Class limits in Open mode - yay or nay?

[Liniyka_xddd]

Basically, the thread title says it all. Class limit is something that in my opinion can both drastically improve the gaming experience, and at the same time can ruin all the fun. That is why I want to ask your opinion and your thoughts about if it can work, and how it should be handled.

I'm sure a lot of you played Team Fortress 2 - that game has many similarities with MB2, and it has a few mutual problems. And class picks is one of them. It is very common to join a server and find out that your team has 5 snipers, 5 spies, 3 soldiers and that's it. A team like that can still win, of course, but if enemies play smart and use all the classes together, they will surely win and have a much better experience altogether.

I feel MB2 is the same way - every day you see people spamming jedi/sith, clones and snipers without a care in the world. It's not uncommon for 75% of the server's population to only play saberist. And it often leads to some really depressing results.

That's why in TF2 most servers have a class limit feature - it's usually not too strict, but it makes sure your team stays at least somewhat diverse and effective. And it works. Now, the real question is - do you think this can work in MB2?

I am asking this because recently it became possible to implement such a feature server-side thanks to a script (made by the one and only - @Viserys). It is currently being tested on {BG} Class Limits server, so I suggest you check it out and see how it goes.

So, waddaya think?

 

[Nex]

It's not the matter of "if" but "when" devs decide to implement class limit feature. I was advocating for this idea for a long time and it's nice to finally see ppl are taking this under consideration, but after how many years? 10? Nice to see "progress" though. This is the very first feature that should have been built in to mb2 back in the days. Instead of wasting years and years on tweaking and changing saber system completely in every next major patch, devs should spend their resources on important things like class limit that could drastically improve overall gaming experience. Also, how does it work in TF2?

 

[Puppytine]

No, thank you.

Or at least give to server' owners right to decide do they want this option on or off.

 

[Gumba]

If someone with actual game knowledge decides them, yes.

The BG class limit server is terrible with 1 of each single life class other than jedi/sith

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

No, thank you.

Or at least give to server' owners right to decide do they want this option on or off.

Well, of course you enable it only if you want to. The class limits themselves can be customized as well, they aren't set in stone.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Also, how does it work in TF2

It's really simple - server owner sets the limit for each class, and you cannot select it if it's already full. If you try to pick a fully occupied class, you will be switched to a random available one.

 

[----Kas----]

I had a chance to play on EU Official Hardore Server with newly added class limit. The experience was great, so I opt for introducing this feature.

Unfortunately, if someone clearly fails to fulfil his class role, yet is too stubborn to cooperate and switch with others, the team is doomed to failure. On the other side, forcing someone to play certain role, will prevent him from learning other classes.
That is why I believe server owner should be able to configure the limits however he/she wants.

In short: There should be servers both with and without the class limit.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

I say yay because the game is very tolerable when class spam is limited to 5 instead of having 10 people the same class and only 3 of them are contributing to the team and everyone else.

Like for fuck sakes, when your team is 10 jedi and you decide to play clone or anything with a gun.
It becomes a fucking nightmare because the jedi form this wall and charge blindlessly into the enemy team completely blocking your line of sight. And even if you try to shoot around them, you will get those team damage points because fuck you.

We don't need 10 to 11 people playing the same class, regardless of the class.
It's not fun for the other team, and its not fun for the team that has to deal with useless teammates because they refuse to cooperate and try to balance the team.

No more than 5 people should be the same class.

 

[SeV]

The real problem occurs when there is a lack of diversity in the classes chosen. An 80% jedi team with a few hero snipers in the back is simply *****. I would, however, not want to ruin peoples fun either by setting a low and restricting Class limit. If one could base it on server population then set the upper bounds for jedi percentage at 50 or 60% of a team. Unlimited respawn classes and same principles with heroes etc, around 40-50%. A non restrictive limit existing purely to prevent full on 85% jedi charge retardation gameplay.

That's the only way I can see class limits working in open mode servers. People want to have fun, and super spam of any class is not fun, but some spam and class freedom choice should also be available. Cannot possibly expect ppl to want to play using match rules of 1 per class or 2 per class extended for 20 man open or 3 per class... feels to restricting and ruins ppls fun.

And what are games meant for if not to have fun.

 

[DaloLorn]

@SeV I found the BG class limits to be quite refreshing, although there is still room for adjustment:

• 6 soldiers per team makes soldiers a substantial presence, as I feel it should be.
• 3 ETs per team is a neat middle zone between the cannon fodder and the tougher classes.
• 2 saberists means that teams can afford to split up without needing precognitive abilities to determine where the enemy saberist is going to be.
• 2 clones is a neat bit of extra firepower... 2 Mandos is a bit wrong because of their sniper rifles. (Not because Mandos are inherently bad in this respect - see below.)
• 1 bounty hunter and the abovementioned 2 Mandos establishes a sniper cap of 3 snipers per team... except 1 hero and 1 ARC is a cap of 1.5 snipers if we're feeling generous towards the scoped M5.
• 1 SBD and 1 droideka prevent the nigh-unstoppable droid spam scenario. (Yes, I know, pulse grenades... but that still requires an ARC to willingly cripple himself on the off chance that his team will be able to coordinate.)
• 1 Wookiee is 1 Wookiee. I have nothing to say there.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

@SeV I found the BG class limits to be quite refreshing, although there is still room for adjustment:

• 6 soldiers per team makes soldiers a substantial presence, as I feel it should be.
• 3 ETs per team is a neat middle zone between the cannon fodder and the tougher classes.
• 2 saberists means that teams can afford to split up without needing precognitive abilities to determine where the enemy saberist is going to be.
• 2 clones is a neat bit of extra firepower... 2 Mandos is a bit wrong because of their sniper rifles. (Not because Mandos are inherently bad in this respect - see below.)
• 1 bounty hunter and the abovementioned 2 Mandos establishes a sniper cap of 3 snipers per team... except 1 hero and 1 ARC is a cap of 1.5 snipers if we're feeling generous towards the scoped M5.
• 1 SBD and 1 droideka prevent the nigh-unstoppable droid spam scenario. (Yes, I know, pulse grenades... but that still requires an ARC to willingly cripple himself on the off chance that his team will be able to coordinate.)
• 1 Wookiee is 1 Wookiee. I have nothing to say there.

Class limits have been changed to 6 solds, 3 ETs, and 2 of everything else except Deka and Wookiee (still limited to 1 player).

 

[Crusader]

very good yes

 

[Tempest]

Given that it's basically a public thing at this point with the script, I think I can mention the intentions for class limits without @Viserys chewing me out too much.

Basically the idea is going to be to have two forms of it (customizable by server owners ofc). The first would be pre-defined limits for each class (which seems to be the case on hardcore currently?). The second is having the limits for each class scale up based on server population. There's also to be some kind of team voting thing for getting someone off of a class when it's filled up but I'm not sure on all the details of that. Viserys can further explain/clarify anything else if she so wishes.

Now I hide in case the chewing out is what's supposed to happen. *poof*

 

[DaloLorn]

Given that it's basically a public thing at this point with the script, I think I can mention the intentions for class limits without @Viserys chewing me out too much.

Basically the idea is going to be to have two forms of it (customizable by server owners ofc). The first would be pre-defined limits for each class (which seems to be the case on hardcore currently?). The second is having the limits for each class scale up based on server population. There's also to be some kind of team voting thing for getting someone off of a class when it's filled up but I'm not sure on all the details of that. Viserys can further explain/clarify anything else if she so wishes.

Now I hide in case the chewing out is what's supposed to happen. *poof*

Actually, I think Hardcore is still scaling based on population (1-2 of each class). BG, on the other hand, has predefined limits.

 

[Viserys]

@Tempest is talking about properly coding class limits. At the moment they work in a "dirty" way via the script, and yes the script already supports both those modes.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

Class limits have been changed to 6 solds, 3 ETs, and 2 of everything else except Deka and Wookiee (still limited to 1 player).

It's a shame the active NA servers will never do this.

 

[Viserys]

It's a shame the active NA servers will never do this.

Well the script is available to any server owner if they want it

 

[Tempest]

It's a shame the active NA servers will never do this.

You'd actually be quite surprised.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

You'd actually be quite surprised.

So you are saying I can go on panda and this script will be on?
A server that is populated by users who actively fight against class limits, and has a giant following off site?

I am not talking about the NA officials, because every time I get a day off and login. They are empty.
Except the typical NA private run servers.

 

[LoU]

It's not the matter of "if" but "when" devs decide to implement class limit feature. I was advocating for this idea for a long time and it's nice to finally see ppl are taking this under consideration, but after how many years? 10? Nice to see "progress" though. This is the very first feature that should have been built in to mb2 back in the days. Instead of wasting years and years on tweaking and changing saber system completely in every next major patch, devs should spend their resources on important things like class limit that could drastically improve overall gaming experience. Also, how does it work in TF2?

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 ^

But... guess what will be the most featured thing in changelog of next build :|