Alt's Jedi/Sith Open Mode Compendium

[{Δ} Achilles]

Note: These changes are meant to be taken into account with my 'Manifesto' which is found here:
Alt's MB2 Manifesto

Before reading, read *all* of it before furiously typing stupidity below please. You can disagree with it all you like, as long as you *understand* what you're disagreeing with, and have valid reasons for why you disagree with it.

Class Changes:
* Jedi blaster block radius is reduced to a 45-60 degree arc.

* Jedi receives no Damage Reduction.

* Force focus is changed to having infinite range, works on all classes, and allows the Jedi to gain a forward movement speed bonus while focusing the target.

* FP is no longer a factor in saber vs gunning, it is only used for force powers, and the FP regen rate is lowered.

* Jedi cannot swingblock to avoid damage from gunners, instead they can only avoid damage by feinting.

* After every successfully deflected shot, the Jedi can half-swing.

* Saber deflect is now a tap, and requires timing. Deflect remains active for 500ms but then has a 300ms 'deactive' time where the Jedi/Sith can take damage. Deflect works at all ranges. Enemy gunners hit by deflected shots are staggered.

* Jedi non-force jump height reduced by 50%

* Melee katas disarm Jedi/Sith/Gunners of lightsabers/weapons at the end of the kata.

Saber Defense/Force Block (Saber Defense is split into Saber Defense and Blaster Defense)

Spoiler: Saber Defense

Saber Defense
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-4-10
Level 1: Cannot block sabers. (But can PB them/Mblock them)

Level 2: Current saber defense 1

Level 3: Current saber defense 2

Spoiler: Blaster Defense

Blaster Defense
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-4-10
Level 1: Cannot block blaster bolts. (But can deflect them)

Level 2: Blaster block arc is reduced to 15-20 degrees

Level 3: Blaster block arc is set to 40-60 degrees

Spoiler: Force Affinity

* Force Block is removed
Jedi are now vulnerable to force powers while running, knocked down, or jumping. If someone is knocked down, lock-on abilities such as grip/lightning (see below) are activated 100% faster.

Force Affinity (replaces Force Block)
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-4-10
Level 1: FP regens 25% slower, and you get 80 FP.

Level 2: FP regens normally, and you get 100 FP.

Level 3: FP regens 25% faster, and you get 150 FP.

Saber Styles

Spoiler: Style Costs

Saber style cost changes:
Fast: 4-0-4
Medium: 2-4-2
Strong: 4-0-4

Open mode perks

Spoiler: Blue

Blue style users have a 90 degree blaster block arc, instead of a 45 degree block arc.
Blue users regen FP 25% faster while blocking.

Spoiler: Cyan

Cyan users can perform acrobatics/wall grabs with no FP cost, and backflips cost no FP/BP.

Spoiler: Duals

Dual saber kata costs 20 FP/s and while activated the Jedi can walk. Kata deflects blaster bolts in a 220 degree radius automatically.
Dual saber spinning attacks cannot be flinched.

Spoiler: Yellow

Yellow receives no perk.

Spoiler: Staff

Staff kata costs 25 FP/s and while activated the Jedi can walk. Kata deflects blaster bolts in a 300 degree radius automatically.
Staff user can block/deflect blaster bolts in a much wider radius than other styles.

Spoiler: Purple

Purple deals 40% more damage with a deflected shot, and the active deflect time is increased to 800ms while walking.

Spoiler: Red

Red's first swing cannot be flinched by a gunner, and has a 35% damage reduction.

Force Powers:

Spoiler: Sense

* Force Sense
- Level 1 -
Point Cost: 2
Cost: 5 FP/s
Range: 20 Meters
Effects:
- Can hear targets through walls

- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 10 FP/s
Range: 25 Meters
Effects:
- Can hear targets through walls
- Displays running/firing targets on the minimap as red arrows

- Level 3 -
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 10 FP/s
Range: 30 Meters
Effects:
- Can hear targets through walls
- Displays running/firing targets on the minimap as red arrows
- Can see auras of running/attacking targets through walls

Spoiler: Force Push

* Force Push
Push must be charged for the full effect, fully charged push takes 1 second, if released early it will only push targets back and push projectiles. If shot whilst charging, it is canceled and the FP is lost.

- Level 1 -
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 70 FP
Range: 5 meters
Arc: Aimed directly at target
Targets take 30 damage from being pushed into walls/objects, 10 damage from being pushed onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 5m it will knock down a running target
- At 3-5m it will knock down running targets, and stagger walking targets
- At 1-3m it will knock down walking targets

- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 75 FP
Range: 7 meters
Arc: 60 degrees
Targets take 30 damage from being pushed into walls/objects, 10 damage from being pushed onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 7m it will knock down running targets
- At 5-7m it will knock down targets that are running, and stagger targets that are walking.
- At 3-5m it will knock down and push back targets that are walking.
- At 1-3m it will stagger and push back targets that are crouched.

- Level 3 -
Point Cost: 8
Cost: 80 FP
Range: 10 meters
Arc: 100 degrees
Targets take 30 damage from being pushed into walls/objects, 10 damage from being pushed onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 7-10m it will knock down targets that are running.
- At 5-7m it will knock down targets that are running, and stagger targets that are walking.
- At 3-5m it will knock down and push back targets that are walking.
- At 1-3m it will knock down and push back targets that are crouched.

Spoiler: Force Pull

* Force Pull
- Level 1 -
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 50 FP
Range: 3 meters
Arc: Aimed directly at target
Effects:
- At 3 meters, target is pulled closer, and running gunners are disarmed.

- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 60 FP
Range: 5 meters
Arc: Aimed directly at target
Targets take 10 damage from being pulled onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 3-5 meters, target is pulled closer, and running gunners are disarmed.
- At 1-3, target is pulled to the ground if running, and running gunners are disarmed.

- Level 3 -
Requires windup time of 1 second, otherwise targets are only pulled closer. If shot whilst charging, it is canceled and the FP is lost.
Point Cost: 8
Cost: 75 FP
Range: 5 meters
Arc: 60 degrees
Targets take 10 damage from being pulled onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 3-5 meters, walking targets are disarmed, running targets are pulled to the ground and disarmed.
- At 1-3 meters, walking targets are pulled to the ground and disarmed, crouched targets are disarmed.

Spoiler: Speed

* Force Speed
Speed is added to Sith and Jedi

- Level 1 -
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 10 FP/s
Effects:
- 150% movement speed

- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 15 FP/s
Effects:
- 175% movement speed
- Can speed lunge

- Level 3 -
Point Cost: 8
Cost: 20 FP/s
Effects:
- 200% movement speed
- Can speed lunge
- Can swing once during speed, but it ends in the return animation.

Spoiler: Mind Trick

* Mind Trick
- Level 1 -
Point Cost: 8
Cost: 25 FP/s
Range: Infinite
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Jedi becomes invisible to target
- Jedi does 200% more damage to target on first hit

- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 20 FP/s
Range: Infinite
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Jedi becomes invisible to target
- Target's vision becomes blurred
- Jedi does 250% more damage to target on first hit

- Level 3 -
Point Cost: 8
Cost: 15 FP/s
Range: 30 meters
Arc: 360 degrees
Effects:
- Jedi becomes invisible to targets
- Jedi does 300% more damage to target on first hit

Spoiler: Battle Meditation

* Battle Meditation
- Level 1 -
Jedi is forced to meditate while activated.
Point Cost: 14
Cost: 10 FP/s
Range: 40 meters
Arc: 360 degrees
Effects:
- Allies have a 10% bonus to movement speed
- Allies do 10% more damage
- Allies take 10% less damage

- Level 2 -
Jedi is forced to meditate while activated.
Point Cost: 10
Cost: 15 FP/s
Range: 40 meters
Arc: 360 degrees
Effects:
- Allies have a 20% bonus to movement speed
- Allies do 20% more damage
- Allies take 20% less damage

- Level 3 -
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 20 FP/s
Range: 10 meters
Arc: 360 degrees
Effects:
- Allies have a 20% bonus to movement speed
- Allies do 20% more damage
- Allies take 20% less damage

Spoiler: Lightning

* Force Lightning
Wookiees that are electrocuted for more than 2 seconds are set on fire. Sith must walk while using lightning and cannot jump.

Lightning can be reflected into the Sith by a Jedi using deflect with a lightsaber.

- Level 1 -
Requires the Sith to aim at the target for 3 seconds before the lightning occurs, similar to griplock.
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 20 FP/s while locking on to target
Range: 7 meters
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Blasts a bolt of lightning at target for 1 seconds
- Knocks down running targets
- Staggers all other targets
- Deals 40 damage

- Level 2 -
Requires the Sith to aim at the target for 2 seconds before the lightning occurs, similar to griplock.
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 10 FP/s while locking on, 15 FP/s while activated
Range: 7 meters
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Electrocutes target with lightning while lock-on is held
- Knocks down running targets
- Deals 20 damage per second that bypasses armor
- Staggers target continuously, and pushes them back

- Level 3 -
Has a windup time of 2 seconds

One Handed:
Point Cost: 10
Cost: 30 FP/s
Range: 4 meters
Arc: 80 degrees
Effects:
- Electrocutes targets with lightning
- Knocks down running targets
- Deals 25 damage per second that bypasses armor
- Staggers target continuously, and pushes them back

Two Handed:
Point Cost: 10
Cost: 20 FP/s
Range: 4 meters
Arc: 120 degrees
Effects:
- Electrocutes targets with lightning
- Knocks down running targets
- Deals 30 damage per second that bypasses armor
- Staggers target continuously, and pushes them back

Spoiler: Choke

* Force Choke
- Level 1 -
Requires 4 seconds of lock-on, choking can be stopped by Sith taking damage.
Point Cost: 8
Cost: 10 FP/s while locking on to target, 5 FP/s when choking
Range: Infinite
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Target is slowed 40%, and begins choking.
- After 8 seconds of continued choking the target dies. If released early, target regains its health back.
- Can be used with sense 3 to choke targets through walls.

- Level 2 -
Requires 3 seconds of lock-on, choking can be stopped by Sith taking damage.
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 10 FP/s while locking on to target, 5 FP/s when choking
Range: 10 meters
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Target is slowed 20% every second until being immobilized and forced to kneel.
- Target cannot fire while choking.
- After 7 seconds of continued choking the target dies. If released early, target regains its health back.

- Level 3 -
Requires 3 seconds of lock-on, choking can be stopped by Sith taking damage.
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 10 FP/s while locking on to target, 5 FP/s when choking
Range: 5 meters
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Target is lifted into the air while choking.
- Target cannot fire while choking.
- After 6 seconds of continued choking the target dies. If released early, target regains its health back.

- Sith can use lightning to electrocute target during the choking, which deals high damage and prevents Jedi from pushing/pulling out of it.
- Sith can use saber throw to impale target during the choking, which deals high damage.
- Sith can use force push to send the target flying into walls/knocked down for high damage.
- Sith can use force pull to disarm the target of any blasters/lightsabers.
- If the Sith has push 3/pull 3, he can press the use button while choking to crush the target's body, killing the target immediately, and draining the Sith of all force.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Your solution to blandness is to make all styles equally bland?

And no, these are open mode perks, while some styles may be better suited to some tasks, they would all be capable of dueling in relatively the same mannerisms. Why would all styles have the exact same level of viability in the exact same situations? What is the purpose to having different styles then?

 

[Vizino]

This is the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life ∞/10

 

[Deleted member 1498]

fair enough but i still think this seems a bit bland

having styles which are meant to do certain purposes such as how you put cyan to be an acrobatic style, blue a defensive style etc. is uninteresting to me and it almost inevitably makes it like 'blue beats yellow, yellow beats red' and i find that rather dull

i'd honestly rather they removed all the perks and really leveled out the styles (a good example of fairly level styles is the Ja+ mod - where yellow red and blue are all equally viable) - that way there's creative freedom to find a style you like the feel of and that you like visually without any backlash or negative consequences

there are already a number of posts suggesting changes which suit the above description more, and personally I think they're more interesting and allow saberists the creativity which many of us enjoy when it comes to creating your own 'signature' style

Having played since late 2012 and having fought a lot of US players, I can say that there is already balance when it comes to styles beating other styles. The only styles that DO need some tweaking are blue and cyan for how significantly easier it is to destroy opponents comparative to yellow. I do use blue in my build, as well as staff, but using blue to be unbelievably fast with half swinging makes me feel scummy, even if it does let me beat Takuta with ease Yellow has to be the base comparison because of how, just like Altroll said, it is a jack of all trades. Purple is totally viable and perfect IMO, red needs tweaking, a buff, yellow is good as is (iirc nerf inc for mblock spam bp defense reduction?). Staff is my favorite (mblocks ofc), might need tweaking but it is a little on the powerhouse side I do admit. Duals are perfect, love using them even though they aren't my preferred style.

I understand where you come from by suggesting the removal of perks, these styles are fine as is and don't need to have perks enabled, but just like Altroll said, it'll make all styles bland. I do have a soft spot for the stuff Altroll suggests though, he and I think alike on many areas, but removing perks would defeat the interesting bonuses in open mode. It also changes up the way Jedi/Sith have to play depending on the situation sometimes, i.e. need more deflect/defense cause gunner spam ~ purple deflect or blue deflect and semi-aggressive Jedi/Sith.

 

[noel]

Having played since late 2012 and having fought a lot of US players, I can say that there is already balance when it comes to styles beating other styles. The only styles that DO need some tweaking are blue and cyan for how significantly easier it is to destroy opponents comparative to yellow. I do use blue in my build, as well as staff, but using blue to be unbelievably fast with half swinging makes me feel scummy, even if it does let me beat Takuta with ease Yellow has to be the base comparison because of how, just like Altroll said, it is a jack of all trades. Purple is totally viable and perfect IMO, red needs tweaking, a buff, yellow is good as is (iirc nerf inc for mblock spam bp defense reduction?). Staff is my favorite (mblocks ofc), might need tweaking but it is a little on the powerhouse side I do admit. Duals are perfect, love using them even though they aren't my preferred style.

I understand where you come from by suggesting the removal of perks, these styles are fine as is and don't need to have perks enabled, but just like Altroll said, it'll make all styles bland. I do have a soft spot for the stuff Altroll suggests though, he and I think alike on many areas, but removing perks would defeat the interesting bonuses in open mode. It also changes up the way Jedi/Sith have to play depending on the situation sometimes, i.e. need more deflect/defense cause gunner spam ~ purple deflect or blue deflect and semi-aggressive Jedi/Sith.

or i mean dont change them - i'd just rather yellow didn't get made even weaker by removing it's perk

agree about cyan and especially blue, blue half swing spam is impossible to defeat with yellow, as each swing interrupts yours unless you move out of range and come back in over and over

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Saber tier list: Purple>Staff>Blue>Cyan>Yellow>Duals>Red

Cyan is only a bit better than yellow, it's pretty easy to deal with otherwise, the only issue is the occasional random perfect parry.

Purple potentially is the absolute most OP style available, followed by Staff.


Yellow doesn't have an open mode perk atm Noel, it wouldn't be made worse at all, it'd remain the same.

 

[noel]

Saber tier list: Purple>Staff>Blue>Cyan>Yellow>Duals>Red

Cyan is only a bit better than yellow, it's pretty easy to deal with otherwise, the only issue is the occasional random perfect parry.

Purple potentially is the absolute most OP style available, followed by Staff.


Yellow doesn't have an open mode perk atm Noel, it wouldn't be made worse at all, it'd remain the same.

What about the MB thing, does that not happen in Open?

I'd put it something more like:

blue>cyan>staff>purple>duals>yellow>red

 

[Deleted member 1498]

What about the MB thing, does that not happen in Open?

I'd put it something more like:

blue>cyan>staff>purple>duals>yellow>red

For me, my little saber ranking system is based on if you are an expert at any given style. As in Takuta/Kael/Jace and a few others as well as myself.

Purple (over all do to it's extremely powerful riposte/parry skill, much more bp dmg compared to Blue's take on it)

Blue (over Cyan due to it's riposte/parry perfection as well as half-swings)

Cyan (over Staff due to it's long as hell swings and speed, note that it's very much tied because of Staff being a powerhouse)

Staff (over Yellow because of how I think the bp dmg is more)

Yellow (over Duals for how I think the bp dmg is more as well)

Duals (over Red for bp dmg)

Red (lowest because bp dmg =/ slow speed)

I have it set up like this because even though I consider these styles from strongest to weakest, it of course does not mean Purple beats everything. I've yet to find a purple user to beat my Staff or Blue. That is also why I prefaced the rankings by those who are experts in sabering, because they will always continue to adapt after more and more fights to defeat any other style, instead of pulling the 'ole Apex Yellow masterrace and temper tantrum when losing to a style other than Yellow. Said experts would also know the other style's pb zones, windups, as well as use prediction accurately vs any style. Many that I have face say one style, like Blue or Staff is too broken because I usually beat the shit out of them, but they would rather call it broken then train harder because they already believe they don't need to train any further. Kind of some sort of ridiculous concept many players have compared to other styles; they just have not found a way to defeat a certain style. Like IRL, if let's say a master of Aikido fights a master of Kung Fu, they aren't going to fight one way all the time, or one specific way vs all other opponents as well. They adapt, change, learn, progress. /endrant

Anyways, I honestly do think this is the current tier list.

 

[FRANK LAMPART]

What kind of paint thinner were you sniffing when you thought of this??




Jk. I actually love your changes, It's a cool idea and you've cleverly balanced it out somewhat. It's more in-line with how Jedi look and fight in the films as well which is great.

My only issue is the infinite projectile blocking - In 1vs1 situations vs gunners it would be far too one-sided I think. Who knows maybe not because it looks like you've made it very easy for gunners to flank Jedi/Sith with the extremely small block radius, and with no dmg reduction they'd be dead very quickly if not positioned right.

I genuinely believe the dev team should implement this in a beta test, maybe an open beta just to see how it plays out.

 

[noel]

For me, my little saber ranking system is based on if you are an expert at any given style. As in Takuta/Kael/Jace and a few others as well as myself.

Purple (over all do to it's extremely powerful riposte/parry skill, much more bp dmg compared to Blue's take on it)

Blue (over Cyan due to it's riposte/parry perfection as well as half-swings)

Cyan (over Staff due to it's long as hell swings and speed, note that it's very much tied because of Staff being a powerhouse)

Staff (over Yellow because of how I think the bp dmg is more)

Yellow (over Duals for how I think the bp dmg is more as well)

Duals (over Red for bp dmg)

Red (lowest because bp dmg =/ slow speed)

I have it set up like this because even though I consider these styles from strongest to weakest, it of course does not mean Purple beats everything. I've yet to find a purple user to beat my Staff or Blue. That is also why I prefaced the rankings by those who are experts in sabering, because they will always continue to adapt after more and more fights to defeat any other style, instead of pulling the 'ole Apex Yellow masterrace and temper tantrum when losing to a style other than Yellow. Said experts would also know the other style's pb zones, windups, as well as use prediction accurately vs any style. Many that I have face say one style, like Blue or Staff is too broken because I usually beat the shit out of them, but they would rather call it broken then train harder because they already believe they don't need to train any further. Kind of some sort of ridiculous concept many players have compared to other styles; they just have not found a way to defeat a certain style. Like IRL, if let's say a master of Aikido fights a master of Kung Fu, they aren't going to fight one way all the time, or one specific way vs all other opponents as well. They adapt, change, learn, progress. /endrant

Anyways, I honestly do think this is the current tier list.

Fair point, haven't ever tried to play purple/red against blue, i can only imagine its harder to do than yellow though

are you saying that like all styles vs blue is more balanced than all styles vs purple?

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Staff is far stronger than yellow/cyan, and even stronger than blue. Staff does slightly less damage than yellow, but the speed of its half swings make it lethal. Purple is the strongest style in the game potentially because of its PB perk, Staff potentially because of its mblock and its speed, followed by blue just because of its obnoxious speed.

Cyan is fast, but not nearly so much as blue, and as a result its damage is extremely low. You can actively out-damaged a cyan user very easily with yellow. Duals are incredibly weak, as is red.

What kind of paint thinner were you sniffing when you thought of this??




Jk. I actually love your changes, It's a cool idea and you've cleverly balanced it out somewhat. It's more in-line with how Jedi look and fight in the films as well which is great.

My only issue is the infinite projectile blocking - In 1vs1 situations vs gunners it would be far too one-sided I think. Who knows maybe not because it looks like you've made it very easy for gunners to flank Jedi/Sith with the extremely small block radius, and with no dmg reduction they'd be dead very quickly if not positioned right.

I genuinely believe the dev team should implement this in a beta test, maybe an open beta just to see how it plays out.

Thanks, glad you like them. I doubt anything will ever come of them though. Also, yes, the infinite blocking thing is actually not as strong as you might think against a *good* gunner. I believe I might also think of a way to make it not-so-infinite blocking when put against a weapon like minigun from my manifesto, or an Eweb.

 

[Deleted member 1498]

Fair point, haven't ever tried to play purple/red against blue, i can only imagine its harder to do than yellow though

are you saying that like all styles vs blue is more balanced than all styles vs purple?

I do want to say that even though I did rank it exactly in that order, all styles vs blue is less balanced than vs purple. Blue and Cyan do need some tweaking, it has been stated that they are getting tweaked as well, so that should give some insight on its balance currently. Blue can simply eliminate everyone's style due to it's sheer speed and half-swing speed, it's just too much. Now it isn't impossible, I made that clear when only now that Purplehoodedman is the only Blue user that has actually bested me (and half and half on Jace/MadMax) but I do want to say that Purple is more relying on it's perk, OR it's riposte/parry powerhouse system.

Blue is powerful, but too powerful for what it's main core skills are on, the swings/half-swings. A change is necessary because for now, it ranks far higher than Cyan, but like Altroll said, Purple is top for potential.