Feelings towards Flinch

[SomeGuy]

So after seeing flinch over and over I have a few opinions about it.

I do believe it is a good addition and a step in the right direction. But...

They problem is that it does not really punish saberists for a mistake as much as only rewards the gunner for his aim. The people who know how it works and can manipulate it use it for swingblocks vs guns. Otherwise just run close enough to nudge and then quick swing.

Personally I feel flinch should be removed and original shot knockbacks on all opponents from previous builds reintroduced. The knockback rewarded the gunner and penalized the saberist equally. Also it gave more opportunity to pin other gunners against walls to prevent fleeing and quicken engagements.

 

[SomeGuy]

Flinch definitely adds no positive effect for the jedi/sith whatsoever, this is simply an illusory feeling that you are getting when encountering it. Tapping block doesn't stop the animation at all, however getting flinched, then holding block, and getting shot after that does stop the animation, putting you in a block animation (from which you can perform a counter ie a halfswing). You can't "use" this positively, for instance the exact same happens when you simply swingblock: you get in a block animation from which you can counter (or not counter, and return to the idle saber state and ram into the gunner to activate nudge, from which you do a halfswing - but doing a counter is faster since you don't need to wait to get back to the idle state and nudging to do a halfswing then). If flinch didn't exist, you could perform the exact same thing too: swing, get hit (your swing continues), then hold block (thus you are swingblocking now), then get hit again which puts you in a block animation. Flinch (which is nothing more than a short stagger) only strictly stops your swing instead of allowing it to continue (and prevents you from starting another swing while flinching).

Nothing more than a matter of crisply understanding what occurs in-game.

So here is what I see happens: Players with low ping and fast reaction do it (this is actually a big part of it). They run up to an enemy gunner, bobbing and weaving, swing block, get flinched, bunny hop and swing again in the next second for a kill. Or they don't swing block, jump and hit block to stop the flinch, and try again. Taking no damage in the process because it blocks the body hit. This is by no means common, but it happens nonetheless. I'm not saying it is used like a mini-Q3, just more as insurance to block damage on a direct body hit during a swing.

Addition: You may be perfectly right that it just needs some changes or tweaks because, to me, right now it doesn't feel like it is perfect. All I'm saying is the old knockback felt more balanced and rewarding. Such as, gunner misses and is punished by death while saberist rewarded with kill. Likewise saberist misses and is pushed back and damaged, or dead, while gunner is rewarded for good aim with a kill. With flinch it feels like, yes the gunner is rewarded by stopping the attack with good aim, but the saberist is not punished for his mistake while he is neither rewarded for it. Understand what I mean?

 

[Szunti]

Don't the jedi get hit and lose hp when flinch is happening?

 

[Flooven]

Don't the jedi get hit and lose hp when flinch is happening?

I thought they did, I might be wrong though.

 

[Noob]

Well with the damage reduction, it sure feels like it does no damage.

 

[SomeGuy]

Don't the jedi get hit and lose hp when flinch is happening?

The shot that causes flinch does no damage. If the Jedi keeps hitting attack or no mouse buttons while he is still flinching, yeah. But if he holds block after the shot that caused the flinch, then no, he blocks. Unless he has no force points. So with the damage reduction it takes a lot of shots to kill them.

 

[Stassin]

The shot that causes flinch does no damage.

Well, it does.

 

[StarWarsGeek]

The shot that causes flinch does no damage.

I'm 99% certain this is false.

EDIT: Ninja Stassin 2fast4me.

I still like the idea of tying flinch recovery time to the ROF or damage of weapons. Completely removing it for some weapons or making requirements different between weps (e.g. 2 shots to flinch with CR3) would be very inconsistent and hard to balance. Simply tying it to ROF/damage covers the entire spectrum of guns and appropriately makes low ROF/high damage shots more rewarding to hit and high ROF/low damage shots less rewarding.

 

[SomeGuy]

Well, it does.

The whole reasoning behind flinch is that the Jedi decides to hastily block that incoming shot but is recoiled in the process, correct? From what I've seen while playing is that it seems follow up shots are what do the damage. It could be the damage is small enough not to warrant an audio cue.

I'm 99% certain this is false.

EDIT: Ninja Stassin 2fast4me.

I still like the idea of tying flinch recovery time to the ROF or damage of weapons. Completely removing it for some weapons or making requirements different between weps (e.g. 2 shots to flinch with CR3) would be very inconsistent and hard to balance. Simply tying it to ROF/damage covers the entire spectrum of guns and appropriately makes low ROF/high damage shots more rewarding to hit and high ROF/low damage shots less rewarding.

That makes more sense. Although damage taken may need to be altered. If the slow weapons don't do enough per hit compared to the DPS from the quicker weapons, it wouldn't do much different.

I haven't done tests on anything, I'm only expressing what it looks and feels like during regular play.

 

[Stassin]

The whole reasoning behind flinch is that the Jedi decides to hastily block that incoming shot but is recoiled in the process, correct?

If the jedi decides to hastily block, then the corresponding feature in mb2 is swingblocking. Flinch would be when he really doesn't block at all, and is shot, so he's hurt and the momentum from the energy blast pushes his attack away.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Flinch shots don't always hit. You're moving around and even if its a flinch shot, it can easily miss, hence the no dmg.
I've been flinched several times without taking dmg or holding block

Possibly. Looking at huds is exhausting. The fight is all.

 

[SomeGuy]

Flinch shots don't always hit. You're moving around and even if its a flinch shot, it can easily miss, hence the no dmg.
I've been flinched several times without taking dmg or holding block

Possibly. Looking at huds is exhausting. The fight is all.

Maybe this is what I have seen then. Usually people are hopping around like nuts.

 

[Stassin]

Flinch shots don't always hit. You're moving around and even if its a flinch shot, it can easily miss, hence the no dmg.
I've been flinched several times without taking dmg or holding block

That can't happen, flinch will only occur if you are hit and take damage (actually if you have godmode enabled it will never flinch, because you'll take 0 damage). But even a foot shot that deals 5 damage, or even less and doesn't trigger the character to emit a pain sound, will still cause a flinch.

 

[Lessen]

The whole reasoning behind flinch is that the Jedi decides to hastily block that incoming shot but is recoiled in the process, correct?

No that's swingblocking lol. You cancel your swing to block a shot, and take no damage.

 

[Vizino]

I like flinch, think about it, if you are gonna strike someone with a blade and they shoot your hand, you will pull away and be countered for it, if anything I think it adds onto the realism of MBII despite how annoying it is

 

[SomeGuy]

That can't happen, flinch will only occur if you are hit and take damage (actually if you have godmode enabled it will never flinch, because you'll take 0 damage). But even a foot shot that deals 5 damage, or even less and doesn't trigger the character to emit a pain sound, will still cause a flinch.

Well I looked back a bit and realized I misunderstood something when I asked about flinch before. In the Official thread you said this, which you probably meant for only swingblock, but since it isn't specific I took it for both swingblock and flinch.

Yes correct. The instances you saw were probably due to the blaster shot passing through the saber, thus not causing an interruption. Indeed, in v1.4, a blaster shot will only be deflected if the shot was going to hit the jedi/sith's body (or pass very close to it), otherwise it will pass through the saber without draining any FP nor impeding the saberist in any way.

I had a preconception and then looked through with derp-colored glasses. Paid attention when actually happened, and yeah, hit.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

That can't happen, flinch will only occur if you are hit and take damage (actually if you have godmode enabled it will never flinch, because you'll take 0 damage). But even a foot shot that deals 5 damage, or even less and doesn't trigger the character to emit a pain sound, will still cause a flinch.

Can't? Don't tell me can't! You don't know what I'm capable of. I could shave a wookiee if I wanted to! If only to determine gender...I mean seriously, where the female wooks at?

 

[Jediknight Fou]

I think flinch is silly as hell.
The only thing whats good at it is, i can kill as gunner a jedi/sith now and i usually hit nothing, when i think about it, its helps gunnernoobs to score.
But thats not the real problem with flinch, i mean we talking about jedi/sith dangerous masters of lightsaber and now every gunner has the balls to rush at you alone, like hes a hero.
But if they keep flinch in it, they can remove red and purple, this styles are now really useless in open, at least against classes with gun.
Only way to be usefull now is to ambush them, or stay with team and spam push or pull or both.
Well at least pull is fun, so great moments with it.^^

 

[Flooven]

i mean we talking about jedi/sith dangerous masters of lightsaber

Then they should know to swing block, and not just go in swinging like crazy.

 

[Jediknight Fou]

Swinging like crazy is now the best solution sometimes.
Since i dont care about my k/d i have no problems with sacrificing myself for the team, when i jump into a whole army to distract them.
Still flinch as it is right now ist just wrong, but i know it will not be removed (to many gunners would start to cry again).
But it needs some drastic changes, some people in this thread made good suggestions.