Fix Yaws

Anbu

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You stopped your combo. Had you carried on swinging after your first, you would have been able to parry or perhaps even interrupt my retaliation, but you stopped with 1 swing and got pushed against.
You then tried to counter in a random direction during my retaliation, which then caused you to be interrupted.
The counter swing is not instant.
It seems that way because you are trying to randomly counter/parry but literally cannot get your attacks out due to timing and/or panicking.
As I said, had you continued your combo, you would have been fine, which means the counter swing cannot possibly be instantaneous.
Yawing has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Pre-aim also would not have done jack shit and is a retarded excuse, as pre-aiming 4 pb zones requires at least some degree of good prediction.
What would have saved you is simply continuing to attack or simply backing off after you realised I was retaliating instead of trying to M1 mash in order to match my speed/offensive.
Though I agree that the countering mechanic is inconsistent as shit.
The way countering works currently is completely stupid. It should be based on PB, not swing direction, imo.
Meaning, it shouldn't matter where the enemy is swinging from; if you PB that, you should be guaranteed a counter.
Not guaranteed DAMAGE, but guaranteed ABILITY to counter, instead of it being mindless M1 mashing like it currently is.
(Yes I'm guilty of it but so are you as you attempted it in the clip lol, everybody else is too its how countering works right now and its not our fault, blame Temp for implementing dumb ideas and not listening to good players, he literally said if the counter system was not how it is right now, countering would be unskilled LOL, no offense to him of course, I just wanted to point that out)
I agree. Old habits coming back to haunt you hessu, what karus done was a reaction to you doing 1-3 rhythm so often that he could predict when it happens. Like most top tiers would after a few duels, it isint luck or bullshit, it’s reading.
 

Hessu

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you positioned your mouse poorly and failed to anticipate the counter, in my experience i can consistently anticipate counters and PB them if my opponent is heavily reliant on them and repeats the same D side swing. Or, I can bait out a counter with a swing and instantly slap.
How was my mouse position bad? I had my left side towards karus so my swing from the left has a short distance to travel. Also do you really think its fine that the counter hit me before my swing had returned?
 

Hessu

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You stopped your combo. Had you carried on swinging after your first, you would have been able to parry or perhaps even interrupt my retaliation, but you stopped with 1 swing and got pushed against.
You then tried to counter in a random direction during my retaliation, which then caused you to be interrupted.
The counter swing is not instant.
It seems that way because you are trying to randomly counter/parry but literally cannot get your attacks out due to timing and/or panicking.
As I said, had you continued your combo, you would have been fine, which means the counter swing cannot possibly be instantaneous.
Yawing has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Pre-aim also would not have done jack shit and is a retarded excuse, as pre-aiming 4 pb zones requires at least some degree of good prediction.
What would have saved you is simply continuing to attack or simply backing off after you realised I was retaliating instead of trying to M1 mash in order to match my speed/offensive.
Though I agree that the countering mechanic is inconsistent as shit.
The way countering works currently is completely stupid. It should be based on PB, not swing direction, imo.
Meaning, it shouldn't matter where the enemy is swinging from; if you PB that, you should be guaranteed a counter.
Not guaranteed DAMAGE, but guaranteed ABILITY to counter, instead of it being mindless M1 mashing like it currently is.
(Yes I'm guilty of it but so are you as you attempted it in the clip lol, everybody else is too its how countering works right now and its not our fault, blame Temp for implementing dumb ideas and not listening to good players, he literally said if the counter system was not how it is right now, countering would be unskilled LOL, no offense to him of course, I just wanted to point that out)
You have some good points there but that counter speed you did was fucked no matter what.
 

Hessu

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I agree. Old habits coming back to haunt you hessu, what karus done was a reaction to you doing 1-3 rhythm so often that he could predict when it happens. Like most top tiers would after a few duels, it isint luck or bullshit, it’s reading.
Im complaining about the counter speed he did, its impossible to react to it
 

Hessu

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I do it all the time lol, Pbing isint the only answer either. Idk why you seem so tunnel-vision on this idea that it is.
What else can you do while your swing is returning and you're getting countered?
 

Hessu

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slap? move out the way? predict it and do a full combo cycle?
Yes could have slapped, but if he swingblocks it the result is the same and i get hit, can't move out of the way in that situation, im too close to him, will get hit. If i would have done a full combo, i'd be vulnerable to his slap, if i manage to swingblock it, then it would have resulted in a parry or interrupt. So 2 options that may or may have not worked
 
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Hessu

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Anyways maybe complaining about the system is useless, everyone knows how flawed it is and hopefully next patch will fix those flaws. I think i made my point and you guys made yours and i agree with some
heres the instacounter if the karus clip wasnt convincing
 
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if this is not instant then what is?
Yellow a half swing or staff a/d into d/a halfswing in tempest beta last year or most if not all a halfswings in 1.3.
that counter hits me before my swing has returned
Yes because counters are generally faster than return animations.
Counters > half swing in speed
They are the same speed/animation. Halfswings will take longer to come out as you have to wait out two other animations.
I think they used to be around same speed pre 1.5
Do you forget 1.4.
Also do you really think its fine that the counter hit me before my swing had returned?
Yes, having yellow counter swings be as slow as its returns would make it impossible to counter mid combo.
heres the instacounter if the karus clip wasnt convincing
Not instant.
 
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cannonfodder

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Yes could have slapped, but if he swingblocks it the result is the same and i get hit, can't move out of the way in that situation, im too close to him, will get hit. If i would have done a full combo, i'd be vulnerable to his slap, if i manage to swingblock it, then it would have resulted in a parry or interrupt. So 2 options that may or may have not worked
You are correct in saying that if your enemy does everything perfectly and knows your every move before you do them, he will likely win in that scenario. Alternatively, you can crouch during your combo when you expect the slap, or space your swing so that you CAN back out in time to not get hit, as well as to not get slapped. You can also mix in slow yaws on starters if they love counter-hitting you.

If an option MAY get countered or negated by the enemy (like every option in this entire game) that's not enough to justify never attempting them. If dueling required 0 risk and was just doing the rounds every duel, that would be even less enjoyable than what we have now.
 

Hessu

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Yellow a half swing or staff a/d into d/a halfswing in tempest beta last year or most if not all a halfswings in 1.3.

Yes because counters are generally faster than return animations.

They are the same speed/animation. Halfswings will take longer to come out as you have to wait out two other animations.

Do you forget 1.4.

Yes, having yellow counter swings be as slow as its returns would make it impossible to counter mid combo.

Not instant.
Not talking about 1.4 pbc and mbc, watched a video of 1.4.9 and the counter hit right by the end of the return animation, which is the same as on current build, so i was wrong about counter speed being slower on earlier builds, at least 1.4.
Except sometimes they are buggy and faster than they should, like on that clip i posted, maybe its not instant but i do the same counter swing before him and it was slower than his, sometimes its faster than it should be. And i don't believe my slap had anything to do with that.

tldr: system bad, fast yaws stronger than they should be in my opinion
 
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