Feedback Thread: Open Beta (after V1.4.9) - Drop 2

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I like the idea of no DR at all.
I don't mind the sideroll, forcewhore, and TK DR tho. Sideroll and Forcewhore are already basically "bad" options and the little buff doesn't change that. TK DR is just a nice thing to have on a class that has a tendency to throw itself into team fire.
 

GoodOl'Ben

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@Tempest @GoodOl'Ben Don't know which one of you is in charge of this, but I think that Damage reduction should apply to all jedi with saber defense, not just those without a saber. As defenseless jedi in general need a buff, not just force whores.
Anything is ultimately my fault as nothing goes in without my nod. Tempest is doing the biggest legwork in actualizing everything and a source for most jedi vs gun ideas running amok in tests.
 
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some thoughts (disclaimer, I almost exclusively play saberist because other classes bore me)

1. I like how swing-blocking deflects the shot now in lieu of the current method

2. RMB-blocking shots feels very bad. Deflect needs to be adjusted to complete this circle as I can't see many reasons to be doing anything as a saberist other than a. hiding b. rushing gunners. I know this is going to be difficult to balance because of how there is no cool-down on FP regen so I can see why things are the way they are.

3. I'm not sure how I feel about the DR removal yet. I can see why it was done (see #1 and the latter part of #2), but it's had a consequence of making wook and cortosis-SBD pretty obnoxious to deal with as well as mando flame-wrist.

Basically, if I had to sum up these changes, I would say they've magnified the class-counter properties that already existed amongst the gunner-saberist dynamic. If that's what you were going for, great. But you may need to consider some specific balance concerns as outlined in 3.
 
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some thoughts (disclaimer, I almost exclusively play saberist because other classes bore me)

1. I like how swing-blocking deflects the shot now in lieu of the current method

2. RMB-blocking shots feels very bad. Deflect needs to be adjusted to complete this circle as I can't see many reasons to be doing anything as a saberist other than a. hiding b. rushing gunners. I know this is going to be difficult to balance because of how there is no cool-down on FP regen so I can see why things are the way they are.

3. I'm not sure how I feel about the DR removal yet. I can see why it was done (see #1 and the latter part of #2), but it's had a consequence of making wook and cortosis-SBD pretty obnoxious to deal with as well as mando flame-wrist.

Basically, if I had to sum up these changes, I would say they've magnified the class-counter properties that already existed amongst the gunner-saberist dynamic. If that's what you were going for, great. But you may need to consider some specific balance concerns as outlined in 3.
I agree that flames/burning do slightly too much damage, maybe it could be set as a relative amount rather than an absolute amount, as far as wook goes, crouch. Considering sbd, I think some tweaks should be coming soon.
 
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I agree that flames/burning do slightly too much damage, maybe it could be set as a relative amount rather than an absolute amount, as far as wook goes, crouch. Considering sbd, I think some tweaks should be coming soon.
wooks can run up and punch you to death before a combo swing unless youre using red and jump swinging, they dont even need to knock you down anymore.

the dr removal has basically equalized the difference between crouching and swinging. it's less beneficial to the wook for the wook to try to knock you down versus them just dancing around and punching.

I'm not saying it's not possible for the saberist to still get a combo off but it's turned into even more of a latency/yaw battle. I'm primarily trying to bring attention to some things that may have been overlooked as side-effects of DR removal. if the above was intended then whatever, people will adapt
 

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1. I like how swing-blocking deflects the shot now in lieu of the current method
What do you mean by this? If a swingblock gets shot, the swing cancels and the swinger blocks the shot at some FP drains (which are lower if you have Saber Defense 3). What are you saying has changed between the Public Build and the Open Beta, with regards to swingblock? As far as I know, it behaves the same way (aside from the drains being different.)
 
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What do you mean by this? If a swingblock gets shot, the swing cancels and the swinger blocks the shot at some FP drains (which are lower if you have Saber Defense 3). What are you saying has changed between the Public Build and the Open Beta, with regards to swingblock? As far as I know, it behaves the same way (aside from the drains being different.)
exactly what I wrote. I notice swing blocking actually deflects the shot at an fp drain on beta

maybe its just harder on current build and has always been there but I notice a difference going back and forth. maybe there was some spaghetti code with flinch and taking flinch out lets the animation play out better
 

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Deflects, as in, sends it back towards your crosshair if you've also purchased Deflect?

Just to be clear.

Does it work at very close ranges?
 
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Deflects, as in, sends it back towards your crosshair if you've also purchased Deflect?

Just to be clear.

Does it work at very close ranges?
Deflects as in the blaster fire reflects off the saber and goes somewhere.

I haven't tried it in awhile and I wasn't actually trying to deflect into the Gunner (was yawing etc) so I don't remember if the bolt was anywhere near the crosshairs and I can't remember if I had d3 (I probably didnt). But what I experienced was melee range because we were testing swinging on a Gunner.

ETA:. Now that I'm thinking back I'm pretty sure a shot got reflected into the gunner once or twice but I was probably almost on top of them. Don't think I tried to aim it at them.
 

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Deflects as in the blaster fire reflects off the saber and goes somewhere.
Blaster fire reflecting off the saber and going somewhere is what happens every time a shot is blocked by a saber. So.. that's just typical swingblock behavior because that's typical block behavior. So there's nothing new in this regard, as far as I know.

And yes, if you're extremely close to a gunner then a blocked shot may randomly hit them, during a swingblock or a regular block.

The word "deflect" is usually reserved for referring to the ability called Deflect: Redirecting a shot towards where you're aiming. You were talking about blocking shots, not deflecting them.
 

ez.HTD

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Tested the beta a week ago with a few people. All i can say is knockback is WAY TOO strong. I was able to 4v1 as a sbd against 4 decent jedis. Won every single time. All you have to do is just manage to shoot the jedi one time and he gets pushed like 5m away and then he is done. And add no DR to that. Yeah... Ridicilous.
 
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Blaster fire reflecting off the saber and going somewhere is what happens every time a shot is blocked by a saber. So.. that's just typical swingblock behavior because that's typical block behavior. So there's nothing new in this regard, as far as I know.

And yes, if you're extremely close to a gunner then a blocked shot may randomly hit them, during a swingblock or a regular block.

The word "deflect" is usually reserved for referring to the ability called Deflect: Redirecting a shot towards where you're aiming. You were talking about blocking shots, not deflecting them.
youre right, I dont know why I never noticed it in open in the current build. it seemed like every time I swung block I still got hit

anyway I just did some numbers testing with a friend at a range of about a minor force jump-forward using uncharged p3
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yellow style, d3, saberd3

beta:
assume all shots consecutive (no misses)

stationary rmb block: 13 shots until fp drained
moving no block: 8 shots until fp drained

open:

stationary rmb block: 12 shots drained approximately one-quarter fp, didnt bother anymore
moving no block: still approximately 8 shots until FP drained. I assume the difference between 1.2x and 0.95x drains is made up by removal of the fp debuff
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my friend who mains BH was worried that poison darts would be too weak now that fp still regens even if youre hit, but he primarily used it to break the turtle rmb-block in current build. that aspect of poison is no longer necessary it would seem as rmb block is very weak in comparison.
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I did test a bit with jump-swing-blocking and think it may cost more to swing-block shots in the air than on the ground. I didn't explore this very much, I just did a minor force jump and saw it drained 5 bars. A single swing-block cost me 3 bars on the ground. a force jump + swing-block required 10 bars to recharge. someone else can look into that or debunk if you know otherwise
 

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moving no block: still approximately 8 shots until FP drained. I assume the difference between 1.2x and 0.95x drains is made up by removal of the fp debuff
afaik the fp debuff in the Current (Release) build only applies while blocking (RMB), so "passive" (running) block ought to be noticeably stronger in the beta build, in return for "full" block being weaker. So I'm a little surprised that it turned out to be "approximately 8 shots" either way.

But maybe the test methodology could be improved. A better test would be to have the jedi just run-in-place at you at melee range, and shoot him once, and note how low the FP drops to in that one shot.

I don't know either way how exactly jump drains work :D

I... believe that swingblock drains with Defense 2 are "runblock" drains, and swingblock drains with Defense 3 are "full block" drains, and I know if you jump without blocking you don't block at all, while if you jump and block I think it's a runblock. It would be interesting if jump-swingblock with DF2 had extra high drains instead of just run drains, but idk either way.

Something to note though is that being in the air as Jedi pauses your FP regen, so regardless of anything you're going to end up with less FP in the jumping situation.
 
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afaik the fp debuff in the Current (Release) build only applies while blocking (RMB), so "passive" (running) block ought to be noticeably stronger in the beta build, in return for "full" block being weaker. So I'm a little surprised that it turned out to be "approximately 8 shots" either way.

But maybe the test methodology could be improved. A better test would be to have the jedi just run-in-place at you at melee range, and shoot him once, and note how low the FP drops to in that one shot.
regarding the first part, we only ran tests twice so maybe theres some variables unaccounted for, its always good to see if others get similar results. distance could have been a little different, I could have moved closer on the beta build a few times (I was moving forward/back) which would result in higher fp drain, who knows.

for the second part, it would add to the greater body of knowledge if you did that in addition to a multiple-shot test because it would tell you if there is something unaccounted for regarding fp regen in the two builds ie. if the ratio isnt the same between 1-shot-drain and full-drain across builds. that would tell you there is a fp regen difference.
 
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