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I predicted it from a while away community starts shitting on the new saber changes. I am just going to spectate this thread. Maybe make 1 or 2 comments.
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Feedback Thread: v1.11 Open Beta #1 - May 25th 2024
- Thread starter MaceMadunusus
- Start date
Leo
Internal Beta Team
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the opposite is happening tho lol
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Devs should add force summon ghost, the ability Luke used in TLJ to troll Kylo surely it wouldn't be a problem as it is "respectful to lore". And the devs want to make changes that are based on cannon.
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Bug: Sabers dont hit enemies in Legends or FA.
Changing classes or saber styles had no effect.
Red Saber DFA did kill.
Probably has something to do with the new saber system.
Edit: Also the keybindings are all over the place.
I found myself unable to reload or slap with my current configs.
Example: Slap is bound as +button14 and it was changed to +button11 in the open beta test
Changing classes or saber styles had no effect.
Red Saber DFA did kill.
Probably has something to do with the new saber system.
Edit: Also the keybindings are all over the place.
I found myself unable to reload or slap with my current configs.
Example: Slap is bound as +button14 and it was changed to +button11 in the open beta test
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Hessu
Internal Beta Team
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Sabering feels much better than live. Some styles and perks need some fine tuning still. I'm not a fan of perks activating on ACM. The new HUD isn't good for dueling either, I feel like its more difficult to stay on track of your BP and ACM than it was before. And yes I tried vertical hud. Would be nice to see ACM as numbers instead of a glow.
Blue is too strong, I suggest lowering its offense to 5 or 4 and something needs to be done to its HS spam.
Purple combos might be a bit too fast, I'd make them a bit slower.
Staff feels like its a bit weak. Maybe 1 more point to defense? The spinning attacks are very difficult to land consistently but it looks good and I like the idea.
Red is fine
Yellow is fine
Cyan perks are pretty rough, not a fan of those.
Didn't get to try Duals because of the crashing issue.
Overall great work. Just adjusting offense/defense ratings and perks would be needed. Also wouldn't mind if pb on returns came back.
Noticed a bug with spectating: When the player you spectate dies, the camera stops following the player.
Also annoying bug where you can't swing immediately after slapping
Blue is too strong, I suggest lowering its offense to 5 or 4 and something needs to be done to its HS spam.
Purple combos might be a bit too fast, I'd make them a bit slower.
Staff feels like its a bit weak. Maybe 1 more point to defense? The spinning attacks are very difficult to land consistently but it looks good and I like the idea.
Red is fine
Yellow is fine
Cyan perks are pretty rough, not a fan of those.
Didn't get to try Duals because of the crashing issue.
Overall great work. Just adjusting offense/defense ratings and perks would be needed. Also wouldn't mind if pb on returns came back.
Noticed a bug with spectating: When the player you spectate dies, the camera stops following the player.
Also annoying bug where you can't swing immediately after slapping
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the simple-hud that is in the game currently is ideal for dueling, imo. Shows you acm in numbers, easy to read etc.
I'm not a fan of the new HUD either, couple that with old class bar being removed as an option...
With the limited dueling I have done I would agree that it is indeed much better than current, but I think almost anything would be.
That being said, yellow v yellow, which is pretty much what the 2 hours or so of dueling I did consisted of versus Liam felt very good, and much more rewarding than mindlessly spamming parries and running around like you do currently.
agentoo8
Internal Beta Team
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Blue
Red
Staff
Other bits
Overall, I had a great deal of fun experimenting with this over the weekend. I focused almost entirely on Staff, but from the duels I was having coupled with the feedback I was hearing from others, people seem to enjoy what the new styles have to offer and are actually excited about duelling once more.
I didn't mention Purple/Yellow/Cyan/Duals, but I know that people had varying levels of success with them, and I expect that these people will post their feedback for each respective style soon.
- Keep the damage and defense numbers.
- SUGGESTION 1: Keep the defensive perks as Blue should be the most defensive style, encouraging the user to block and defend well, drawing out the fight and capitalising on an enemy's mistakes later on.
- SUGGESTION 2: Reduce Blue's halfswing potency (this is what I would personally opt for)...
- ...OR SUGGESTION 3: Limit number of swings to 2/3.
- Blue should be a calm and collected style, looking for opportunities to hit the enemy while being an impregnable force. As it stands, Blue doesn't feel dissimilar enough from live, and while I know people will have their views on how Blue ought to be, having yet another fast and offensive style just encroaches on Cyan territory, and does little to distinguish Blue.
Red
- Feels really good. Not much else to say!
- I think it just needed some of the newer methods of staggering an opponent removed (which were). Red players are now encouraged to 'build' up their swings from afar, which really makes it feel like a proper Djem-So, i.e., using vast amounts of kinetic energy to attack the enemy.
- I feel that we have to be careful with nerfing the stagger too much; while it is annoying to face, I didn't see it as being overpowered, and it is important to give Red a means of initiating a combination, particularly against the faster styles. Given that there is no nudge, this is probably the best approach, for now.
Staff
- Very fun to play with the spins, but forces the user to 'dance' around a lot out of opponent's range to try and make use of them as countering an enemy with a spin more often than not ends up with you being interrupted by a HS.
- Not enough opportunities to make use of the Stagger perk when it is gated behind 4 ACM. I somewhat understand the reasoning behind this, but it definitely makes Staff an outlier when most other styles have access to their respective perks from the get-go, nor are they as encumbered. In addition, by the time you've hit the required level of ACM, your opponent is (more than likely) low on BP, i.e., you are in the driving seat and no longer need to make use of a defensive perk.
- The MBlock perk (block without using correct PB zones) isn't bad, per se, but doesn't really warrant using, especially if you can PB well and when factoring in the penalty for failed MBlocks.
- I envision Staff transitioning between defense and offense, ebbing and flowing, waiting for opportunities to stagger the opponent and follow up with a spin.
- SUGGESTION 1: Simplest thing would be to allow Staff to stagger without ACM (albeit at a reduced duration). ACM could then increase the duration of the stagger (optional, but would at least encourage swapping between aggressor and defender)...
- ... OR SUGGESTION 2: Reduce the ACM requirement to 2 for the stagger component to work...
- ...OR SUGGESTION 3: Give spins an additional chance to gain ACM. This means that if you pull off a spin, you'll be able to 'unlock' your defensive perk sooner...
- ...OR SUGGESTION 4: If you perform a stagger, your next swing is guaranteed to be a spin attack. Spins are very hard to pull off in a practical environment against an experienced duellist, so allowing you to immediately follow up with a spin after a successful stagger could help alleviate this somewhat. Given how hard spins hit, it would also serve as a deterrent to any opponent who is mindlessly swinging their saber around if they know that they're susceptible to a 'stagger 'n spin' wombo combo.
- Ultimately, I'd just like to see the style have a reason to play defensively, because as it stands, the best course of action (much as is the case with blue) is to be offensive.
Other bits
- Collisions seem to need a bit of work; I lost track of the number of times stabs and backstabs seemed to hit, but nothing happened.
- Not sure how others feel about the MBlock Penalty component? Takes some getting used to, but feels particularly punishing if you're trying MBlock counter/MBlock defend or to capitalise on certain styles' perks.
- PB zones take some getting used to, but seem good.
- I am a fan of slowing down certain combinations (and combinations in general).
- When jumping with Jump 2, I didn't lose any BP.
- Damage values for certain moves (backstabs and crouching red/purple back attack) seem a bit low at times.
- Swapping between Staff/Duals and another style when saber turned off just reverts back to Staff/Duals when you attack.
Overall, I had a great deal of fun experimenting with this over the weekend. I focused almost entirely on Staff, but from the duels I was having coupled with the feedback I was hearing from others, people seem to enjoy what the new styles have to offer and are actually excited about duelling once more.
I didn't mention Purple/Yellow/Cyan/Duals, but I know that people had varying levels of success with them, and I expect that these people will post their feedback for each respective style soon.
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I've been testing the saber system and it is definitely headed in a positive direction. Primarily, I've been experimenting with Yellow, which I find to be fine as it is.
Blue is currently incredibly powerful, almost overwhelmingly so. I believe its attack potency should be reduced somewhat to balance it out.
As for Red, it's delivering a significant amount of damage, which is appropriate given its aggressive nature.
Blue is currently incredibly powerful, almost overwhelmingly so. I believe its attack potency should be reduced somewhat to balance it out.
As for Red, it's delivering a significant amount of damage, which is appropriate given its aggressive nature.
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Styles:
Blue OP (Trash design, still spammy noob style - ACM drain perk and speed like slow blue in the old jedi temple FA or when we had slow blue & fast blue both in the game. Give momentum PB ala stassin to make more interesting? - main issue is how fast it gains acm, the 2x drain on bodyhit was there for a reason, but slowing speed is ideal).
Cyan (Either useless or OP, drop parry perk, make it yellow speed with 4 combo and a pbc riposte perk like mbc).
Staff is interesting (Spin mechanic good but maybe faster but less powerful spins; MB perks bad, give it 2v1 perks like bw defense and better NB instead).
Duals spammy style for spastics, but if we're going to keep it mbc needs to land consistently.
Purple pointless (make it yellow dmg and give it nudge to break/counter blue along with faster ff for Juyo larp) - the amount of parrying you can do with the special is over the top - would love for purple to get palpy's DFA instead.
Red is in a good place but the special felt out of place and useless (but please don't buff it since it looks retarded). Purple's special would be better for red.
Yellow fun, I love the oldschool A swing.
General:
Return ability to reply after chain FOR ALL STYLES; the absence of this mechanic reduces the dynamism of dueling.
*Change: Hitting too early in an attack animation reduces the damage by up to 30% depending on animation timer.
This is pointless and retarded. You have to attack top tier duelists this way to bypass PB; this literally just punishes skilled, correctly executed attacks.
Remove increased knockdown dmg (the new ACM is enough).
Increase the amount of ACM drained by an Mblock; the acm ramps very fast with spam so need skill mechanic to counter spam run meta.
Make MBC instant (like 1.4.5-1.4.9) to ensure ability to counter spam; currently still too unreliable.
Add NB (Neutral block) to the game - we NEED to distinguish between saber-hits and body-hits - just make it a flat dmg redux(10-20%) or drain partial ACM, no fancy bs. It is GROSS that a saber-tip hit is treated the same as digging your blade into the opponent's gut!
I really, really liked the faster airswings and spins.
Combo spamming felt too strong because of lack of reliable counter-attacking.
Hit-reg was weird and made micro-dodging unreliable (because saber-tip counts as bodyhit, which is unacceptable). There were also some sus extendo moments (could be server, it was horrible).
Feinting to trigger full PB in return does not work well in practice; I see no reason to not have full pb in return. If you want feinting to not be useless and stupid or bugged, make it so that one or two feints does not eat up a combo-swing, and/or have it trigger a nudge or buff the next attack.
Consider making the crouch bw viable for all styles, not just blue, staff and red, for more cool engages from distance.
HUD-wise for dueling, simple HUD with a horizontal BP bar at the bottom-centre of the screen would be ideal. With this ACM implementation, a number display would be nice.
Video of testing session:
Blue OP (Trash design, still spammy noob style - ACM drain perk and speed like slow blue in the old jedi temple FA or when we had slow blue & fast blue both in the game. Give momentum PB ala stassin to make more interesting? - main issue is how fast it gains acm, the 2x drain on bodyhit was there for a reason, but slowing speed is ideal).
Cyan (Either useless or OP, drop parry perk, make it yellow speed with 4 combo and a pbc riposte perk like mbc).
Staff is interesting (Spin mechanic good but maybe faster but less powerful spins; MB perks bad, give it 2v1 perks like bw defense and better NB instead).
Duals spammy style for spastics, but if we're going to keep it mbc needs to land consistently.
Purple pointless (make it yellow dmg and give it nudge to break/counter blue along with faster ff for Juyo larp) - the amount of parrying you can do with the special is over the top - would love for purple to get palpy's DFA instead.
Red is in a good place but the special felt out of place and useless (but please don't buff it since it looks retarded). Purple's special would be better for red.
Yellow fun, I love the oldschool A swing.
General:
Return ability to reply after chain FOR ALL STYLES; the absence of this mechanic reduces the dynamism of dueling.
*Change: Hitting too early in an attack animation reduces the damage by up to 30% depending on animation timer.
This is pointless and retarded. You have to attack top tier duelists this way to bypass PB; this literally just punishes skilled, correctly executed attacks.
Remove increased knockdown dmg (the new ACM is enough).
Increase the amount of ACM drained by an Mblock; the acm ramps very fast with spam so need skill mechanic to counter spam run meta.
Make MBC instant (like 1.4.5-1.4.9) to ensure ability to counter spam; currently still too unreliable.
Add NB (Neutral block) to the game - we NEED to distinguish between saber-hits and body-hits - just make it a flat dmg redux(10-20%) or drain partial ACM, no fancy bs. It is GROSS that a saber-tip hit is treated the same as digging your blade into the opponent's gut!
I really, really liked the faster airswings and spins.
Combo spamming felt too strong because of lack of reliable counter-attacking.
Hit-reg was weird and made micro-dodging unreliable (because saber-tip counts as bodyhit, which is unacceptable). There were also some sus extendo moments (could be server, it was horrible).
Feinting to trigger full PB in return does not work well in practice; I see no reason to not have full pb in return. If you want feinting to not be useless and stupid or bugged, make it so that one or two feints does not eat up a combo-swing, and/or have it trigger a nudge or buff the next attack.
Consider making the crouch bw viable for all styles, not just blue, staff and red, for more cool engages from distance.
HUD-wise for dueling, simple HUD with a horizontal BP bar at the bottom-centre of the screen would be ideal. With this ACM implementation, a number display would be nice.
Video of testing session:
Leo
Internal Beta Team
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just in first few seconds we can see;
parry hits landing instantly (teleporting, it was in live as a bug in january) which causes faster styles to break the parry and gain advantage
unable to do any attack input after a slap for a while (insanely gamebreaking)
and I do agree that MB counters just need to be stronger/faster Currently it feels like no counter even properly works as its gonna get interrupted in most cases, especially against faster styles
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Hessu
Internal Beta Team
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I was wondering why I got out of the parry and interrupted instead. This explains it
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then grab should be a separate button entirely (not really, there's already too many key bindings as it is). It's already a high risk, meh reward type move, people will either stop using grab or just create a script to work around this change.
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although maybe not intended, the removal of pb on returns now allows red counters to bleed into your BP even if you're playing good defense/pblocking. And along with the other animation/defense buffs, that's a bit too strong.
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If we're going to keep blue's speed, we have to fix the spam in dueling because, strong or not, it feels really bad to fight against. Nerfing its ACM with 2x drain on bodyhits is a balance solution, but the style will remain annoying to fight.
The trouble lies with blue's extremely fast swing resets. If it were on pace with yellow here, it might alleviate some of the cancerous spam without ruining its ability to execute fast swings; (it's the infinite chaining of the fast swings that should be eliminated from the game somehow).
Making blue swings reset slower would instantly fix the style, then it just becomes a question of balancing it appropriately. Duelists basically need an opening or gap, but because blue's reset is near instantaneous, only very experienced players stand a chance at finding or creating such a gap: this is the main reason of the cancer, not the fast hs, it's that there's almost no rest period between chains.
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I'm gonna say something completely unrelated but im happy with most of the changes in duel mode, this will probably be my only comment on duel mode because i like it way more than the beta open mode.
What is confusing about a lot of parries/interrupts in the beta is how people are able to interrupt your swings while you feel that you're in the middle of a fast combo that will surely land.
The gaps that exist are hard to see and figure out, Vange using purple was constantly able to interrupt my yellow combos even after my first swing lands. Against a slow style like purple that was completely unexpected, i felt last weekend that i got interrupted way more dueling against staff and purple than any other style.
Maybe this is intentional maybe not, but there were a lot of instant counters and confusing parry/interrupt sequences in last week's beta. I felt that sometimes there would not be the sparks or sound that indicated an interrupt, so often times I was unable to tell if I had just been interrupted several times or if we had parried eachother.