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No way, I remember asking for that many years ago
Keep up the good work
Feedback Thread: v1.11 Open Beta #1 - May 25th 2024
- Thread starter MaceMadunusus
- Start date
Keep up the good work
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Effort post on what I don't like:
Force attunement 3 is something you can pick to play a dotf main pushbot because you won't kill any gunner with more than 2 braincells using blaster defense 1, while blaster defense 3 is just straight up useless. Why? Because you can't use level 2 force powers with it. Most other classes are either as fast or faster than jedi/sith meaning they can just run away from you if you have BD3, you need some kind of threat to force them to walk or something to catch up to them.
This means to actually play the game (as sith, jedi can still run around with mt and speed) and not be a pushbot you're gonna be picking BD2 and pull 2 (and people are already crying to nerf pull even though its just straight up worse than in current patch???), but ARC is just straight up immune to gun stealing, making that class even stronger than it is right now.
If we look at the ARC rework with dex, and the recent mando rework, look how different the approach is. ARC can get pistols 3, m5 with scope, dex 3 and full armor.Where is the compromise that class is making?
Mandalorian is the same case: pistols, a sniper rifle, jetpack, beskar, full armor, where is the compromise?
Both of these classes get insane armament to kill gunners AND great tools to deal with saberists while having great mobility and being incredibly tanky. Meanwhile jedi/sith have to make big compromises to their playstyles forcing them into narrow lanes of what they can and can't do. I'm just doubtful about the direction/philosophy, jedi/sith might even be op right now, i've no clue, it needs way more testing because it's up to values of regens and fp drains.
That's the thoughts for now, overall i like the dueling flow, more playtesting required to make an opinion on balance.
EDIT:
Getting displaced with force powers while having full fp and forceblock 3 is very annoying and legitimately unplayable, the blaster deflection angle affecting fp drain also feels terrible
This is nice in duel, imo makes it more visually clear what's happening and makes styles like blue less spammable. In open however it makes any style other than red just useless vs wookiee with how long it takes to hit them more than once. Wookiee charge is still bugged to stagger multiple times btw.
So the 1.3 cancer is back. I don't think anybody ever liked this, it's not fun to play against, it's just mindless parry spam that either is bad because the stats are too weak, but it's still annoying to play against because it takes ages to beat, or the stats are too good and you just spam to win.
Worth noting it also got its animations sped up so it's not insanely useless but still why would you ever use this over red? It doesn't 1 shot wookiees, it's slower than red and also red staggers so your gunners can shoot for free. Has worse stats (marginally) and perks and also got its stab removed for some useless kata that you don't ever want to use.
This regen feels quite slow to me, and i don't mean jedi/sith are bad now vs gunners because of it, but because you're gonna spend so much time sitting behind cover because you got shot a few times or used a force power, slowing the game down (which is the same issue heal would have and devs don't want to add it to open for that reason).
I don't mind the reduction of knockdown mechanics (can't wait till quickthrow and blobs get the same treatment), but let's look at the state of saber vs gunner now.
Force attunement 3 is something you can pick to play a dotf main pushbot because you won't kill any gunner with more than 2 braincells using blaster defense 1, while blaster defense 3 is just straight up useless. Why? Because you can't use level 2 force powers with it. Most other classes are either as fast or faster than jedi/sith meaning they can just run away from you if you have BD3, you need some kind of threat to force them to walk or something to catch up to them.
This means to actually play the game (as sith, jedi can still run around with mt and speed) and not be a pushbot you're gonna be picking BD2 and pull 2 (and people are already crying to nerf pull even though its just straight up worse than in current patch???), but ARC is just straight up immune to gun stealing, making that class even stronger than it is right now.
If we look at the ARC rework with dex, and the recent mando rework, look how different the approach is. ARC can get pistols 3, m5 with scope, dex 3 and full armor.Where is the compromise that class is making?
Please let us use it with the new hud.
That's the thoughts for now, overall i like the dueling flow, more playtesting required to make an opinion on balance.
EDIT:
Getting displaced with force powers while having full fp and forceblock 3 is very annoying and legitimately unplayable, the blaster deflection angle affecting fp drain also feels terrible
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.biggs
uM Team Mapper
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kk if people wanna sit here and shit talk than I'll say something good as a change cos fuck off.
I've already said it on his disc, but well done Tempest; literally everyone doubted you for so many years but you fucking smashed it out mate and you're doing your own shit and I respect it --- now, is it perfect? no, absolutely not but ur so fucking close mate.
and now copy and paste from disc msg:
this concept of blue stopping BP regen that is dog shit; I have witnessed it fail to work in terms of game feel and heard the complaints from other duelers. no one likes it
rework that perk and also increase blue dmg by like 10% (cos u reduced chain swing speed)-- purple could also could do with a tiny swing speed increase following the first hit
just a tiny increase to help purple catch runners
I've already said it on his disc, but well done Tempest; literally everyone doubted you for so many years but you fucking smashed it out mate and you're doing your own shit and I respect it --- now, is it perfect? no, absolutely not but ur so fucking close mate.
and now copy and paste from disc msg:
this concept of blue stopping BP regen that is dog shit; I have witnessed it fail to work in terms of game feel and heard the complaints from other duelers. no one likes it
rework that perk and also increase blue dmg by like 10% (cos u reduced chain swing speed)-- purple could also could do with a tiny swing speed increase following the first hit
just a tiny increase to help purple catch runners
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Played a bit today, so far I'm not liking sabering changes. I will keep my feedback very brief as to focus on the most important things in my opinion.
NOTE: There were things I liked, for example some perks and maunal backstab.
Let's start with this one
So: we have some problem to solve, then solution, expected outcome and actual outcome. Let's go.
Problem
Yawing can be confusing for new players, as it makes it less clear what opponent is doing. Not only that but swings also come faster than most new players can react, thus obstructing their engagement PB mechanics.
Confused new player can become frustrated player and leave the game. So, it's bad and i guess we have a problem on our hand.
Current solution
As much as it is fun to shit on people, I say our community is actually in a sense can be a very nice place. It's actually amazing how many people are eager to help new players with learning game mechanics.
So yes, current solution is that we sometimes try to teach new players to help them understand the system and be better.
It might not be a technical solution but it is there, it evolved naturally over the years, and so far helped many-many new players to fall in love with this game.
Expected outcome
Damage reduction when hitting too early in an attack will make people yaw less thus making it easier to see and block.
Actual outcome
It's not going to work like that, because, you see, you simply cannot reliably break through someone who can PB with just normal fully extended attacks. You need to mask, you need to yaw, else you will be doing no damage at all.
Against top players (myself not even remotely included) even masking and yawing should be on the whole different level to be effective.
It is also not about a choice: "Am I doing faster attack that does less damage or make fully extended attack with nomral damage?".
No you don't. You're either doing your fastest and most unpredictable shit you can pull off or not doing any damage at all.
In other words, actual outcome of this change cannot really help with visibility, because duelist's goal is to make swings as unpredictable as possible. Junk is INHERENT to current aimed PB system. And me personally loving this junk and the depth it creates.
What this change actually will do is make high level duels slower because of reduced damage and that's it.
Problem
I cannot fathom what problem this change tries to solve. This cannot be to help new players in any way, because, generally, people who can reliably PB on returns - are not new players. And new players won't get anything out of occasional single 0.75x damage swing against a player who can PB on returns.
Or is it to create some pressure for defensive playstyles? So that when they attack no matter how good they are with PB they will recieve some damage anyway. Maybe but this feels absolutely unfair to punish people for perfectly executing PB. That actually requires skill, that some players cherish.
I was also going to rant about how this change is probably made to cover up for some other unneccessary change but i will refrain from this. Simply to keep this conversation civil. No, im not liking these sabering changes as you might be able to tell.
As I cannot reason why this change is made I cannot then deduce expected outcome out of it.
Problem
Same as before, visibility and readability. New players suffer a lot in this game.
Expected outcome
Same as before, I think this change is made to help people better see whats happening. Im not entirely against this one, but kinda iffy.
Actual outcome
Don't worry duelists will adapt to it, and will find a way to make combos as fucked up and unpredictable as possible, or they will simply leave. Because, and I will repeat myself, the problem you're trying to solve here is not with combo speed or yawing, it is inherent to aimed pb system, as long as it exists people will try to make themselves unpblockable to get through it.
NOTE: There were things I liked, for example some perks and maunal backstab.
Let's start with this one
Every change must have some intention behind it, right? I'm not a part of mb2 team so can only guess. But let me guess anyway.
So: we have some problem to solve, then solution, expected outcome and actual outcome. Let's go.
Problem
Yawing can be confusing for new players, as it makes it less clear what opponent is doing. Not only that but swings also come faster than most new players can react, thus obstructing their engagement PB mechanics.
Confused new player can become frustrated player and leave the game. So, it's bad and i guess we have a problem on our hand.
Current solution
As much as it is fun to shit on people, I say our community is actually in a sense can be a very nice place. It's actually amazing how many people are eager to help new players with learning game mechanics.
So yes, current solution is that we sometimes try to teach new players to help them understand the system and be better.
It might not be a technical solution but it is there, it evolved naturally over the years, and so far helped many-many new players to fall in love with this game.
Expected outcome
Damage reduction when hitting too early in an attack will make people yaw less thus making it easier to see and block.
Actual outcome
It's not going to work like that, because, you see, you simply cannot reliably break through someone who can PB with just normal fully extended attacks. You need to mask, you need to yaw, else you will be doing no damage at all.
Against top players (myself not even remotely included) even masking and yawing should be on the whole different level to be effective.
It is also not about a choice: "Am I doing faster attack that does less damage or make fully extended attack with nomral damage?".
No you don't. You're either doing your fastest and most unpredictable shit you can pull off or not doing any damage at all.
In other words, actual outcome of this change cannot really help with visibility, because duelist's goal is to make swings as unpredictable as possible. Junk is INHERENT to current aimed PB system. And me personally loving this junk and the depth it creates.
What this change actually will do is make high level duels slower because of reduced damage and that's it.
Problem
I cannot fathom what problem this change tries to solve. This cannot be to help new players in any way, because, generally, people who can reliably PB on returns - are not new players. And new players won't get anything out of occasional single 0.75x damage swing against a player who can PB on returns.
Or is it to create some pressure for defensive playstyles? So that when they attack no matter how good they are with PB they will recieve some damage anyway. Maybe but this feels absolutely unfair to punish people for perfectly executing PB. That actually requires skill, that some players cherish.
I was also going to rant about how this change is probably made to cover up for some other unneccessary change but i will refrain from this. Simply to keep this conversation civil. No, im not liking these sabering changes as you might be able to tell.
As I cannot reason why this change is made I cannot then deduce expected outcome out of it.
Problem
Same as before, visibility and readability. New players suffer a lot in this game.
Expected outcome
Same as before, I think this change is made to help people better see whats happening. Im not entirely against this one, but kinda iffy.
Actual outcome
Don't worry duelists will adapt to it, and will find a way to make combos as fucked up and unpredictable as possible, or they will simply leave. Because, and I will repeat myself, the problem you're trying to solve here is not with combo speed or yawing, it is inherent to aimed pb system, as long as it exists people will try to make themselves unpblockable to get through it.
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.biggs
uM Team Mapper
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it helps to reduce face spam meta. anyone can spam inputs fast; it should not be "rewarded"
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Not sure if you saw any of the discussions on the Discord but the damage clamping on the early parts of the swing is actually quite hard to trigger (hard to show without a video). It should really only be kicking in if you are hitting pre-angled swings that instantly hit. Fast yaws are still very viable but it just discourages that one particular aspect of facehugging.
Full PB in returns overshadow a lot of potential aspects of gameplay and force certain styles of play to be meta/not viable. Making it a little less powerful allows for more variation in strategy. It's still viable to block the hits in the returns as long as you're landing your hits and not just constantly trading without thinking a little bit about what you're doing.
Most of the changes are intended to either kill specific cheese (e.g. special damage reduction and instant hit timing damage reduction), allow more variety in what's actually viable, or bring up some bits that are not particularly viable at any level of skill (interrupt changes not completely stopping swings and instead allowing for a worse counter sequence). There's more potential changes that a lot of the dueling community brainstormed together but I wanted a more solid foundation before trying to layer more and more stuff on top. Some stuff is a bit over the top (e.g. Blue BP delays on hits) but I was already expecting this but just wanted to see how it'd play out and see if it shook things up without being turbo broken. Easy enough to remove if it did (and it will likely be gone on the set of adjustments after today's).
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too much stuff what the fuck is this man I wasn't expecting 100 different changes and man the saber system is way too confusing with all the new drains and attunement crap, the ui is ugly as hell. Just simplify the game not add all this bullshit you guys cant even fix flinch and you're trying to add all this garbage to the game i hope none of it makes it live
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Two absolute spot-on points from kwinto here.
In the tempest saber tests last year, cyan was undoubtedly too strong with how you can force parries the entire duel and not lose any BP.
In this current open beta test, "attunement" and "blaster defense" are the changes that confuse me the most. Who was asking for this? I would be surprised if it was top gunner players in the EU playerbase because they already destroy nearly every jedi nearly every time (and it would be quite ridiculous for top gunner players to be crying for change to lvl 3 force powers when push/pull 3 is often the only way to kill them and their sub 25 ping and 100+fov).
Wanting to pidgeonhole saberists to either be able to use lvl 3 force powers or not instantly die to any half-decent gunner is insane to me. FP drains are already the highest that they have ever been, like kwinto said where is the compromise that gunners have to make? Since the FP drain rework ~2018, gunners vs sabers has been fine and more balanced than it has ever been in the history of this game. These changes make balance go the other way past the tipping point. If you want to make sabers in open get completely bodied by every gunner then you're doing the right things. Past updates that reduced the defensive arc of sabers already made it significantly harder to just run past a single gunner, now there's VIEW-BASED fp drain? are you throwing darts at a board of shitty ideas to implement these changes? what a waste of time making code.
Not surprised that there's all these cancer nerfs to jedi/sith, though, as I believe that no single dev plays the game (and it is a game by the way, not the e-sport that some people want it to be. in my eyes if a game wants to be an e-sport it should have been tuned towards that from its conception, as these major changes will only push new and for fun players away).
Leo
Internal Beta Team
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It does damage but it's hit reg is really clunky
not even close
jedi/sith are by far the strongest/most impactful class in the game on live and require 0 aim
i'm not saying the beta patch is balanced, i played it for like 30 mins, but reworking the points for jedi/sith so they can't just get everything they want is probably a good idea
also push 2 (which is the one you can get with blaster def >1) now requires you to aim, based change
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yes they require 0 aim but what? Colosseum server is constantly dotfclassicb with you and fang/luna and DB cooper top scoring as bowcaster wookie or BH/hero or t21 elite soldier, do you really think saber is the strongest and most impactful?
I will concede a small bit and say that the best gunners may like to have a saber player with them to negate enemy sabers as well as push projectiles and knock down enemy gunners. But does jedi/sith being very strong in a supporting role make them the most impactful class? I usually see gunners 1v16 while I stand nearby them like a good boy catching the attention of all the braindead gunners on the enemy team
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You are the spirit of Open sith/jedi here. Spit the facts.
Also you really feel how you are the strongest/most impactful class in the game on live when trying to kill that T21 Commander as jedi.
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Right, so only the very best players can kill a mediocre jedi/sith and you think that's a problem ?
I'm onboard with Kerti here, you might find it shitty dying to someone with a gun, but currently it is much easier for you to spam a and d on your keyboard than it is for me to track you perfectly and drain your fp, not to mention if I let go of walk or crouch for a second I'm vulnerable to push/pull...
Or god forbid I step foot on a set of stairs and just get insta gibbed.
So not only do you regain FP, you have all the best utility and a one shot weapon while I can't run from you without risking being pushed to the floor and dying. Point is, you have to play VERY well to kill even a semi competent jedi/sith and not vice versa.
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Sup BlazeJKA
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sup yle