Bullet speeds

[GoodOl'Ben]

Just a small thing on my mind as of late.

We increased bullet speeds two years ago. In the end the speeds were increased in a fairly reserved fashion. Only about 50% increase compared to what they used to be.

I've read some comments here and there where people think it would be better if it was faster than what it is now. It got me thinking whether we should increase them by 15-30%?

Thoughts?

 

[Lessen]

I really like where gunning is right now overall.

But I'm also curious about the idea of faster bullet speed and/or much lower strafe speeds to reduce the apparent "randomness" of the gunning.

But I also just really like the gunning where it is right now. This game has a really unique feel and I'm not going to try to explain it from a theoretical perspective, I'll just leave it at "I really like it."

I vote "fine as is." But I remain a tiny bit curious about "trying out" faster shot speed. But also suspect it would move away from what I like about the game, whatever that is exactly. Maybe it's dodging bullets. Maybe I like dodging bullets.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

I loved the blaster speed buff a few builds back but I still feel they are a bit too slow. 15-30% buff sounds good to me.

 

[FRANK LAMPART]

As long as the fp drains are adjusted with it, then I won't mind.

Faster projectiles = better accuracy = jedi/sith taking more hits easily.

 

[jango40]

I don't know. Slow bullet speeds are a huge part of what makes MB2 (And JKA/JKO in general) unique, most weapons are not insta-hit like in other games which makes aiming very different - you can't just shoot straight at somebody, you need to see where they move. Now, this increase isn't that big, but I don't know.

 

[Gargos]

I like the current speed atm. The speed buff was great but enough imo.

 

[Hexodious]

They should be faster, to improve accuracy/reliability.

 

[jewbacca]

Eh, I don't like faster bullet speeds tbh, but that's my personal preference. Let me express my thoughts, though.

Projectile weapons are super fun. RL from Quake is my most favorite weapon of all time.
However, I admit that MB2 is not Quake. Movement is different in MB2, even though not as fast it is more chaotic. Super slow projectile speeds wouldn't work well here :-/

I can think of several ways to improve projectile based weapons reliability
- Make movement more predictable. Tone down strafe speeds? Sure. To me it sounds like an easy way to ruin everything if used unwisely. I suggest a very small speed changes. Maybe class based, so you won't ruin dueling accidently.
- Make dam bullets more visible. Let them be as large and menacing as humanly possible. Visibility is quite important when it comes to projectile weapons, if you can't see your bullets you can't aim :-/
- Make bullets faster. I think it's fast enoguh already, though. To me the answer lies somewhere between these three changes. A bit here, a bit there and it should be nice. Right?

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Very good points by everyone.

The general vibe seems to be that we're at a decent place. Room for improvement here and there, but if something is done, it should be minor. Nothing drastic.

Perhaps looking at specific weapons and seeing if we could bring out interesting options with speed adjustments. For example: Boost E11 primary fire speed to make it a more useful tool to combat snipers than burst and in general make it a good long-distance option.

 

[Deleted member 2572]

We have cr3 anyways

 

[Apelsin]

Perhaps looking at specific weapons and seeing if we could bring out interesting options with speed adjustments.

Maybe A-280?

Projectile's current speed is good at encouraging short-distanced fights by making bullet's shots feel less skill-based, less rewarding and more random at longer distances. Most weapons are great at coexisting with that design effect, but A-280 feels very underwhelming at longer distances despite having a scope (or maybe it's me who don't know when to use this gun properly ).

 

[Lessen]

For example: Boost E11 primary fire speed to make it a more useful tool to combat snipers than burst and in general make it a good long-distance option.

E-11 primary already has a faster shot speed than E-11 secondary, although iirc it's more that the secondary is slower than every other gun in the game, while primary is more of an "average speed." Anyway, the primary is still already the better long range option in my experience. Making it fasterer would be neat though.

Maybe A-280?

Projectile's current speed is good at encouraging short-distanced fights by making bullet's shots feel less skill-based, less rewarding and more random at longer distances. Most weapons are great at coexisting with that design effect, but A-280 feels very underwhelming at longer distances despite having a scope (or maybe it's me who don't know when to use this gun properly ).

A280 primary (but not secondary) has a pretty high projectile speed that lets it "secure" shots at longer ranges. Like medium-long range. Not like "DOTF-hallway end-to-end" range. Anyway I've kicked some ass with it and think it's very good at it's midlongrange precision dmg role once you make sense of it, especially since it's attached to a 2-life class so if you get outsniped you're fine.

you can't just shoot straight at somebody, you need to see where they move

i also think this fact gives mb2 a "mindgames" aspect because to "see where they move" you have to know what they're thinking. Achilles argues that this makes gunning too random, and he "proves" his point by showing that if he just moves super randomly he's impossible to hit consistently... but...... i don't think his point can be applied in-game, because it's hard to move that randomly while also trying to get anything in particular done. Except stalling, I guess.

 

[handzummest]

travel speeds are fine. i like the balance between psychological play (faking out other gunners with strafing) and physical skill (making your shots). think about how this would affect saber fights in open. faster shots means less chance to swing against that pesky sith without being shot. faster shots would also harm sniper playstyles, but primarily the one that's already worse (disruptor rifle). e11 primary is already great, and if you buff it any further you will never see me using anything more than e11 1 again, as its extremely difficult to justify the extra 7/8 points for a fire mode that is blatantly worse.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I have tested a 35% faster blaster speed with a dev. It is absolutely amazing, and fixes a lot of issues about aiming. I would even go as far as saying a 100% faster blaster speed is far better. However, anything greater than 50% blaster speed causes severe issues with clipping through reflective windows a couple feet before bouncing back we noticed.

If that bug is addressed some how, then I would highly recommend 100% faster blaster speeds, it just feels more Star Wars, and far more consistent in combat itself.


Anywho, while Lessen may fart rainbows all over this game, 'it's fine' doesn't strike me as a valuable term. I say 'It's meh, but can be better'

 

[Lessen]

guy-who-farts-rainbows here, your enthusiasm for the faster-blaster version increases my existing curiosity.

also my "it's fine" conservatism is bolstered by the fact that i like this game more than any other, and don't want to see it ruined.

but sure yes, open to tryin' stuff.

(especially in the realm of saber combat, since as you pointed out over in uh meme battles, i am a gunner main and can not speak with any authority on life-as-a-saberist.)

by the way, i suppose i could agree that 1 saberist vs 1 gunner right now is "too random," but in practice i don't reaaally mind since adding teamwork to the situation makes things more "controllable." It's still my favorite game. You're still welcome to improve on it, as far as I care.

 

[Hexodious]

I can see why you are cautious, but it was also "fine" before we increased it last time. And it turned out to be a great change in the right direction. I'd happily see another bump.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

I can see why you are cautious, but it was also "fine" before we increased it last time. And it turned out to be a great change in the right direction. I'd happily see another bump.

We should be able to change the value server side I believe so we could bump the speed for a period of time on the official servers to have people try it out and see what their opinion is afterwards.

 

[Smee]

Blobs need to be slowed down, sith have no counter to a blob because they are fast as fuark

 

[Hexodious]

I feel blobs would be better if they had rules similar to push, in that the targets movement state changes how it affects them.

Running: Blob Knocks down on hit.
Mid-Air: Blob Knocks down on hit.
Other-states: Blob Staggers on hit.

The Clone still gets a reward of lowering defenses for a moment, but the opponent (inc gunners) can block(walk)/crouch into it to get free movement. Most of the strength in the knockdown is the very restricted movement out of knockdowns, so being staggered is preferable to being knocked completely down. This also keeps the counter play vs Jump slash/Mandalorians flying to rocket dive you.

In general I think less "always" knockdowns are needed in the game, add some options to counter-play. *cough*remove secondary frag nades*cough*

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

I feel blobs would be better if they had rules similar to push, in that the targets movement state changes how it affects them.

Running: Blob Knocks down on hit.
Mid-Air: Blob Knocks down on hit.
Other-states: Blob Staggers on hit.

The Clone still gets a reward of lowering defenses for a moment, but the opponent (inc gunners) can block(walk)/crouch into it to get free movement. Most of the strength in the knockdown is the very restricted movement out of knockdowns, so being staggered is preferable to being knocked completely down. This also keeps the counter play vs Jump slash/Mandalorians flying to rocket dive you.

In general I think less "always" knockdowns are needed in the game, add some options to counter-play. *cough*remove secondary frag nades*cough*

That's overly complicated. We need less knockdowns, not more rules regarding them tbh.

Remove blobs/alt frag (Nerf push/pull and SBD slap as well), replace blobs with something better. I mean for god's sake, Clone has *one* weapon. Granted it's an incredibly broken weapon, but still only one.