowing that devs are working on a convergence fix for pistols that should help them at mid-close range, there will be little reason to pick the westar m5 besides grabbing its grenade launcher, or attempting to pop snipe with a scope that could be better used as a rocket or pulse grenade. Simply put, the combination of dexterity 3 and westar m5 rank 2 used to have a niche role as the best anti-sith gunner tool, and could also hold its own against gunners with good aim. But now, it is outclassed, has less utility, and the thought process when buying points for arc is more like "Do i want bouncy pistols or grenade launcher?"
Solution 1: When fp drains are fixed, the westar m5 needs an edge beyond most other guns in order to have its own niche. Especially compared to the higher rof e11 secondary, the m5 needs, say, 1.3-1.5x the drain per shot to have a role.
Solution 2: The damage per shot on westar m5 should be increased by, say, 2 or 3, so it's better than pistols in terms of raw dps but the pistols have bouncing and cover fire utility.
Solution 3: The price of the westar m5 attachments should be lowered a couple points so its more worth it to invest in the multi-weapon system, which is pretty much unique for a humanoid gunner class.
As it stands, the only reason to take westar m5 is for its sticky pulse nade launcher, and otherwise its old role as a sith killer has been replaced by dash e11 3 hero, which does what arc does but better due to its higher rof and fp drains.
TL;DR: EE3 and Westar M5 are underpowered and have less utility than their dual pistol counterparts, their bloom and fp drains, respectively, need significant change for them to be worth buying over pistols.
The point I want to express today is that the ee3 and westar m5 are outclassed in certain aspects by their dual pistol counterparts, and need changes to match their supposed role for the class or their role in the game.
MANDO:
The ee3 is a pretty regular gun with a regular primary mode, a sniper secondary mode, and a scope. However, its one defining feature is that it is the only gun in all of open mode with bloom. Bloom is a mechanic where firing above a certain rate of fire causes random spread to be placed on your shots, and is exacerbated by holding or tapping the trigger for extended periods at high rates. In games where all guns have bloom, this is less of an issue, as each weapon is on an equitable playing field. However, in MB2, the ee3 is the only gun with bloom, putting it at a great disadvantage in certain scenarios, namely when prefiring, trying to land headshots, aiming at close quarters, and firing at long range, where an ee3 user must artificially gimp their dps in order to achieve the same accuracy as an e11, even if the ee3 user is standing still or crouching, whereas the e11 user can walk. This greatly limits the usability of the ee3 compared to mando pistols, which have perfect accuracy at all ranges and during any movements, and have a far higher accurate rate of fire than the ee3. This is why I believe the people who will reply to this with "just revert ee3 sniper damage" are not entirely correct: It's not about the sniper damage, although that would somewhat balance the ee3 with the pistols, but it's about rewarding good tracking and aim. The fact that a clone rifle 3 user can stand still and spit out a perfectly accurate stream of fire with higher dps with a minigun compared to the ee3 light carbine is simply ridiculous and does not make for skilled gameplay. The fact that a robot with perfect headshot aim could miss with an ee3 because of bloom where any other gun in the game, mando pistols included, could hit, lowers ee3's skill ceiling and caps its effectiveness, particularly in scrims and competitive play. Additionally, bloom makes the ee3 far harder to use while jetpacking than dual pistols, as the pistols can be charged or spammed for easier aim while the ee3 user sacrifices their accuracy for any usable rate of fire in a flying gunfight. Given that ee3's max innaccurate dps isn't even greater than dual pistols' dps, i struggle to see why this mechanic exists on the ee3.
Solution 1: Simply remove bloom, and suddenly the 2 guns have similar accuracy, dps, and usability in all situations. Perhaps the ee3 should have running inaccuracy, but I believe perfect accuracy while in flight would greatly reward mandos who can both control their flight, aim well, and compensate for both their own movement and the enemy's.
Solution 2: Port the bloom from ee3 to clone rifle. Why does the fastest firing gun in the game not have bloom, but a carbine does? This would force cr3 users in particular to pace their shots and would logically make more sense, given that in real life most LMGs can literally melt the barrel with extended firing and destroy the gun's accuracy doing so. This would also prevent clone spam where a wave of clones can simply indefinitely prefire a corner with no loss in accuracy. This is fairer than having bloom on the ee3 because of the clone rifle's higher rate of fire and dps, which would make up for its poorer accuracy. The ee3 would have the same accuracy as in solution 1.
Next: charge shot on pistols vs ee3 sniper. The ee3 sniper requires 2 hits to do the same amount of damage that dual pistols do charged to the max. Just 3 seconds of charging on dual pistols deals 100 damage, enough to severely damage most classes, while being able to use 3rd person to peek a corner instead of having to quickscope. Additionally, mando pistols' charged shot can be held to line it up perfectly with 0 loss in accuracy while one's accuracy while lining up an ee3 snipe is affected by being hit. Again, this allows for dual pistol mando to peek and deal crippling damage, with a faster reload, larger projectile, and better accuracy under fire. This is not equitable.
Solution 1: Simply increase ee3 sniper damage by 15 or so. Not enough to 1-hit kill on bodyshots, but enough to make it a valid choice over charging pistols. I don't see why this shouldn't be an issue.
Note that all of the above are with a point cost of 19 for dual pistols and 28 for ee3. This is the difference between being able to go dual pistols, fuel 3, flamethrower/wrist laser, rocket, armor 2 and ammo 2, and the same build minus either fuel 3/flame/wrist laser. Taking ee3 gives you a scope for worse accuracy, less build options, and lower effective dps in most gunfights. Something has to change here.
ARC
Arc pistols are special because of their bouncy secondary, allowing them to fire around corners and suppress gunners hiding in cover and lay down covering fire without needing to peek out of cover themselves. Skilled arcs like @Fang could probably bounce shots down dotf main without exposing themselves to sniper fire, and being able to suppress disruptor and projectile rifle users without risking a one hit kill or most of your armor/hp is extremely powerful. Additionally, the pistols are also perfectly accurate in every situation. Now, let's take the westar m5. A decent rof gun whose biggest assets are perfect accuracy at rank 2 and the ability to buy attachments. In terms of a gunfight, the only reason to take the westar m5 is for up-close action where the spread on dual pistols makes hitting headshots difficult and the higher rate of fire on the westar m5 is useful in case you miss a shot or 2.
Let's wind the clocks back a couple years. The westar m5 was the most feared gun for any sith because of its fp drains, which were by far the best on pretty much any rifle/pistol. A running sith could be drained in just a couple seconds, and getting hit while swingblocking pretty much deleted any sith's fp. This made a dex 3 westar m5 arc the most dangerous gunner against sith, barring perhaps dash hero. But now, with bad fp drains across the board, the westar m5 is now just an average gun, and given that its rate of fire is lower than the e11 secondary's, it offers no advantage against sith compared to other guns/classes, and the pistols do similar dps and have the same accuracy for cheaper point cost against gunners. I know many claimed the m5 used to be op vs sith; It doesn't have to drain 100 fp in 2 seconds, but it ought to be better than e11 at the very least. Additionally, knowing that devs are working on a convergence fix for pistols that should help them at mid-close range, there will be little reason to pick the westar m5 besides grabbing its grenade launcher, or attempting to pop snipe with a scope that could be better used as a rocket or pulse grenade. Simply put, the combination of dexterity 3 and westar m5 rank 2 used to have a niche role as the best anti-sith gunner tool, and could also hold its own against gunners with good aim. But now, it is outclassed, has less utility, and the thought process when buying points for arc is more like "Do i want bouncy pistols or grenade launcher?"
Solution 1: When fp drains are fixed, the westar m5 needs an edge beyond most other guns in order to have its own niche. Especially compared to the higher rof e11 secondary, the m5 needs, say, 1.3-1.5x the drain per shot to have a role.
Solution 2: The damage per shot on westar m5 should be increased by, say, 2 or 3, so it's better than pistols in terms of raw dps but the pistols have bouncing and cover fire utility.
Solution 3: The price of the westar m5 attachments should be lowered a couple points so its more worth it to invest in the multi-weapon system, which is pretty much unique for a humanoid gunner class.
As it stands, the only reason to take westar m5 is for its sticky pulse nade launcher, and otherwise its old role as a sith killer has been replaced by dash e11 3 hero, which does what arc does but better due to its higher rof and fp drains.
TL;DR: EE3 and Westar M5 are underpowered and have less utility than their dual pistol counterparts, their bloom and fp drains, respectively, need significant change for them to be worth buying over pistols.
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