Alt's Jedi/Sith Open Mode Compendium

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Note: These changes are meant to be taken into account with my 'Manifesto' which is found here:
Alt's MB2 Manifesto


Before reading, read *all* of it before furiously typing stupidity below please. You can disagree with it all you like, as long as you *understand* what you're disagreeing with, and have valid reasons for why you disagree with it.

Class Changes:

* Jedi blaster block radius is reduced to a 45-60 degree arc.

* Jedi receives no Damage Reduction.

* Force focus is changed to having infinite range, works on all classes, and allows the Jedi to gain a forward movement speed bonus while focusing the target.

* FP is no longer a factor in saber vs gunning, it is only used for force powers, and the FP regen rate is lowered.

* Jedi cannot swingblock to avoid damage from gunners, instead they can only avoid damage by feinting.

* After every successfully deflected shot, the Jedi can half-swing.

* Saber deflect is now a tap, and requires timing. Deflect remains active for 500ms but then has a 300ms 'deactive' time where the Jedi/Sith can take damage. Deflect works at all ranges. Enemy gunners hit by deflected shots are staggered.

* Jedi non-force jump height reduced by 50%

* Melee katas disarm Jedi/Sith/Gunners of lightsabers/weapons at the end of the kata.


Saber Defense/Force Block (Saber Defense is split into Saber Defense and Blaster Defense)
Saber Defense
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-4-10
Level 1: Cannot block sabers. (But can PB them/Mblock them)

Level 2: Current saber defense 1

Level 3: Current saber defense 2
Blaster Defense
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-4-10
Level 1: Cannot block blaster bolts. (But can deflect them)

Level 2: Blaster block arc is reduced to 15-20 degrees

Level 3: Blaster block arc is set to 40-60 degrees
* Force Block is removed
Jedi are now vulnerable to force powers while running, knocked down, or jumping. If someone is knocked down, lock-on abilities such as grip/lightning (see below) are activated 100% faster.

Force Affinity (replaces Force Block)
Levels: 1, 2, 3
Cost: 0-4-10
Level 1: FP regens 25% slower, and you get 80 FP.

Level 2: FP regens normally, and you get 100 FP.

Level 3: FP regens 25% faster, and you get 150 FP.

Saber Styles
Saber style cost changes:
Fast: 4-0-4
Medium: 2-4-2
Strong: 4-0-4

Open mode perks
Blue style users have a 90 degree blaster block arc, instead of a 45 degree block arc.
Blue users regen FP 25% faster while blocking.

Cyan users can perform acrobatics/wall grabs with no FP cost, and backflips cost no FP/BP.

Dual saber kata costs 20 FP/s and while activated the Jedi can walk. Kata deflects blaster bolts in a 220 degree radius automatically.
Dual saber spinning attacks cannot be flinched.

Yellow receives no perk.

Staff kata costs 25 FP/s and while activated the Jedi can walk. Kata deflects blaster bolts in a 300 degree radius automatically.
Staff user can block/deflect blaster bolts in a much wider radius than other styles.

Purple deals 40% more damage with a deflected shot, and the active deflect time is increased to 800ms while walking.

Red's first swing cannot be flinched by a gunner, and has a 35% damage reduction.


Force Powers:
* Force Sense
- Level 1 -
Point Cost: 2
Cost: 5 FP/s
Range: 20 Meters
Effects:
- Can hear targets through walls


- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 10 FP/s
Range: 25 Meters
Effects:
- Can hear targets through walls
- Displays running/firing targets on the minimap as red arrows


- Level 3 -
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 10 FP/s
Range: 30 Meters
Effects:
- Can hear targets through walls
- Displays running/firing targets on the minimap as red arrows
- Can see auras of running/attacking targets through walls

* Force Push
Push must be charged for the full effect, fully charged push takes 1 second, if released early it will only push targets back and push projectiles. If shot whilst charging, it is canceled and the FP is lost.

- Level 1 -

Point Cost: 4
Cost: 70 FP
Range: 5 meters
Arc: Aimed directly at target
Targets take 30 damage from being pushed into walls/objects, 10 damage from being pushed onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 5m it will knock down a running target
- At 3-5m it will knock down running targets, and stagger walking targets
- At 1-3m it will knock down walking targets


- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 75 FP
Range: 7 meters
Arc: 60 degrees
Targets take 30 damage from being pushed into walls/objects, 10 damage from being pushed onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 7m it will knock down running targets
- At 5-7m it will knock down targets that are running, and stagger targets that are walking.
- At 3-5m it will knock down and push back targets that are walking.
- At 1-3m it will stagger and push back targets that are crouched.


- Level 3 -

Point Cost: 8
Cost: 80 FP
Range: 10 meters
Arc: 100 degrees
Targets take 30 damage from being pushed into walls/objects, 10 damage from being pushed onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 7-10m it will knock down targets that are running.
- At 5-7m it will knock down targets that are running, and stagger targets that are walking.
- At 3-5m it will knock down and push back targets that are walking.
- At 1-3m it will knock down and push back targets that are crouched.

* Force Pull
- Level 1 -

Point Cost: 4
Cost: 50 FP
Range: 3 meters
Arc: Aimed directly at target
Effects:
- At 3 meters, target is pulled closer, and running gunners are disarmed.


- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 4
Cost: 60 FP
Range: 5 meters
Arc: Aimed directly at target
Targets take 10 damage from being pulled onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 3-5 meters, target is pulled closer, and running gunners are disarmed.
- At 1-3, target is pulled to the ground if running, and running gunners are disarmed.


- Level 3 -
Requires windup time of 1 second, otherwise targets are only pulled closer. If shot whilst charging, it is canceled and the FP is lost.
Point Cost: 8
Cost: 75 FP
Range: 5 meters
Arc: 60 degrees
Targets take 10 damage from being pulled onto the ground.
Effects:
- At 3-5 meters, walking targets are disarmed, running targets are pulled to the ground and disarmed.
- At 1-3 meters, walking targets are pulled to the ground and disarmed, crouched targets are disarmed.

* Force Speed
Speed is added to Sith and Jedi


- Level 1 -

Point Cost: 6
Cost: 10 FP/s
Effects:
- 150% movement speed


- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 15 FP/s
Effects:
- 175% movement speed
- Can speed lunge


- Level 3 -
Point Cost: 8
Cost: 20 FP/s
Effects:
- 200% movement speed
- Can speed lunge
- Can swing once during speed, but it ends in the return animation.

* Mind Trick
- Level 1 -

Point Cost: 8
Cost: 25 FP/s
Range: Infinite
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Jedi becomes invisible to target
- Jedi does 200% more damage to target on first hit


- Level 2 -
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 20 FP/s
Range: Infinite
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Jedi becomes invisible to target
- Target's vision becomes blurred
- Jedi does 250% more damage to target on first hit


- Level 3 -
Point Cost: 8
Cost: 15 FP/s
Range: 30 meters
Arc: 360 degrees
Effects:
- Jedi becomes invisible to targets
- Jedi does 300% more damage to target on first hit

* Battle Meditation
- Level 1 -
Jedi is forced to meditate while activated.

Point Cost: 14
Cost: 10 FP/s
Range: 40 meters
Arc: 360 degrees
Effects:
- Allies have a 10% bonus to movement speed
- Allies do 10% more damage
- Allies take 10% less damage


- Level 2 -
Jedi is forced to meditate while activated.

Point Cost: 10
Cost: 15 FP/s
Range: 40 meters
Arc: 360 degrees
Effects:
- Allies have a 20% bonus to movement speed
- Allies do 20% more damage
- Allies take 20% less damage


- Level 3 -
Point Cost: 6
Cost: 20 FP/s
Range: 10 meters
Arc: 360 degrees
Effects:
- Allies have a 20% bonus to movement speed
- Allies do 20% more damage
- Allies take 20% less damage

* Force Lightning
Wookiees that are electrocuted for more than 2 seconds are set on fire. Sith must walk while using lightning and cannot jump.

Lightning can be reflected into the Sith by a Jedi using deflect with a lightsaber.


- Level 1 -
Requires the Sith to aim at the target for 3 seconds before the lightning occurs, similar to griplock.

Point Cost: 4
Cost: 20 FP/s while locking on to target
Range: 7 meters
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Blasts a bolt of lightning at target for 1 seconds
- Knocks down running targets
- Staggers all other targets
- Deals 40 damage


- Level 2 -
Requires the Sith to aim at the target for 2 seconds before the lightning occurs, similar to griplock.

Point Cost: 6
Cost: 10 FP/s while locking on, 15 FP/s while activated
Range: 7 meters
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Electrocutes target with lightning while lock-on is held
- Knocks down running targets
- Deals 20 damage per second that bypasses armor
- Staggers target continuously, and pushes them back


- Level 3 -
Has a windup time of 2 seconds

One Handed:

Point Cost: 10
Cost: 30 FP/s
Range: 4 meters
Arc: 80 degrees
Effects:
- Electrocutes targets with lightning
- Knocks down running targets
- Deals 25 damage per second that bypasses armor
- Staggers target continuously, and pushes them back

Two Handed:
Point Cost: 10
Cost: 20 FP/s
Range: 4 meters
Arc: 120 degrees
Effects:
- Electrocutes targets with lightning
- Knocks down running targets
- Deals 30 damage per second that bypasses armor
- Staggers target continuously, and pushes them back

* Force Choke
- Level 1 -
Requires 4 seconds of lock-on, choking can be stopped by Sith taking damage.

Point Cost: 8
Cost: 10 FP/s while locking on to target, 5 FP/s when choking
Range: Infinite
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Target is slowed 40%, and begins choking.
- After 8 seconds of continued choking the target dies. If released early, target regains its health back.
- Can be used with sense 3 to choke targets through walls.


- Level 2 -
Requires 3 seconds of lock-on, choking can be stopped by Sith taking damage.

Point Cost: 4
Cost: 10 FP/s while locking on to target, 5 FP/s when choking
Range: 10 meters
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Target is slowed 20% every second until being immobilized and forced to kneel.
- Target cannot fire while choking.
- After 7 seconds of continued choking the target dies. If released early, target regains its health back.


- Level 3 -
Requires 3 seconds of lock-on, choking can be stopped by Sith taking damage.

Point Cost: 6
Cost: 10 FP/s while locking on to target, 5 FP/s when choking
Range: 5 meters
Arc: Must be aimed
Effects:
- Target is lifted into the air while choking.
- Target cannot fire while choking.
- After 6 seconds of continued choking the target dies. If released early, target regains its health back.

- Sith can use lightning to electrocute target during the choking, which deals high damage and prevents Jedi from pushing/pulling out of it.
- Sith can use saber throw to impale target during the choking, which deals high damage.
- Sith can use force push to send the target flying into walls/knocked down for high damage.
- Sith can use force pull to disarm the target of any blasters/lightsabers.
- If the Sith has push 3/pull 3, he can press the use button while choking to crush the target's body, killing the target immediately, and draining the Sith of all force.
 
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Soooo... You want saberists to be able to block blasters indefinitely while also making force push uncounterable at close range. Am I getting this right?

How do you counter that as a gunner?
 

JohnFromSteam

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I like this... a lot.
For choke 3 at the end with push 3/pull 3 crush, I think it needs a windup of 1-2 seconds. Seems so dope though. The kata's should have a turn slowdown, otherwise it'll be cancer. Seems great though, and just like what Takuta said for push, you can fight it.
 
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Soooo... You want saberists to be able to block blasters indefinitely while also making force push uncounterable at close range. Am I getting this right?

How do you counter that as a gunner?
If shot whilst charging, it is canceled and the FP is lost.
literally just shoot the saberist lol

edit: though I still don't really know about the infinite blaster blocking thing, seems kinda dumb, like if there's 3 people spraying cr3 in a sith's face he shouldn't be able to just stand there and take it all, idea needs a bit of fleshing out
 
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I've found damage reduction to be vastly more important than any block radius. So many times a sith/jedi has survived my assault simply because of the reduction leaving them with 20 or lower health. That shit needs to be turned off. No one other than an SBD or a Wookiee should be able to tank multiple blaster shots, let alone a direct rocket hit.
 

Gargos

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There are some interesting ideas in this, but sadly way too drastic for such an old game. The jedi change would make the gameplay very different and considering how old the game and the community is I just dont see this ever happening. Drastic changes always need a crazy amount of tweaking and balancing out, and I do not think we have the manpower for that.
 
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So wait, if saberists can block all they want, how do you pressure them?

I'm sure if this was implemented, saberists would simply charge push behind corners, peek, push, and then either execute a downed opponent or just stand there, blocking and regening FP, in case of a failure.
 
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So wait, if saberists can block all they want, how do you pressure them?

I'm sure if this was implemented, saberists would simply charge push behind corners, peek, push, and then either execute a downed opponent or just stand there, blocking and regening FP, in case of a failure.
this is the main problem imo, the other ideas look nice but they're clearly designed with blasters not draining fp in mind
 
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So wait, if saberists can block all they want, how do you pressure them?

I'm sure if this was implemented, saberists would simply charge push behind corners, peek, push, and then either execute a downed opponent or just stand there, blocking and regening FP, in case of a failure.
1) The blocking radius is incredibly small, so with 2 gunners you can flank the Jedi.

2) Melee, the Jedi cannot swingblock anymore, remember?

3) The Jedi is vulnerable when attacking.

4) Tools like Flamethrower/Darts (Read manifesto, I add a lot of tools)

5) Baiting a force power from the Jedi then punishing.
 
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But that basically leads to a situation where unless the gunner has some kind of block bypass weapon, a 1v1 fight can last forever.

As an example, let's put up any gunner class agaisnt your new Jedi. The gunner did not purchase any block-bypassing weapons. 1v1 fight, no teammates involved (let's imagine they are the last men standing). This fight will be a complete standstill with neither of them attacking the other.

The gunner is completely incapable of hurting the saberist without putting himself in a dangerous position, so he just stands there, preserving ammo and waiting for the saberist to attack.
The saberist, knowing that he will most likely die in case of an unsuccessful swing/push/pull (because of increased weapon damage and no dmg reduction), is too scared to attack and just stands there as well, knowing that his saber defense is impenetrable.

That honestly doesn't seem like fun and exciting gameplay to me.
 
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But that basically leads to a situation where unless the gunner has some kind of block bypass weapon, a 1v1 fight can last forever.

As an example, let's put up any gunner class agaisnt your new Jedi. The gunner did not purchase any block-bypassing weapons. 1v1 fight, no teammates involved (let's imagine they are the last men standing). This fight will be a complete standstill with neither of them attacking the other.

The gunner is completely incapable of hurting the saberist without putting himself in a dangerous position, so he just stands there, preserving ammo and waiting for the saberist to attack.
The saberist, knowing that he will most likely die in case of an unsuccessful swing/push/pull (because of increased weapon damage and no dmg reduction), is too scared to attack and just stands there as well, knowing that his saber defense is impenetrable.

That honestly doesn't seem like fun and exciting gameplay to me.
That's like saying the scenario of a Jedi standing at one end of the hallway and a gunner standing on the other and not willing to engage each other will lead to a stalemate. That's nonsensical. The goal is to kill the enemy and do the objective, if people weren't willing to risk their one life in normal game modes, then nothing would happen in the current patch. The Jedi has to try and kill the gunner, period, and that makes him vulnerable. Suggesting that both players will sit there forever is just unrealistic. The potential for that already exists in the current patch.

Also, the gunner would absolutely have access to the most basic block-bypassing tool: Melee.
 
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in the current patch
But in the current patch even a pistol-wielding soldier can put pressure on a saberist. Even a pistol-wielding soldier can take initiative and force a saberist to react somehow.
the most basic block-bypassing tool: Melee
Trying to melee a saberist means going right up to his face, and that puts the gunner at the risk of being lightsabered to pieces.

I'm just saying putting all the initiative into the saberist's hands can lead to very boring and slow gameplay.
 
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This is something! Alot of greeaaat idea in here, And so much, couldn't say if all of them would work togethers (Balance wise). I hope devs will pick what they like/need and bring us something with your work here.

It's good!
 
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But in the current patch even a pistol-wielding soldier can put pressure on a saberist. Even a pistol-wielding soldier can take initiative and force a saberist to react somehow.

Trying to melee a saberist means going right up to his face, and that puts the gunner at the risk of being lightsabered to pieces.

I'm just saying putting all the initiative into the saberist's hands can lead to very boring and slow gameplay.
A pistol soldier cannot pressure a Jedi. The Jedi can simply run away/walk away. At range you cannot pressure a jedi at all in MB2, and that isn't an issue at all. Up close with my changes you would be able to have far more options than you would currently.
 

Hexodious

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I like a lot of this. I disagree on some force power stuff, but less stuns = 100 and I like the idea of mt getting bonus damage even if only vs sbd/deka.

Tbh even tho I advocated for more stance with cyan/purple I kind of wish I was yellow only with Red Dfa and Blue uppercut only, feels like it would be easier to balance (at least open mode and matches, not thinking of duels where variety is obviously better).

There are some interesting ideas in this, but sadly way too drastic for such an old game. The jedi change would make the gameplay very different and considering how old the game and the community is I just dont see this ever happening. Drastic changes always need a crazy amount of tweaking and balancing out, and I do not think we have the manpower for that.
Sounds like most of it is number tweaks rather than drastic mechanical changes.
 

noel

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why would yellow receive no perk, just make all the other styles even more op than they already are because you personally dislike yellow

good idea enat
 

noel

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I don't dislike yellow, I just view yellow as the basic 'jack of all trades master of none style'. That is why it only costs 2 points.
fair enough but i still think this seems a bit bland

having styles which are meant to do certain purposes such as how you put cyan to be an acrobatic style, blue a defensive style etc. is uninteresting to me and it almost inevitably makes it like 'blue beats yellow, yellow beats red' and i find that rather dull

i'd honestly rather they removed all the perks and really leveled out the styles (a good example of fairly level styles is the Ja+ mod - where yellow red and blue are all equally viable) - that way there's creative freedom to find a style you like the feel of and that you like visually without any backlash or negative consequences

there are already a number of posts suggesting changes which suit the above description more, and personally I think they're more interesting and allow saberists the creativity which many of us enjoy when it comes to creating your own 'signature' style
 
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