Force Stun

[Stassin]

This is just a small thought and i just wanted to get some opinions on it.

I dream of having Force Speed again for Sith (which wouldn't be that OP now with flinch/FP drains for saberists), and along with that Jedi would need a new lightside force power. How about that force power be a lightside version of Grip, force Stun, that would be designed to be defensive instead of offensive. Along with that, i think grip could use a rework to make level 2 more useful. Both powers should be rather powerful so as to match the likes of MT (as lightside/darkside powers, be more expensive and powerful than neutral powers).

*** Grip: specializes on a single target (offensive):
- level 1, same as current (small damage or even no damage, stun)
- level 2, no dmg buff nor lock time decrease, only allow free tossing of the victim around (like current level 3)
- level 3, expensive and adds great damage as well as significantly decreasing the lock time.

*** Stun: specializes on multiple targets (defensive):
- level 1, only slows down target unit by a 0.5x factor for a few seconds, no damage, no visual effects, instantaneous cast with force push or MT animation and a new sound effect, tiny vulnerability window (like pull) and moderate to low FP drain (15 or 20 FP, so several targets can potentially be slowed in quick succession without massive loss of FP nor huge vulnerability), has 2x the range of grip
- level 2, lower FP drain (10, 15 FP), has 4x the range of grip
- level 3, expensive, adds a short stun of the victim in the form of a stagger (not longer than a short flinch).
Possibly disallow the use of Force Push/Pull right after force Stun (like with force Lightning).

 

[foggy]

Grip +push is a killer combo, this will make buying grip 3 obsolete, you can just grip and throw poor shooters whatever you like, and buy force block in addition
No one runs with grip3 + push 3 nowadays because they don't have enough points for FB and no one likes when they are tossed around by jedis.
IMO grip doesn't need any buff in any way, because it's the gayest power in the universe and an infinite source of fun for trolls

 

[takuta pls]

level 2, no dmg buff nor lock time decrease, only allow free tossing of the victim around (like current level 3)

uh oh
missed the mark a tad, should lock push/pull after grip2 usage if it's gonna be like that
stun looks fine, especially with the push/pull lock

alsooo, lightning speed sith is a scary concept

 

[Szunti]

Isn't it stun and slash like the current lightning?

What about an ability that makes you block in a larger area protecting the ones behind you? I never understood why can't jedi do this reliably. It could work while holding block and pressing special 1. It would be wonderful eg. if your team has to push against snipers in a corridor. Advocates teamwork.

 

[Starushka]

I like Grip changes and introduction of force Stun. I think Force Speed should stay as a light side power. I like the idea Mace suggested - give sith force Rage (which will act pretty much like speed with a few exceptions).
Rough concept:
- increases movement speed by x amount, but not as fast as force speed (without force speed visual effect)
- active lightsaber
- increased FP drains

 

[Lessen]

you pulled Stun from KOTOR, didn't you? It does sound like it would get the same hop>slash combo usage as lightning. I don't quite see how it would be "defensive."

Off-the-wall, also-KOTOR-based idea: what if the Light side "Lightning" parallel instead paralleled the "wide-area debuff" by being a "wide-area buff." By which I mean, it would be like Inspire or the other buffs from KOTOR 2, it would let you use a bunch of FP (making yourself vulnerable) in order to give an ally (or, at level 3, multiple allies) a temporary boost of some kind, like (temporary) health or speed or armor.

Buffs already exist with the fact that soldiers spawning on Commanders have increased health and speed for a little while.

I imagine this would lead to Overwatch Anaboosted Reinhardts, by which I mean, Inspired Wookiees.

 

[SeV]

I completely agree with stassin. I also dream of having force speed back for sith. I approve of the grip changes too. Grip 3 is too expensive (what you get it for is the tossing around ppl for lulz part of it). But to get it you have to gimp your build significantly. With grip 2 having that capability you would be able to have a normal build to go along with it, which would be a nice utility and provide much fun.

Stun is a decent idea I guess.

I think force rage would also be feasible, but the problem is that it would be quite strong if you can have the lightsaber out at the same time and be faster. To balance it out you would have to make speed the lightside version of rage or call level 3 battle meditation or something like that. Then make both sides have this kind of movement boost + lightsaber thing. That just seems too OP, and we would have to rebalance around it. The stun idea seems more doable right now.

I've suggested heal as an addition to the lightside powers when giving sith speed. But tbh, stun is a better choice. Heal isn't that useful anymore, especially since sabers don't deal HP damage through block like they used to.


EDIT: Alot of force power ideas lulul..

What would be cool, would be some sort of team support ability like force shield. It could be projected unto a teammate giving damage absorption according to its level. It is an active ability so you use it when ur teammate is taking dmg. Maybe like a poison dart toggle? Complicated but its just an idea.

There's force absorb and force protect aswell. Could add all the vanilla force powers. Force drain for sith to drain HP and replenish their own HP. Jedis would get heal and force absorb along with force protect and sith would get force rage (ala starushka's suggestion).

This would be a hot mess

I kind of like the idea of Jedi's using telekinesis to set up a temporary force barrier. Channeled and draining a fuckton of FP and only lasting a few sec. These are just fun ideas, nothing serious. For srs ideas I will go with what stassin has suggested. I'd love to see speed back for sith.

 

[Bob-Billy]

What about "Force drain" back to sith ? (Or some kind of Deathfield like KOTOR)

 

[Stassin]

I think in general in mb2 we don't want any kind of force power that would provide "buffs" to allies, and in fact even to self.

Stun levels 1/2 wouldn't be OP for 1v1 precisely because of flinch nowadays, and the recent changes to saber vs gun mechanics (FP drains). And level 3 stun would need to be quite short and tuned so the jedi cannot saber the gunner while he is still staggering, but just after, so that the gunner still has the chance of getting a shot in. Nevertheless it would indeed have some offensive power especially for level 3, but that's perfectly fine for a non-neutral expensive force power, especially if we disallow push/pull after use like with lightning. Think of MT, not to mention grip level 3 with its very short lock time (and lightning of course... which also slows down and stuns for a short while after the power is released).

Overall, this kind of version of Force Stun would be best to ease your escape against enemies by slowing their movement down, or generally to be used tactically for teamwork with your own gunner allies. Against enemy Siths i think it should work if force-focused, and the short stagger would be like our usual staggers, allowing to still block saber swings but not projectiles.

In general, due to having weaker effects and their ability to work against several enemies, the two lightside powers (Stun/MT) would be best suited for defense, yet still have some offensive power. While the darkside powers mainly focus on a single target (or several but still at quite close range for lightning 3) with stronger effects, and thus are much more offensively oriented, with more risk and commitment for the user aswell, though they can still used tactically with teammates (fake the grip rumble sounds on enemies to draw their attention, same thing with very short lightning bursts).

 

[Szunti]

I don't like stun. Most gunners have to walk already because of a possible push. Do you want them to be even slower? I don't see why this mechanic is needed or what it adds.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

The main problem I have with this idea is - how are you supposed to counter it? Being slowed down by 50% for a few seconds is a huge deal, and if jedi can spam this thing on enemy gunners from kilometer away... well, seems just a little bit unbalanced. Even in 1v1 situation, this thing makes sure that you can never run away from the jedi, and vice versa - he can constantly slow you down until he gets to a safe spot.

So all in all, this just sounds way too good. No way to avoid being affected by it and low FP cost coupled with long range. A bit crazy eh?

 

[StarWarsGeek]

50% does seem pretty drastic, especially for an insta-cast power. I think a slightly higher FP cost and short range (not much bigger than push at max) could make it alright at 50%.

Alternatively, make it require holding the button, and the longer you cast it on a target the more the target slows. Start off with something like 10-15% slow, and ramp up to a max of 50% over 2-3 seconds. Since gunners can still fire during this, you'd need to allow jedi to block for it to be useful at all, but gunners still have an opportunity to fight back because the jedi would be draining his own FP by keeping the power active. Higher levels could give the power an AOE slow field around your crosshair.

 

[Stassin]

Alternatively, make it require holding the button, and the longer you cast it on a target the more the target slows. Start off with something like 10-15% slow, and ramp up to a max of 50% over 2-3 seconds. Since gunners can still fire during this, you'd need to allow jedi to block for it to be useful at all, but gunners still have an opportunity to fight back because the jedi would be draining his own FP by keeping the power active. Higher levels could give the power an AOE slow field around your crosshair.

Yes that was actually my original idea as well, but then i thought it would make the ability impractical to use against multiple targets, and i'd prefer it retains that aspect even if the effects need to be weaker than what i wrote in the OP, since that's what would make it more defensive than not.

 

[Gumba]

- level 3, expensive and adds great damage as well as significantly decreasing the lock time.

Please for the love of god don't buff grip.
I'm still having PTSD flashbacks from the grip push builds everywhere

 

[DaloLorn]

I don't much care for stun, I'm afraid (and I'm definitely in the 'why buff grip' group)... but speed for Sith sounds nice.