Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 4

[Blazer]

@MaceMadunusus
I feel like a complete tard for saying this: What's IDR again?
Isn't IDR the mechanic of higher FP drain the closer Jedi are?

If so, does 1.4.9 have IDR?

Also I quote from @MaceMadunusus "Don't make it worse and return us closer to the garbage that was 1.3"
I may not remember too much about that update, but I can tell you it made me want to kill my self. Especially the Cyan Deflect shit.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

I feel like a complete tard for saying this: What's IDR again?
Isn't IDR the mechanic of higher FP drain the closer Jedi are?

That is correct. IDR stands for Ideal Drain Range (Or Increased Drain Range whichever you prefer it really doesn't matter). Basically looks something like this:

0 distance being the jedi is on top of you draining more than it does at a distance.

Many games have similar systems to this with basic weapon damage as well (even while also having bullet drop).

If so, does 1.4.9 have IDR?

Yup, but the scaling is all wrong IMO which is what I was talking about at the end of my post.

 

[MuscBodypillow]

Just an idea out there, can we have wookies not be immune to nades. Wooks in xv1 are manageable but in 1v1 or xv2 having them resist nades mean that your only hope is to shoot them before their claw reach. The fallback could be made shorter or just give a decent knockback in order to stave off a melee wooks.

 

[Dra-Gon]

Making them vulnerable to nade knock down effects would be imo too much if they paid for strength 2 or 3.
What about a sonic-grenade like effect against wookiees? (e.g. a minor slow-down and melee attack / weapon swap / melee ability prevention) - something in the sense of wookiees losing a bit of balance when hit by rocket or primary grenade and lasting for about a second.

Not sure how useful it would actually be, tho.

 

[Blazer]

Just an idea out there, can we have wookies not be immune to nades. Wooks in xv1 are manageable but in 1v1 or xv2 having them resist nades mean that your only hope is to shoot them before their claw reach. The fallback could be made shorter or just give a decent knockback in order to stave off a melee wooks.

That's a good way to destroy the wookie class.
Woo kids should not be able to be knocked over by anything if they have strength. That's the whole point of Wookie.

Personally I've never had a problem fighting woke as a gunner. They are extremely easy to dodge. If they push you, by the time they reach you they should have almost no health. It just depends whether you suck or not.

Basically if a Wookie rushes you, he should have all his health gone by the time he reaches you, then you juke him for 2 seconds while crouching. If he isn't dead by then, that's your fault.

Also melee Wookie is extremely bad vs gunners. I don't understand why is so hard, Mellee Wookies literally just have to run at you completely defenseless and with no gun, just so they can possibly knock you down. The only reason people complain about Wookies is because the Wookie pops out of corners and kills them, or they don't understand how to crouch at the right times.


But if we're talking about Wookie, HOLY SHIT PLEASE NERF GODCASTER.

 

[Sevarose]

I've played on the EU Beta server from time to time and I'm reasonably happy with the changes. However, today I was playing as a Bounty Hunter and using the poison dart on some Jedi, as you do. I wasn't actually aware of the FP debuff change and the apparent 50% damage reduction for it. I must protest against these changes as I feel the poison dart doesn't serve it's original purpose.

Whenever I've played in open I've used poison darts on Jedi, making them stay back, punishing them for pushing or to get some pressure on. Without the FP debuff in beta however, this isn't the case. Jedi can just do the usual block and push towards you like they're not even under the effects. I'm not entirely sure why this change was made or am I missing something here? I've never really seen the poison dart needing a nerf because smart Jedi will retreat and meditate for a bit, reducing the damage to them and giving them a chance to regain their FP.

Alright, I don't mind the damage reduction change, that's fine. But I urge you to keep the FP regen debuff, otherwise I just don't see the point of even using it in the first place. If you don't do that then you could at least revert the damage back to normal or possibly make it so the distortion effect is a bit more...effective.

 

[Blazer]

I've played on the EU Beta server from time to time and I'm reasonably happy with the changes. However, today I was playing as a Bounty Hunter and using the poison dart on some Jedi, as you do. I wasn't actually aware of the FP debuff change and the apparent 50% damage reduction for it. I must protest against these changes as I feel the poison dart doesn't serve it's original purpose.

Whenever I've played in open I've used poison darts on Jedi, making them stay back, punishing them for pushing or to get some pressure on. Without the FP debuff in beta however, this isn't the case. Jedi can just do the usual block and push towards you like they're not even under the effects. I'm not entirely sure why this change was made or am I missing something here? I've never really seen the poison dart needing a nerf because smart Jedi will retreat and meditate for a bit, reducing the damage to them and giving them a chance to regain their FP.

Alright, I don't mind the damage reduction change, that's fine. But I urge you to keep the FP regen debuff, otherwise I just don't see the point of even using it in the first place. If you don't do that then you could at least revert the damage back to normal or possibly make it so the distortion effect is a bit more...effective.

I feel the change is necessary, Jedi already take massive amounts of fp drain, and if they weren't able to regain fp for that long, they would literally have no chance unless you were the only gunner around.

I mean the fp drains are already insane, like a jedi takes 20-23 fp drain while running against P3 at medium range, so you shouldn't be able to poison dart them and shoot him 5 times and kill him. It'd be too unfair.

 

[Sevarose]

I feel the change is necessary, Jedi already take massive amounts of fp drain, and if they weren't able to regain fp for that long, they would literally have no chance unless you were the only gunner around.

I mean the fp drains are already insane, like a jedi takes 20-23 fp drain while running against P3 at medium range, so you shouldn't be able to poison dart them and shoot him 5 times and kill him. It'd be too unfair.

It's not unfair, it's the fact that the Jedi is running against P3 at medium range. Poison Dart just makes Jedi back off or play a bit smarter, putting them off from pushing into the enemy team. It's always been a support tool for your team's gunners, especially when the enemy team spams Jedi it's pretty difficult to drain their FP low enough to actually kill them when you're worrying about 3 Jedi at once. The Poison Dart doesn't need to be changed because it's fine how it was.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Example case of blobs not working in a fun way: MB2 Open Beta: Blobs are not worth - Create, Discover and Share GIFs on Gfycat

I played bad. I was not evasive. Poor play like this ought to be something a Clone can punish.

 

[Sir Crusher]

I played bad. I was not evasive. Poor play like this ought to be something a Clone can punish.

What do you suggest? Rolling back to the public version, increasing fp drains?

 

[Lessen]

rolls up in a tour bus that says "The Ideas Guy" on the side
gets out wearing a shirt that says "The Ideas Guy" on the front
Hi, it's me, the Ideas Guy.

Regarding the clip @GoodOl'Ben posted above, what if one or both of these rules were applied:
- During the stagger, you can't run. You can only walk. Y'know, like someone who's staggering. Impaired movement.
- Little-to-no cooldown between when clone fires a blob and when clone can fire a followup shot. Lets clone capitalize on the stagger more easily, lets clone land some followup shots during the stagger.

(the two problems shown in Ben's clip were:
1. There was a long pause between when the blob landed and when the clone started shooting followup shots. Unless I'm totally mis-remembering, this is because of a cooldown between shooting blob and resuming regular fire.
2. While staggering, Ben was able to evade pretty easily by running.)

((I want a forum label under my name that says "The Ideas Guy." It's a dig at how freely I sling ideas without contributing actual work of any kind. People who are all-ideas-and-no-action are bad! Or should at least feel some shame about it.))

 

[Lessen]

It's also worth noting that the clone coulda just kept spamming you as you walked, and coulda blobbed you out of the air when you jumped. He arguably played the situation quite wrong.

But if you want clones to be able to really punish lazy walking like they can in the public build, my suggestions stand

p.s. your gif was such a neat little self-contained MB2 highlight that I shared it to /r/gaming to try to suck in some more players. It's such a clean decapitation.

 

[MuscBodypillow]

((I want a forum label under my name that says "The Ideas Guy." It's a dig at how freely I sling ideas without contributing actual work of any kind. People who are all-ideas-and-no-action are bad! Or should at least feel some shame about it.))

Welp you got what you wished for.

And I agree that the movement restriction on top of the stagger is a nice middle ground between the stagger alone and falling.

 

[Lessen]

Welp you got what you wished for.

Naw the "Nerd" label is automatically given once you reach 1000 posts.

Note the er scoreboard here.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

coulda blobbed you out of the air when you jumped. He arguably played the situation quite wrong.

He was coming off of cooldown at best at that situation. This late into the round, assuming Stam3+Blob1 he could also be looking at a no-blobs situation after the first one.

What do you suggest? Rolling back to the public version, increasing fp drains?

Increasing FP drains on the Clone Rifle is a bad choice as this will easily turn the Level 3 of the weapon into an overpowered monster. The Clone/Sith match-up should revolve around successful Blobs, not FP drain. Homogenizing all weapons to have similar combat properties vs Jedi/Sith is boring design. The more match-ups have a unique kink to them, the better.

I don't think the match-up is nearly as off-balance to warrant these kinds of anti-fun changes as the stagger thing. Gunners fight from a distance for most part and giving Clones a strong spot up close only adds to fun power dynamics and match-up specific strategies emerging, so the Blob should remain a powerhouse. The Sith/Clone match-up has always felt exciting to me.

The Blob damage dropped from 20 to 10. This increases emphasis on a successful follow-up to any knockdown you give. You'll have to land 1 shot more to kill as a result.

Blob amounts adjusted to 2-4-8 to give importance to each use of a Blob and encourage build variety.

Increase Blob cooldown by 2 seconds to add even more weight to using a Blob. You should not be able to fire more than one Blob in a fight. It's either your tool of initiation or last line of defense. Increasing the cooldown will put emphasis on accuracy, timing and strategy.

Right now CR2+Stamina3+Blob1 is the best in the biz followed by CR2+Stam2+Blob2. Running out of blobs is common on the firstly mentioned build, but generally the 3 blobs you have will deal immense hurt. The Stamina 2 build trades off speed sustain during long fights in order to never run out of Blobs. As it stands there is no purpose for Level 3 ever. As a result that should remain strong.

These changes add emphasis for the choice to Blob, landing the Blob and making a successful follow-up to the Blob. All increasing the skill involved.

Stagger on walking targets adds to frustration due to a hard-counter mechanic that can be activated on a split-second's notice. It removes juice from the ability. It muddles the game into boringness. It reduces highs and reduces lows.

Current live version design encourages Sith to play fast and evasive while approaching. This allows us to keep the Clone Rifle 2 FP drains low since Sith will generally run/jump more in the match-up. Clones need to make their blobs count or risk getting lightning or other forms of CC. This is fun gameplay. Balance can be altered, but the gameplay is fun.

 

[President Bossk]

Personally, I think blobs were fine the way they were.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Personally, I think blobs were fine the way they were.

But the clone as a whole isn't. It has good firepower, amazing mobility and survivability, and can have direct counters to any class - blobs vs saberists and ions vs gunners.

This class is a master of all trades and I believe it should be toned down. Blob can stay as is, but something needs to change.

 

[Sir Crusher]

I don't think the match-up is nearly as off-balance to warrant these kinds of anti-fun changes as the stagger thing. Gunners fight from a distance for most part and giving Clones a strong spot up close only adds to fun power dynamics and match-up specific strategies emerging, so the Blob should remain a powerhouse.

It doesn't add fun, I must say. You only reach that conclusion because you're not taking other classes into account. It's a fun experience for a clone to blob someone, but it feels like a nightmare to be blobbed, because it's unpredictable and impossible to dodge. It's even worse for gunners, because clones naturally tend to force a close quarters situation.

 

[k4far]

What we wanted to change from public build were instant KD from blobs.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

It doesn't add fun, I must say. You only reach that conclusion because you're not taking other classes into account. It's a fun experience for a clone to blob someone, but it feels like a nightmare to be blobbed, because it's unpredictable and impossible to dodge. It's even worse for gunners, because clones naturally tend to force a close quarters situation.

Blobs are not unpredictable. They are bound to happen. Avoid prolonged direct line of sight until one has been fired, otherwise you should have a strategy to make the shot miss.

Gunners have tools to avoid close quarters. Plus classes are supposed to have these differences in power based on proximity. Otherwise we might as well have no classes at all. A Clone is a swift frontline bruiser first and foremost, so it's natural for the class to dish out the hurt up close. Engage at a distance.

Lessened damage will reduce times that the knockdown kills you.

But the clone as a whole isn't. It has good firepower, amazing mobility and survivability, and can have direct counters to any class - blobs vs saberists and ions vs gunners.

This class is a master of all trades and I believe it should be toned down. Blob can stay as is, but something needs to change.

Yes, but it needs to happen slowly. Not like in this beta.

I would prefer gradual strokes rather than broad ones that are being painted in these open betas. You can't balance a game by shifting from one extreme to the other.