Clone Rework Poll

[{Δ} Achilles]

I feel as though Clone is too gimmicky, and currently has nothing to do with the actual movie/series Clones in playstyle/usefulness. This rework I believe would make Clone a versatile class that is not stronger than the 2 live counterparts ET/Com, but simply more adaptable. The ability to be a mobile assault class, a mid ranged support, or a long ranged engagement class would be rather interesting, I think, and make Clone infinitely more enjoyable.


- - - Clone - - -

- Weapons
* * Pistol
Description: Same as current.

* * DC-15s
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 6-7-8
Description: Reskin of E-11

* * DC-15a
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 8-18-24
Description: The long clone rifle, for accurate long-ranged engagements. Slow fire rate, high damage, high accuracy.
Stats:
- Level 1
Damage: 30
Accuracy: Only when standing still, crouched, or walking
- Level 2
Damage: 33
Accuracy: Always accurate
Adds Scope
- Level 3
Primary Damage: 35
Secondary: Charge shot, starting at 30, reaching maximum 100
Accuracy: Always accurate, charge shot only accurate while walking


* * Minigun
Levels: 1, 2
Cost: 20-30
Description: The current minigun, with some tweaks
Stats:
- Level 1
Primary Damage: 20
Accuracy: Always inaccurate, more inaccurate the longer it fires.
Rate of Fire: Current CR2
- Level 2
Primary Damage: 20
Accuracy: Always inaccurate, more inaccurate the longer it fires.
Rate of Fire: CR3
_________
- Abilities

* * Sprint
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-6-12
Description: Allows the Clone to sprint *forward* only until his stamina runs out, while sprinting the clone fires inaccurately.
Stats:
- Level 1
The Clone can sprint for short distances at a time
- Level 2
The Clone can sprint for long distances at a time
- Level 3
The Clone can sprint forever, and can use crouch to cancel out of sprint with a roll in any direction.

* * Bash
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-8-14
Description: Allows the Clone to bash a target with his rifle-stock, extremely short range.
Stats:
- Level 1
Damage: 6
Cooldown: 5 Seconds
Staggers the target for 0.5 seconds
- Level 2
Damage: 14
Cooldown: 5 Seconds
Staggers the target for 0.7 seconds
- Level 3
Damage: 20
Cooldown: 4 Seconds
Staggers the target for 1 second

* * Reinforcements
Description: Same as current

_________
- Items

* * Pulse Grenades
Levels: 1, 2
Cost: 6-6
Description: Grants the Clone up to 2 Pulse Grenades

* * Armor
Description: Same as current

* * Ammo
Description: Same as current

 

[Lessen]

I voted Rework out of respect for your previous work on the sabering system, but at the same time I don't personally mind where Clone is right now. A 2-life T-21 commander seems more dangerous than a 2-life CR2 or 1-life CR3 clone...

Still, I am really curious to see how your changes would feel, so I vote rework for the hell of it. I basically enjoy playing with new mechanics, for the sake of new mechanics.

 

[Stassin]

Also don't mind where clone is currently at, though it needs less blob/ion charges, but this rework suggestion is good overall, though some points costs need to be significantly reduced. It uniformizes the class a bit which i don't like too much, making it more similar to commander class, and much weaker vs siths... but well.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

@Oddlewad I have also stated that I want to make T-21 weighted more towards primary fire, and not secondary fire, which would balance it a bit further. I also would like to see secondary frag nade (insta-nade) removed, as it is just a gimmick that gives free kills against classes without quick-getup/roll if they step within 20 feet of you.

 

[Noob]

Clones are really the only good sith counter. I agree they are OP when there's a whole team of them, but you could really say that about any class. It's fine. I disagree on the whole clones should have ion nades. They are too powerful to put on a reinforcements class.

Also

* * Bash
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-8-14
Description: Allows the Clone to bash a target with his rifle-stock, extremely short range.

Who's going to animate this?

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Spoilers, a lot of classes are counters to Sith/Jedi if played well, and Lightning is known to be OP.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Clone spam this patch is a natural reaction to sith spam (which is happening again since saberists got buffed). Clones are just well-suited to counter this onslaught of lightsticks. Nerf clones too much, and gunner players will spam wookies instead.

In previous patch, saberists were kinda scared of gunners in general, and that gave gunners a certain freedom when it came to class selection. Now, however, you need to pick classes that are capable or dispatching sith/jedi, otherwise you have a real risk of being overwhelmed by a lightstick horde.

 

[DaloLorn]

I voted Rework out of respect for your previous work on the sabering system, but at the same time I don't personally mind where Clone is right now. A 2-life T-21 commander seems more dangerous than a 2-life CR2 or 1-life CR3 clone...

That is perhaps because the T-21 can deal huge damage in the right hands. I'd actually consider that gun a massive improvement over the A280, outside of scenarios that absolutely require the extra accuracy, like long-range combat.

Clones are really the only good sith counter.

Appo, half-decent Wookiees and my own ARCs would disagree with you.

If it weren't for lightning/grip rendering the target defenseless, I'd be slaughtering a lot more Sith than I currently do, partly because of flinch and partly because half of them try to push me.

I agree they are OP when there's a whole team of them, but you could really say that about any class. It's fine. I disagree on the whole clones should have ion nades. They are too powerful to put on a reinforcements class.

Pulse grenades are barely worse than ion blobs - the ammo loss is avoidable, the stun is non-existent and replaced by a brief knockdown, and come to think of it, you don't get six pulse grenades a life. Come on, one ion blob can knock a gunner out for up to six seconds (don't quote me on that number ), what can pulse grenades do better (or even equally) outside of disabling droid classes and being pushed back at the thrower?!

Clone spam this patch is a natural reaction to sith spam (which is happening again since saberists got buffed). Clones are just well-suited to counter this onslaught of lightsticks. Nerf clones too much, and gunner players will spam wookies instead.

In previous patch, saberists were kinda scared of gunners in general, and that gave gunners a certain freedom when it came to class selection. Now, however, you need to pick classes that are capable or dispatching sith/jedi, otherwise you have a real risk of being overwhelmed by a lightstick horde.

ARC. Well-built Wookiee (either the 'godcaster' build or a fury build, and I'm seeing hybrids as well). A half-decent hero. A decent commander/soldier.

The only reason not to pick any of those is lightning, and that catches anything except Wookiees and Jedi - clones are no exception to that rule.

 

[Noob]

Pulse nades are exclusively for fighting SBD/Deka.

I never said there weren't other counters to Sith, just that clone is the only consistent one.

Also note how almost everyone who voted yes are usually always saberists themselves. They don't see balance as a two way street, imo.

 

[Sammy]

Pulse nades are exclusively for fighting SBD/Deka.

I never said there weren't other counters to Sith, just that clone is the only consistent one.

Also note how almost everyone who voted yes are usually always saberists themselves. They don't see balance as a two way street, imo.

Well, they're also great for soldier spam. Throw into a crowd, they all lose their ammo and are temporarily disabled.

 

[DaloLorn]

Well, they're also great for soldier spam. Throw into a crowd, they all lose their ammo and are temporarily disabled.

Unless they see the grenade coming and switch to melee. All you're going to accomplish is throwing them to the floor for a few seconds.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Pulse nades are exclusively for fighting SBD/Deka.

I never said there weren't other counters to Sith, just that clone is the only consistent one.

Also note how almost everyone who voted yes are usually always saberists themselves. They don't see balance as a two way street, imo.

Pulse nades are strong against every non-Jedi/Sith class, they delete armor, ammo, and have strong CC.

Clone is not the only consistent one. Clone is just the most broken one/easiest one.

I play both gunner, and saberist. I mostly gun in open mode.

 

[Szunti]

Blob is the only thing that can damage sith from a distance. Plus the only counter to deflect. I agree that clones have too many blobs though.

 

[Lessen]

Minor side note: The ARC nade launcher's sticky nades are decent as a delayed-action knockdown on Sith. The delayed action gives the Sith a moment to try to retreat, but it also gives all gunners nearby a moment to notice what's going on and get ready to shoot.

(main point being that if you remove Concs you still have a ranged knockdown vs Sith. Also, of course, Frags and Conc Nades. Conc Nades are great if you have coordinated gunners but not that good on their own.)

 

[StarWarsGeek]

Clone doesn't need a rework. The only thing wrong with clone is it gets too many blobs for too few points. There's no reason to remove blobs, just give clones less blobs per level. One conc/ion per level is enough, and makes misses more punishing because you have fewer to waste. If one blob per 5 pts ends up being too severe of a nerf, point costs could be reduced to 3 or 4 per level.

More versatility can be achieved without a rework as well, and without copying features from other classes. Pulse nades are ARC's thing and there are already 3 classes on each team with an E-11. If a DC-15S is added it needs unique mechanics that differentiate it from E-11, otherwise you could just go play ET. Clones have tons of tools in the old EU and new canon that could be adapted for MB2 without needlessly reworking the class from the ground up.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Blob is the only thing that can damage sith from a distance. Plus the only counter to deflect. I agree that clones have too many blobs though.

Damaging a Sith from a distance isn't a good thing. What Imp class can do that? BH Poison? Please. Blob is an incredibly dumb ability, which is very difficult to balance for a plethora of reasons. I'd rather a Clone be more accurate to Star Wars, and more interesting, than a walking fast-firing blob-monkey.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Heh, why do we even still call it blob?

It was changed in b17? to that bolt of blue. It hasn't been that blob splatter from base...we have players who weren't even born yet, it's been that long!
I vote...we rename blob!

If anything, its more like a stun, say, the one Leia got hit with in the first SW movie

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Heh, why do we even still call it blob?

It was changed in b17? to that bolt of blue. It hasn't been that blob splatter from base...we have players who weren't even born yet, it's been that long!
I vote...we rename blob!

If anything, its more like a stun, say, the one Leia got hit with in the first SW movie

Then why does it deal any damage, and why didn't they just exclusively use that against Jedi, since apparently there is no defense against it.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Silence you fool! Do not question me with logic!

And because of the Force.

 

[DaloLorn]

Blob is the only thing that can damage sith from a distance. Plus the only counter to deflect. I agree that clones have too many blobs though.

Nonsense on both counts.

1. How about pistol bouncing? (Also, Achilles does have a point - the only 'damage Jedi from a distance' tool are poison darts, and those deal 10-20 HP apiece depending on whether the target can hide in a corner and meditate. Blobs will either A: cause some 60+ damage as the team picks up on the weakness in the Sith's defense or B: cause some 60+ damage while being used as a sort of 'Flinch Plus' tool fired at attacking Sith.)
2. How about pistol bouncing? ARC sticky grenades? Frag secondaries or concussive grenades? Raging Wookiees? Wookiees in general? CR3, for crying out loud?! (Not to mention the age-old classic of letting them get flinched when they inevitably get tired of waiting for your shots.)
   

Clone doesn't need a rework. The only thing wrong with clone is it gets too many blobs for too few points. There's no reason to remove blobs, just give clones less blobs per level. One conc/ion per level is enough, and makes misses more punishing because you have fewer to waste. If one blob per 5 pts ends up being too severe of a nerf, point costs could be reduced to 3 or 4 per level.

Blobs really need considerable skill or considerable reserves to work, though. Nerf them too much without offering an alternative playstyle, and some clones will most likely depart for the greener pastures of other classes. (This is because of something I mentioned over at Discord when this poll was posted - a good blobless clone is typically an excellent gunner and/or using a minigun, but an excellent blobber clone is most likely only 'good' without them. The class depends on blobs and inaccurate projectile spam to get anywhere, using its high armor as a crutch to compensate for the superior accuracy/firepower of other multi-life classes.)

More versatility can be achieved without a rework as well, and without copying features from other classes. Pulse nades are ARC's thing and there are already 3 classes on each team with an E-11. If a DC-15S is added it needs unique mechanics that differentiate it from E-11, otherwise you could just go play ET. Clones have tons of tools in the old EU and new canon that could be adapted for MB2 without needlessly reworking the class from the ground up.

Ridiculous. An E-11 takes what, 21 points to max out? (I'm guessing Achilles copied the point allocation from the E-11 here.) That still leaves 59 points for clone/ET pistols, sonic/frag grenades or DC-15As, dodge or pulse grenades, armor (of which the clone has a lot more than an ET), miniguns, a second life...

Let's assume you just want your bog-standard two-life E-11 as a baseline. That's a minimum of 51 points, leaving you with 29 points. As an ET, you can choose between a grenade (maybe two, not sure), some ammo and armor, Rally... as a post-revamp clone, you can choose between a few levels in the DC-15A (just enough to get full accuracy), a pair of pulse grenades, some ammo and armor, a low-grade minigun, full levels in either sprint or bash...

To be honest, though, as an ET I'd take the A280 any day - higher firepower, a scope, and the ability to spit out a burst of fiery death at anyone who gets too close! Sure, it doesn't fire as fast as the E-11, but at least it has the same accuracy stats, unlike the T-21.