Clone Rework Poll

[{Δ} Achilles]

I feel as though Clone is too gimmicky, and currently has nothing to do with the actual movie/series Clones in playstyle/usefulness. This rework I believe would make Clone a versatile class that is not stronger than the 2 live counterparts ET/Com, but simply more adaptable. The ability to be a mobile assault class, a mid ranged support, or a long ranged engagement class would be rather interesting, I think, and make Clone infinitely more enjoyable.


- - - Clone - - -

- Weapons
* * Pistol
Description: Same as current.

* * DC-15s
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 6-7-8
Description: Reskin of E-11

* * DC-15a
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 8-18-24
Description: The long clone rifle, for accurate long-ranged engagements. Slow fire rate, high damage, high accuracy.
Stats:
- Level 1
Damage: 30
Accuracy: Only when standing still, crouched, or walking
- Level 2
Damage: 33
Accuracy: Always accurate
Adds Scope
- Level 3
Primary Damage: 35
Secondary: Charge shot, starting at 30, reaching maximum 100
Accuracy: Always accurate, charge shot only accurate while walking


* * Minigun
Levels: 1, 2
Cost: 20-30
Description: The current minigun, with some tweaks
Stats:
- Level 1
Primary Damage: 20
Accuracy: Always inaccurate, more inaccurate the longer it fires.
Rate of Fire: Current CR2
- Level 2
Primary Damage: 20
Accuracy: Always inaccurate, more inaccurate the longer it fires.
Rate of Fire: CR3
_________
- Abilities

* * Sprint
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-6-12
Description: Allows the Clone to sprint *forward* only until his stamina runs out, while sprinting the clone fires inaccurately.
Stats:
- Level 1
The Clone can sprint for short distances at a time
- Level 2
The Clone can sprint for long distances at a time
- Level 3
The Clone can sprint forever, and can use crouch to cancel out of sprint with a roll in any direction.

* * Bash
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-8-14
Description: Allows the Clone to bash a target with his rifle-stock, extremely short range.
Stats:
- Level 1
Damage: 6
Cooldown: 5 Seconds
Staggers the target for 0.5 seconds
- Level 2
Damage: 14
Cooldown: 5 Seconds
Staggers the target for 0.7 seconds
- Level 3
Damage: 20
Cooldown: 4 Seconds
Staggers the target for 1 second

* * Reinforcements
Description: Same as current

_________
- Items

* * Pulse Grenades
Levels: 1, 2
Cost: 6-6
Description: Grants the Clone up to 2 Pulse Grenades

* * Armor
Description: Same as current

* * Ammo
Description: Same as current

 

[DaloLorn]

Assuming you play sith and you get sticky nade on you, there are at least two options / strategies open for you:
1) Run away, jump so the pulse nade explodes when you are midair. Use fast getup - you will be back on your feet before you land on ground.
2) Charge at the enemy. I find this the most viable action. If you get sticky pulse nade on you, people generally assume you will run away. If you do the opposite and get to them, when it explodes, they loose all ammo, armor and get knocked down (as do you, but you have the quickest getup). And even if you die later, you still helped your own team a lot by taking all shield and part of ammo clip from enemy team.

Also, here I assume you get sticky naded at close distance. If you do get sticky at long distance, then you should just learn to play.

I'm pretty sure he was saying 'this is good, you can use this instead of blobs', not complaining about it. (Also, to my knowledge, pulse grenades don't remove armor, they only briefly shut down a droideka's shields and an SBD's special defenses - as for ammo, they only lose the current weapon's clip, so if you switch to melee or a less valuable weapon in time...)

Why shoudn't that be a good thing? What I see as a "not a good thing" is siths who are static in their movement, their defenses up, and think they have no problem in the world. If you see clone on the enemy team, then don't stand in one place, don't run in a straight line, don't make it easy for the enemy to hit you. Simple as that.
Except for avoidable blob, what is there for rebel team that can bypass Sith's defense? And I think that Sith is the only problem here. After all, any decent gunner should be in cover and both SBD and droidekas are immune to blob knockdowns.
Also, you should've seen Hex pushing blobs at me. It was really frustrating, but as he shows, it can be done with a bit of practice.

If I see a clone on the enemy team, I'll make a run for it. Between bouncy pistols and blobs, they have enough long-range anti-Sithness that the only solutions are a strong and effective counterattack or an ambush. (Similarly, bouncing pistol shots can uproot any gunner who happens to be waiting in cover for anything.)

To your point #1 - just as I wrote above, if you get blob'd on long distance, then you just need to learn to play. Blob travels for some time at long distance after all.

Typical 'long distance' use case is currently DotF main or side corridors because of how often that map gets played. The time involved is somewhere between 0.5 and 1.0 seconds as far as I can tell, which certainly supports takuta's claim that Hexodious is a god.

AFAIK poison dart deals 3 damage per second / 1 damage per second if meditating for 10 seconds. So it's actually 10-30 hp that bypasses shield completely and prevents FP regen (IIRC, dunno if the "no fp regen" part got changed in any recent patch).

10-20 HP, plus 1 HP when the dart hits you. You'd need 5 darts to kill a Jedi on poison alone - 8-10 darts if they're far enough and defended enough that they can meditate most of it off.

Also why should blob cause 60+ damage? Again, it's only if you act in a way that you can get blob'd multiple times in a row that enemy gunners pick up on it and see you as an easy to kill prey. Or if you think you can take on a group of enemies alone. Again, it all goes back to bad tactics.

The first blob that catches me will be followed up on by A: any semi-competent allies the clone might have in the area (including snipers located on the opposite end of the corridor), or B: the clone himself. Even a quick getup leaves a window of opportunity longer than the getup's own animation, and if you happen to be moving when it hits there's a good chance you'll use a non-quick getup simply because you won't have time to react.

For point #2 - most of these can be easily countered. The only real problem I would see is for CR3 due to its high RoF, but then again this is not a "blob are OP" type of problem and can be avoided with appropriate force powers.

They are counters to deflect. Whether they are themselves counterable is another matter - flinch, for example, is countered by "don't attack until they're lying on the floor" or "use a mixture of luck and skill to avoid getting flinched", but forcing the enemy to go on the offensive is a much better counter for a D3 saberist than eating your own bullets.

Actually blob is a fun and exciting and mainly it is unique ability. I don't understand how you expect anyone to agree with you when most of your posts are just attempts to trample that ability by prefacing it with words like stupid, retarded or shitty without actually providing any real argument except "it's too powerful" and "it kills siths easily".

Both as the user and the victim, I find very little fun or excitement in a blob. Grenades, sure - but blobs? You're spot on about the "unique" part, though, seeing as nothing else has it. (It's funny that you attribute those arguments to Achilles, though. Not once has he singled its anti-Sith capabilities out, and he seems to focus mostly on the fact that "hit or no hit" is almost exclusively in the hands of the clone.)

It's rather interesting to see that when someone else proposes a change to the class so it's not overly reliant on blobs that you shot that idea down with CR2/CR3 is all firepower clones need, yet in your original post you propose different (or should I say exactly the same) weapon?
If anything, I like Hex's and Crusader's idea. It doesn't change the core of the class, but it gives you more ways to play it.

I believe he shot the idea down because it was above and beyond any buffs that he might have in mind. (And let's not lose sight of the fact that the DC-15S revamp is a definite buff in long-range combat.)

 

[Rajive]

In ten years I have played clone more than any other class. I also have played sith against clone a lot recently. And my answer to sith complaining against blob is simple. Stop going forward, and start moving. Blob need skills to hit his target, and you cant spam it. If you face a clone, just move around, do wall jump, try to move unpredictably and you will avoid 90% of incoming blob, then you have time to attack. When I'm playing clone, facing sith most of the time the sith will either going forward, either going from my right to my left in order to slash me. It's so rare to see a sith moving around, waiting for me to waste my blob, or just doing zigzag. You don't kill clone the same way you kill ET, and that, many sith don't get it.

Blob is a key feature to clone, that's true, and it's also true it's not in SW universe, but Mb2 is not 100% SW realistic, Appo already pointed it out, you don't have ARC jumping around in SW, yet it's a key feature of ARC in mb2.

Blob is useful when you face sith camping in main, waiting for you to come, deflecting every shot in your face. You blob him and that's it you can advance once again. It's tough ? So is camping.
If you're get skill you can try to blob flying mand, but let's be honest, how many people on mb2 can do this more than once in awhile ?
Then blob vs gunner, you hit him, the gunner's certainly dead, you miss you'll lost a lot of hp if you're in a middle of a fight.

I agree however that clone have too many conc blobs and that ion is a bit too much effective. There's a lot of idea on how to change them here so I wont repeat them.

 

[Crusader]

"Clone has more tank, better mobility, better utility, and better weapons than any class on Imps, 'cept BH."

Clone has two lives and can have a health/armour pool of 80/80. If we presume a two life clone with CR2, then it has a total health pool of 160/160.

Classes on Imperials that are more robust or equal:
Deka (Armour types, no 'head' hitbox)
SBD (Health/armour pool)

These classes are absolutely more robust than the clone. For the premise of a 160/160 clone, I have omitted Mandalorian and BH. They are non-comparable.

Classes on Imperials that have more mobility or equal:
Sith (Force jump, quick get-up, wallhang)
Deka (Roll)
Mandalorian (Jetpack)
BH* (Movement speed is by default greater than clone without sprint, and equal with)

* = BH is included, as this your reference.

Both Sith and Mandalorian have vertical mobility. Deka has the fastest movement speed in the game when rolling, allowing it to re-position faster than an enemy can flank. BH has by default a greater movement speed that clone, unless it is sprinting.

Classes on Imperials that have better utility** or equal:
Commander (Incendiary/area denial, rally)
Sith (Push, lightning, grip, presence, spot boosting, sense, anti-MT)
Mandalorian (Spot boosting, flamethrower presence)
Deka (Spot boosting, anti-MT, presence, discharge)
SBD (Anti-MT, presence)
BH* (Poison, tracking, presence)
Any class with a fragmentation grenade.

** = Utility is poorly defined. Here it is taken as some element of the class that provides a strategic advantage and/or is able to counter the unique abilities of the enemy team. The advantage doesn't necessarily need to physically manifest in the game, and can be a psychological factor: 'presence'.

Rally allows for a group of soldiers and a commander to persist in an area for a long time, not to mention the buff it provides soldiers on re-spawning. Sith has a large support role attached to it. Pushing grenades/enemies and sensing positions can be seen as the core supportive role of a Sith. Using lightning to disable enemies, or grip on a low Force Jedi to turn it into a pinata and Force jump to boost other classes to otherwise inaccessible areas are extras. Similarly, the Mandalorian and Deka can achieve this feat. The Mandalorian can prevent Jedi from progressing through choke-points with the flame thrower. Both the droid classes and Sith have the ability to stop MT Jedi free roaming. The Deka discharge serves as a clutch secondary push (combined with a Sith it can win a push war versus a Jedi with class limit 1). The presence of Deka/SBD is also sometimes an advantage enough to force Rebels to use alternative routes as certain entrenchments with a Deka/SBD are too risky to advance in. The BH shares this ability with the disruptor, allowing it to deter Rebels from certain areas. The tracking dart allows speaks for itself. Poison darts aren't as much of a death sentence any more, but they certainly lock down Jedi and stop them advancing. Sec-nading with any class is a free knockdown/kill.

Classes on Imperials that have better weapons or equal:
Mandalorian (EE3 - a gun that people have strong opinions about, @Gumba will express his disdain for EE3 level 3; Westars - permanent accuracy, high damage, fast reload, seemingly high force drain, charge mode).
SBD (I do not know the stats, but in combination with the classes' robustness, it is allowed to walk and aim precisely. The damage is high).
Deka (Highest damage, highest fire rate, unlimited ammo. Or at least it feels as though this is the case).
BH* (Disruptor, P3)
Commander (T21 is a pretty a strong gun, and I know there is disagreements whether E11 is preferable to it, however the spread of the gun from experience seems to naturally line up with big threat classes like wookiee. It also seems to kill clone/ARC quickly).

A 'best' gun is really subjective as to what the player preforms best with, and where you are situated in game. We cannot compare the base stats and sufficiently conclude a clear winner (unless their stats are absurd). This is an argument that could go on for pages as it really does depend on a lot of factors. What I will say is, and will probably be going out on a limb on this, that if you ask a lot of the good gunners from Europe/America, they will tell you the 'best' weapon is E11. I use that term very loosely, and this may just be my own conclusion, especially from watching Europe-side.

 

[Gumba]

Mandalorian (EE3 - a gun that people have strong opinions about, @Gumba will express his disdain for EE3

Can confirm that ee3 is the most broken weapon in the game.

 

[Cotton]

Disclaimer: Don't feel offended, I just have some legit concerns about who balances this game

So, I do not know whoever you are Mr. Achilles. I assume you are playing on american servers. Well, I would be quite interested in your competitive experience in this game. Probably there is little to none. Most likely not even your fault, but looking at the fact that the american MB2 competitive scene has always been underdeveloped and way behind the european competitive scene (Looking back to Metaguardians tournament), there is a high probability that your experience and your game knowledge is pretty small.
Why is this important? Well, people who tweak classes / balance the game in general should be the ones who played this game thousands of hours competitively and in public. MB2 has quite a high skill cap due to its complex and unique mechanics (i.e I doubt there is one new guy who can join a public server for the frist time and maintain a positive score) , and that's exactly what makes MB2 good for most of the people. It is the reason why there have been multiple tournaments, thousands of clanmatches and weekly pugs in the first place.

While I agree, clone is a strong class, you are targeting exactly the wrong "problem" areas probably because you do not have enough experience and just feel pub stomped from time to time on public servers. Removing a counter mechanic to other classes from the game without much thought is just ridiculous. Yes, I am talking about blob. Blob is a necessary game mechanic, be it in public games or be it in competitive games. Breaching the defense with pure firepower does not work in a game like MB2, especially if you consider that imps (mostly the camping class) naturally have more firepower at any given time. You need utility, and the clone blob tries to exactly fix this lack of utility.
A possible nerf could be reducing the charges of blob in order to make people spend their blobs more thoughtful, however, good players will continue to use these blobs efficiently while worse players will spend their blobs without causing any damage. It will most likely only nerf the worse players.

Saying stuff like "there is no blob in movies" only shows a certain amount of incompetence. This is a game, not a movie. Gameplay is ALWAYS more important than movie authenticity. Especially in a multiplayer only game. You, as the guy balancing classes, should very well know this.

Next you say the clone rifle is too strong. I completely disagree here. There is a reason why the best players play soldier with e11 on public servers and why they choose e11 whenever possible. E11 is simply the most consistent weapon on every distance in this game. Clone Rifle 2 however, is pretty inconsistent and gets even more inconsistent the bigger the distance. In order to play Clone Rifle 3 you have to sacrifice one life which is most likely simply not worth it for the little addition of fire rate.

The only real issue I see with clone is them being a tiny bit too tanky considering they can survive full charge ruptor snipes from time to time. All I really would change there is reducing their armor by 20-30.

 

[Fang]

Aye I agree with the statement, while imperials have the firepower, rebels deserve to have those two tank styled classes. Clones have to maintain movement and sacrifice accuracy as well. Standing still is a death sentence. Bare in mind without stamina its free kils for snipers

 

[chicknman]

I want to change Jedi/Sith too, but not before changing Clone. My list of things that need to change:

1: Clone
2: SBD
3: Jedi/Sith
4: Hero (And Proj)

But most importantly, I'd like to see gimmicks like secondary nade, blobs, and point-blank rockets removed. Not because I can't deal with them, but because they ruin gameplay.

It's posts like these that have me concerned for the future of MB2. Literally everything you listed can be used as a viable counter to the saber class. You state that you can't handle them, but I believe it's quite the contrary. You've become known for your snarky remarks after getting killed by pretty much anything. You try to find any excuse as to why you died, and it usually begins with "such and such class is op and too gimmicky". It's concerning to me that someone who may have some influence in the development of this mod has such a huge bias towards one class.

This isn't even the biggest issue. You want to remove some of the core gameplay aspects of MB2 that make it the fun game we all love to play. From what I've been reading in this post, it sounds more and more like you want to "CoDify" the gunner classes to the point of unoriginality. I agree that some classes definitely need work (SBD, Mando, Deka), but your bias against mechanics that hinder your primary class are undeniable and unacceptable for someone with even a minuscule amount influence.

I don't know how much influence you have on tempest, but I really hope the other devs (I'm looking at you hex) speak out about the balance issues that may arise for gunners with the proposals this undoubtedly biased guy has.

Cotton is right about the NA scene. You got people like Achilles that haven't competed in a single scrim (while still developing huge egos) and feel they have the knowledge and experience to make the necessary balance changes.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

It's posts like these that have me concerned for the future of MB2. Literally everything you listed can be used as a viable counter to the saber class. You state that you can't handle them, but I believe it's quite the contrary. You've become known for your snarky remarks after getting killed by pretty much anything. You try to find any excuse as to why you died, and it usually begins with "such and such class is op and too gimmicky". It's concerning to me that someone who may have some influence in the development of this mod has such a huge bias towards one class.

This isn't even the biggest issue. You want to remove some of the core gameplay aspects of MB2 that make it the fun game we all love to play. From what I've been reading in this post, it sounds more and more like you want to "CoDify" the gunner classes to the point of unoriginality. I agree that some classes definitely need work (SBD, Mando, Deka), but your bias against mechanics that hinder your primary class are undeniable and unacceptable for someone with even a minuscule amount influence.

I don't know how much influence you have on tempest, but I really hope the other devs (I'm looking at you hex) speak out about the balance issues that may arise for gunners with the proposals this undoubtedly biased guy has.

Cotton is right about the NA scene. You got people like Achilles that haven't competed in a single scrim (while still developing huge egos) and feel they have the knowledge and experience to make the necessary balance changes.

Really, Projectile rifle is a viable counter to the saber class? Secondary nade? You may find this interesting to note, but a decent SBD is literally impossible to kill as a Jedi, do you think this is balanced? You clearly don't know me, because Jedi/Sith aren't even remotely my main class in open mode, I will only use a saber if the enemy team has a huge amount of sabers.

Oh forgive me, I want to remove blobs, oh no, gasp, what horror. We all know that all of MB2 is based around the concept of Blobs, for they are fun to play, and surely not a gimmick. A core gameplay aspect of an ability with no counter-play. Oh how horrid, I'm so biased against clone, because this incompetent baboon that is aliasing believes I do nothing but spend all my time sabering people.

And Achilles has never competed in a scrim, how could I possibly know anything related to balance, how could I see an affect that a class has on every normal game on the fucking planet... what a filthy pleb. Who balances a game based on the 99% of matches, who balances a game around the potential possibility of class spam.

Your stupidity is astounding. I do not know who you are in-game, nor do I care, but I can only imagine you're one of Paradine's parasites that stacks entire servers spamming clone and depopulates them for troll-purposes. Blob *isn't* a core mechanic, because you can assault any location on any map in the entire game without them. If one side camping behind walls is insurmountable without a specific cancerous gimmick, then perhaps THAT side has some broken nonsense? I'm not saying that killing camping SBDs is easy, but that is partly because SBD is just as broken. If you think blob is a core mechanic of clone, or that CR is a bad weapon, then you're literally retarded. Ever see a soldier/commander/mando/BH picking up a dropped CR? Pretty scary, right? That is because it is typically better than what they have.

One side being overpowered or gimmicky doesn't justify making the other side overpowered or gimmicky. Just because SBD is broken and Sith are annoying doesn't mean that blobs are a fucking core mechanic. That is like saying nudge is a core mechanic because someone can PB you. Utterly stupid.

Honestly I expected as such, only I expected it sooner. A bunch of brand new forum accounts all with the same goals. It is the army of trolls that abuse Clone constantly in open mode to depopulate servers with team-stacks as aliases.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Clone has two lives and can have a health/armour pool of 80/80. If we presume a two life clone with CR2, then it has a total health pool of 160/160.

Classes on Imperials that are more robust or equal:
Deka (Armour types, no 'head' hitbox)
SBD (Health/armour pool)

These classes are absolutely more robust than the clone. For the premise of a 160/160 clone, I have omitted Mandalorian and BH. They are non-comparable.

Classes on Imperials that have more mobility or equal:
Sith (Force jump, quick get-up, wallhang)
Deka (Roll)
Mandalorian (Jetpack)
BH* (Movement speed is by default greater than clone without sprint, and equal with)

* = BH is included, as this your reference.

Both Sith and Mandalorian have vertical mobility. Deka has the fastest movement speed in the game when rolling, allowing it to re-position faster than an enemy can flank. BH has by default a greater movement speed that clone, unless it is sprinting.

Classes on Imperials that have better utility** or equal:
Commander (Incendiary/area denial, rally)
Sith (Push, lightning, grip, presence, spot boosting, sense, anti-MT)
Mandalorian (Spot boosting, flamethrower presence)
Deka (Spot boosting, anti-MT, presence, discharge)
SBD (Anti-MT, presence)
BH* (Poison, tracking, presence)
Any class with a fragmentation grenade.

** = Utility is poorly defined. Here it is taken as some element of the class that provides a strategic advantage and/or is able to counter the unique abilities of the enemy team. The advantage doesn't necessarily need to physically manifest in the game, and can be a psychological factor: 'presence'.

Rally allows for a group of soldiers and a commander to persist in an area for a long time, not to mention the buff it provides soldiers on re-spawning. Sith has a large support role attached to it. Pushing grenades/enemies and sensing positions can be seen as the core supportive role of a Sith. Using lightning to disable enemies, or grip on a low Force Jedi to turn it into a pinata and Force jump to boost other classes to otherwise inaccessible areas are extras. Similarly, the Mandalorian and Deka can achieve this feat. The Mandalorian can prevent Jedi from progressing through choke-points with the flame thrower. Both the droid classes and Sith have the ability to stop MT Jedi free roaming. The Deka discharge serves as a clutch secondary push (combined with a Sith it can win a push war versus a Jedi with class limit 1). The presence of Deka/SBD is also sometimes an advantage enough to force Rebels to use alternative routes as certain entrenchments with a Deka/SBD are too risky to advance in. The BH shares this ability with the disruptor, allowing it to deter Rebels from certain areas. The tracking dart allows speaks for itself. Poison darts aren't as much of a death sentence any more, but they certainly lock down Jedi and stop them advancing. Sec-nading with any class is a free knockdown/kill.

Classes on Imperials that have better weapons or equal:
Mandalorian (EE3 - a gun that people have strong opinions about, @Gumba will express his disdain for EE3 level 3; Westars - permanent accuracy, high damage, fast reload, seemingly high force drain, charge mode).
SBD (I do not know the stats, but in combination with the classes' robustness, it is allowed to walk and aim precisely. The damage is high).
Deka (Highest damage, highest fire rate, unlimited ammo. Or at least it feels as though this is the case).
BH* (Disruptor, P3)
Commander (T21 is a pretty a strong gun, and I know there is disagreements whether E11 is preferable to it, however the spread of the gun from experience seems to naturally line up with big threat classes like wookiee. It also seems to kill clone/ARC quickly).

A 'best' gun is really subjective as to what the player preforms best with, and where you are situated in game. We cannot compare the base stats and sufficiently conclude a clear winner (unless their stats are absurd). This is an argument that could go on for pages as it really does depend on a lot of factors. What I will say is, and will probably be going out on a limb on this, that if you ask a lot of the good gunners from Europe/America, they will tell you the 'best' weapon is E11. I use that term very loosely, and this may just be my own conclusion, especially from watching Europe-side.

As a whole package, Clone is vastly superior to basically every class on Imp team, is what I'm referring to. They made not have as much armor as SBD, but they can have just as much firepower, substantially more mobility, and superior utility, for instance. You seem to mention MT a lot, but that isn't comparable to Clone, since it doesn't have to deal with anything remotely of that quality. Regarding anti-Saber, Clone is easily the strongest class in the game, for they are the only gunner-class that can fight a saber aggressively using blobs. Almost all other classes in the game either lack the capability of chasing down a Jedi/Sith, or require the Jedi/Sith to be actively attempting to kill them. I mean really, what class on Imps can knock down a Jedi from ANY distance with absolutely no counter play? What class on Imps can disable a group of gunners from fighting back for 5 seconds?

Rally is a strong ability, and I dislike how easy it is to acquire on Commander, it is honestly the only strong ability that Commander has in comparison with clone. T-21 is a very weighted weapon, with all of the weight of its capabilities on the alt-fire side, which imo is kind of bad design. I do agree that T-21, and E-11 are superior weapons to CR2, HOWEVER, you are forgetting the factor of stamina and the clone's armor/hp. It is the sprint function and high tank of the Clone that makes it so lethal, combined with how fast the weapons it has fire, meaning you will almost always win strafe-matches with a CR. Not to mention how well it can suppress corners, or just disable entire groups of enemy gunners with a single ion. It simply makes Clone far too powerful compared to other gunner classes, in almost every open match I see where clone starts to get spammed, the only real counter for it is Proj/EE3 spam, but even that will often end up failing if the clones are competent enough to use tactics, or the map doesn't allow for sniping.

Deka is not comparable to Clone, for it honestly doesn't have all that much mobility beyond the fall-immunity and roll speed. It's extremely slow, and cannot dodge projectiles in a firefight, so more than 1 clone is guaranteed death for a deka. If the Clone can get within close range, and abuse sprint, then the deka is dead due to its incredibly slow turn-rate.

I absolutely love E-11, and I do agree it is one of the best weapons in the game, which is why I would like to see Clone with a similar weapon to E-11, either a clone, or a very close-functioning version. Which is one of my suggestions. I don't want to see Clone with blobs or CR as a gimmick, I think it should see more versatility. No matter what a few morons might say, a class shouldn't be balanced exclusively around one simple stupid function. Blobs aren't a core mechanic and shouldn't be treated as such.

 

[Cotton]

Didn't take much to trigger you. Well, it only shows how mature you are and that you are definitely the wrong guy to make / suggest any kind of changes for this game.
Instead of using a single argument, you insult everyone who thinks that your suggestions aren't good. You are also proving that you get stomped by clones on public servers and that's where your motivation comes from.

If I would trust anyone in MB2 team with balance changes it would probably be Hexodious due to his experience in all facettes of this game. Some American guy called Achilles, thinking blob is a bad mechanic while it achieves exactly what is needed, is definitely the wrong guy.

Blob has got counter-play. It is either called positioning/movement and on long distance pushing is even possible. If you don't believe this exists, take a look at the best european jedi players in this game. (Hexodious, Thera, Shocker, Gog, heck even Mads..) All of them would succeed in making your life to hell as a clone.

Also, noone said that CR is a bad weapon. I simply made a point that CR is not broken and the universally best auto weapon right now is probably E11 due to its consistency.
On public servers i mostly play sniper for years now. I never perceive clone as an unbalanced threat besides the little too high tankiness. For competitive matches clone is even a necessary class for the most part.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Didn't take much to trigger you. Well, it only shows how mature you are and that you are definitely the wrong guy to make / suggest any kind of changes for this game.
Instead of using a single argument, you insult everyone who thinks that your suggestions aren't good. You are also proving that you get stomped by clones on public servers and that's where your motivation comes from.

If I would trust anyone in MB2 team with balance changes it would probably be Hexodious due to his experience in all facettes of this game. Some American guy called Achilles, thinking blob is a bad mechanic while it achieves exactly what is needed, is definitely the wrong guy.

Blob has got counter-play. It is either called positioning/movement and on long distance pushing is even possible. If you don't believe this exists, take a look at the best european jedi players in this game. (Hexodious, Thera, Shocker, Gog, heck even Mads..) All of them would succeed in making your life to hell as a clone.

Also, noone said that CR is a bad weapon. I simply made a point that CR is not broken and the universally best auto weapon right now is probably E11 due to its consistency.
On public servers i mostly play sniper for years now. I never perceive clone as an unbalanced threat besides the little too high tankiness. For competitive matches clone is even a necessary class for the most part.

Maybe because Sniper is literally the only counter to clone spam? Wow, someone who mains a counter to a class doesn't perceive it as broken! Magnificent. If you think Blob can be pushed at any distance, by the way, then you have no idea what you're talking about. I will take any person in the world in-game and see if they can push a blob on reaction, they will fail.

You're a gunner that spends all of his time practicing a gimmick which is surprisingly a counter to another gimmick. I play every class, including Clone. Infact the past few weeks, I've been using nothing but Clone/Commander, and trolling in-game with them. Ions, are broken. Conc blob, is a gimmick. Clone Sprint/Tank/Firepower are way too high for what it accomplishes.

But you know what? I'd be fine with CR, sprint, and how durable clone is, if it didn't have blobs. Because there is nothing that kills a server more, than watching a few decent Clones tear through a hallway of gunners with staggered Ion spam.

 

[Cotton]

Take Clone, I take soldier/et vs. you. Even if you use your "broken" blobs I will beat you in this duel. I did not say you can push on any distance, I said you can push blobs on long distance. All of the jedi/sith players I mentioned are probably able to do so.
If you play jedi/sith however and try to jump to your target instead of running, you shouldn't be surprised if you get blobbed.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Take Clone, I take soldier/et vs. you. Even if you use your "broken" blobs I will beat you in this duel. I did not say you can push on any distance, I said you can push blobs on long distance. All of the jedi/sith players I mentioned are probably able to do so.
If you play jedi/sith however and try to jump to your target instead of running, you shouldn't be surprised if you get blobbed.

You will never find a Jedi/Sith that can push a blob at any distance, even long distance, on reaction. It is physically impossible. Unless the 'duel' is you hiding behind corners with secondary-nade, then you're not going to win against a Clone. A good clone will also blob a running Sith quite consistently. Not to mention, by the by, that a good Clone won't even try to blob you at a distance. You may not have stepped outside of the EU much, but here in NA, Clone is the most overused class in the game, and plenty of trolls (including myself a couple times) will stack rebels with clones, and basically depopulate servers.

You know what I think? I think you don't know what you're talking about, Mr. Cotton.

 

[Cotton]

Uhm it is possible to push a long range blob. I told you, you can play vs. me - you as clone, me as sold/et; won't even frag nade you.

I am playing mb2 for 10 years now. I attended multiple tournaments, used to play 2-3 matches on a daily basis with over 500 matches/scrims in total, I played around 7-8 hours daily in my primetime. I constantly have top scores and played with/against the best players of this game. I would say I do know what I am talking about.
I have never seen a pro player complain that clone blobs are broken. Now, stop being ridiculous and leave such decisions to more sophisticated people.

 

[TadekRaeod]

Maybe because Sniper is literally the only counter to clone spam? Wow, someone who mains a counter to a class doesn't perceive it as broken! Magnificent. If you think Blob can be pushed at any distance, by the way, then you have no idea what you're talking about. I will take any person in the world in-game and see if they can push a blob on reaction, they will fail.

You're a gunner that spends all of his time practicing a gimmick which is surprisingly a counter to another gimmick. I play every class, including Clone. Infact the past few weeks, I've been using nothing but Clone/Commander, and trolling in-game with them. Ions, are broken. Conc blob, is a gimmick. Clone Sprint/Tank/Firepower are way too high for what it accomplishes.

But you know what? I'd be fine with CR, sprint, and how durable clone is, if it didn't have blobs. Because there is nothing that kills a server more, than watching a few decent Clones tear through a hallway of gunners with staggered Ion spam.

So you say that Soldier spam can't win against Clone spam,or SBD and Deka spam can't win against Clone spam.
I personally think spam vs spam is determined by the players,not the actual classes and builds.
Don't see how Ions are broken if you have a limited number of them,neither conc blobs.
And by "Hallway",i assume that you are talking about DOTF,since it's one of the few big hallways where "Clones can tear through a hallway of gunners with staggered Ion spam"? How about in tight spaces?in tight spaces,if clones are not careful,they could get electrified by their own Ion blobs,and at that point sucks to be them and the enemies :/
Don't see why Clones should be reworked,or blobs should be removed.IMO clones should stay at it is now.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Uhm it is possible to push a long range blob. I told you, you can play vs. me - you as clone, me as sold/et; won't even frag nade you.

I am playing mb2 for 10 years now. I attended multiple tournaments, used to play 2-3 matches on a daily basis with over 500 matches/scrims in total, I played around 7-8 hours daily in my primetime. I constantly have top scores and played with/against the best players of this game. I would say I do know what I am talking about.
I have never seen a pro player complain that clone blobs are broken. Now, stop being ridiculous and leave such decisions to more sophisticated people.

Yet you only have 4 posts. I have seen plenty of pro players complain about blobs, however a lot of 'pro' players also use them quite religiously. Infact several of the top gunners in NA use nothing but Clone/BH. I've seen loads of top tier saberists complain about blobs, I've seen loads of top tier gunners also complain about blobs.

By the by, I can assure you, that you cannot push a blob. We can always test this, I'll stand end to end with you on DotF main hallway, and see if you can push a blob on reaction, sound good? I'll even go to EU so you have an advantage.

 

[Sammy]

Yet you only have 4 posts. I have seen plenty of pro players complain about blobs, however a lot of 'pro' players also use them quite religiously. Infact several of the top gunners in NA use nothing but Clone/BH. I've seen loads of top tier saberists complain about blobs, I've seen loads of top tier gunners also complain about blobs.

By the by, I can assure you, that you cannot push a blob. We can always test this, I'll stand end to end with you on DotF main hallway, and see if you can push a blob on reaction, sound good? I'll even go to EU so you have an advantage.

Most likely he had more posts on the old website. Possibly he has found no need to post here at the moment.

 

[TadekRaeod]

Yet you only have 4 posts. I have seen plenty of pro players complain about blobs, however a lot of 'pro' players also use them quite religiously. Infact several of the top gunners in NA use nothing but Clone/BH. I've seen loads of top tier saberists complain about blobs, I've seen loads of top tier gunners also complain about blobs.

By the by, I can assure you, that you cannot push a blob. We can always test this, I'll stand end to end with you on DotF main hallway, and see if you can push a blob on reaction, sound good? I'll even go to EU so you have an advantage.

please say names when you say "LOADS of people".
also,yes,blobs can be pushed.But you need to see the damn future to push a conc blob at close range xd

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

So you say that Soldier spam can't win against Clone spam,or SBD and Deka spam can't win against Clone spam.
I personally think spam vs spam is determined by the players,not the actual classes and builds.
Don't see how Ions are broken if you have a limited number of them,neither conc blobs.
And by "Hallway",i assume that you are talking about DOTF,since it's one of the few big hallways where "Clones can tear through a hallway of gunners with staggered Ion spam"? How about in tight spaces?in tight spaces,if clones are not careful,they could get electrified by their own Ion blobs,and at that point sucks to be them and the enemies :/
Don't see why Clones should be reworked,or blobs should be removed.IMO clones should stay at it is now.

No, soldier spam can win against clone spam, but it requires a gimmick to beat a gimmick. Without secondary-nade, Solds stand no chance against Clones. If the Clones have a decent support jedi, then the solds still stand no chance even with frags.

Mandos have a limited number of rockets, but they can potentially kill an entire team with them, so I don't see your point. Ions are incredibly strong, they are AoE and grant 5 seconds of disarm.

In tight spaces, the CR2/3 is also extremely strong. The Clone is really only vulnerable at long range, and only against sniper rifles.

I want to see Clone just be a fun class, and have more interesting strategies involved with it. I don't like the gimmicks in MB2, I really don't, most people also dislike the gimmicks. The people arguing against Clone Rework do so with only 3 arguments:

1) Clone has a specific role, blobs are a necessary counter to Sith and grant the utility rebs need to assault defended positions.
Counter argument: Clone's role is defined exclusively by the blobs, which is bad game-design. Blobs are not necessary to assault positions, Imps do not have blobs yet can assault quite fine. If the Imps defensive capabilities are so strong that Rebels need a gimmick simply to break through, then perhaps Imps defensive capabilities should be nerfed so that the gimmick isn't necessary? Pulse Grenades in my suggested re-work would fill the gap left by the removal of blobs just fine, if not slightly better imo, while allowing for counter-play.

2) Clone has always been this way, it is fun and shouldn't be changed.
Counter argument: Form of Argumentum Ad Antiquitatem, simply because you might think it is 'fun', doesn't mean others find it 'fun', nor does it mean it is 'fun' to deal with.

3) Achilles doesn't know what he's talking about, and is just complaining. (Alternative argument "We here in EU have no problems, so you all must suck")
Counter argument: Attacking the person, rather than the argument, is a common practice here in MB2, and I find myself doing it some-what often as well. However, I use all classes, and I try to remain as unbiased as possible. I want Sith to be nerfed, I want Jedi to be nerfed, I want gunner vs saber to take skill on both sides, I want Clone to be a good class that I feel good about using, I want SBD to be good to play with and against. However, I can't see those things happening, if everyone wants a stupid silly gimmick to remain. How can you possibly balance Sith force, when Grip/Lightning are basically mandatory for dealing with Clones? How can you possibly balance Push/Pull when it is so damned necessary to deal with half the gimmicks in this game? How could you nerf/balance SBD, if the enemy team would have such an obscene advantage? In order to proceed to an overall balanced/fixed game, one step needs to be taken at a time. I don't see Sith/Jedi being truly balanced, until gimmicks like Blob are removed. I don't see how any gunner v gunner is to be balanced, when the game is often so weighted in favor of defense, and the only offensive capabilities are based on stupid gimmicks. Can a Clone assault a defended position with CR1 and no blobs? Why not? Not to mention, why can't the game be balanced for all games, why does it have to be balanced solely around highly competitive scrims, that never happen anymore? From my perspective I see that the most efficient way to balance MB2, is to start with the biggest offenders, and work from there: Clone and SBD.

 

[Cotton]

Achilles, every single good player in this game knows me. Even though I've never attended any official froums of this game, even the european mb2 staff knows me and knows my experience is legit.

These "gimmicks" or whatever you call it, are what defines MB2. There are certain mechanics in this game and there are counter-mechanics to it. Adjusting your strategy accordingly is what makes this game fun.
If I just wanted to shoot without anything special I would just play csgo or call of duty. This game is DIFFERENT. It is what it makes unique. Changing these mechanics would destroy MB2 and make it another scifi clone of csgo.