Alt. Frag Ideas/Changes

[Torlo50]

As we all know, the Alt. Frag ability is quite powerful. Too powerful, since their really isn't a way to react fast enough to avoid it, and it basically gives a gunner a free hit on a jedi/sith. Sure, long enough throw, and you can push it, but no good gunner will throw a frag at long range as the Alt. Fire. Right now, I wanted to see what the community might come up with. So, I'm making a list in the OP here that will be edited whenever someone adds an idea, regardless of my own personal bias. That being said, I am adding my own ideas to the list. Of course, keep in mind this is completely unofficial and to help give the Devs ideas, nothing here will be implemented straight or any such nonsense. Brainstorming session to include as many people as possible is all. (On that note, I may have noticed the Road-Map tab on Trello is in the conception phase, hence this brainstorm. More brains on the task might make it easier, or at least throw ideas and banter about.)

1. Alt. Frag does not explode on impact with objects. It instead detonates on the enemy. However, the big change is this: Make the grenade not explode but on a lengthy timer, and turn it into a sort of mine. Keep the grenade push-able. Jedi/Sith can push it at each other like a hockey puck. Make it so it forces a sideways roll or otherwise prevents quick-getup, to keep it useful.
2. Keep functionality the same, but have a 2-3 second timer. (Liniyka_xddd)
3. Make the Alt. Frag the concussion nade. Replace the concussion grenade with a stun grenade, like a flashbang or smoke grenade to make breaching easier. (Achilles)

On another note, I'm putting up a pole to see if people like these brainstorming sessions. Maybe one of your ideas will contribute to the Mod! Have a good day, whatever your time zone, and take care.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Making it explode only on contact with players was tried in beta, and it sucked. It made alt mode super unreliable and basically useless.

I think what can help a lot is increasing the priming time to like 2-3 seconds. That would stop altnade from being a "press-to-win" button in almost any close-range engagement, since it would require setup time to use.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Roll the functionality of concussion grenade into alt-frag, and replace concussion grenade with something else that is more useful for breaching defended areas, such as a stun grenade, or a smoke grenade.

 

[Torlo50]

OP changed to reflect new ideas. Personally, I want a breaching use of a grenade, whether a new one or something else. Sounds like a brilliant idea! Though, I liked impact grenades, but I want that to be the secondary function @Liniyka_xddd .Make it so that it can work as an impact knockdown grenade, but the main use is the mine that makes it so you can't quick-getup. Since it removes quick-getup, make the whole thing push-able. Might be funny to see a soldier throw it down at a friendly jedi's feet and have them score a hit pushing it into someone. Of course, it keeps the grenade balanced. This was what I came up with after playing the BETA. Just now putting it down in words.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

If you want a breaching nade, sonic got you covered

 

[Torlo50]

Too avoidable. Limited to one side. And so on.

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Too avoidable. Limited to one side. And so on.

It's actually extremely hard to avoid it unless you have a sith with push, since it has massive AoE and the blast goes through the walls.

 

[Torlo50]

When does a team not have a sith with push, at least when a server pop is at least mid tier? Also, completely ignores that fact only one team gets it. Last part is till an issue. Also, Droids are unaffected. SBD and Deka, though not many play as them, completely ignore the effects.

 

[Tylenol]

Open beta alt frag succed the assed, and the 1.5 removal of FP drain on alt Frag hit was silly as well (10fp isn't anything major and Jedi have jump get up and are way more unforgiving than ET or Hero)

The suggested 2-3 second timer is good but it would probably be clearer to players if you could only throw alt Frag if it was fully primed (and maybe extended the prime time to that)

PS. please buff Sonic Detonator by reducing movement speed, it's ridiculous that Sith can jump 50ft in the air after getting hit

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

When does a team not have a sith with push, at least when a server pop is at least mid tier? Also, completely ignores that fact only one team gets it. Last part is till an issue. Also, Droids are unaffected. SBD and Deka, though not many play as them, completely ignore the effects.

So what, do you want a grenade that cannot be pushed or something? Everything needs to have a counter bro. I don't want some bs unpushable flashbangs thrown at my face, and neither do you, I think. And guess what, only rebels get it because rebels attack on most maps.

 

[Torlo50]

So what, do you want a grenade that cannot be pushed or something? Everything needs to have a counter bro. I don't want some bs unpushable flashbangs thrown at my face, and neither do you, I think. And guess what, only rebels get it because rebels attack on most maps.

I'm not saying make it un-pushable, I'm saying that you saying this:

It's actually extremely hard to avoid it unless you have a sith with push, since it has massive AoE and the blast goes through the walls.

It completely point-less since it IS push-able, and you are going to have a sith on your team with push in most games. I'm saying that it is a bad breaching weapon, which you were trying to say that it is just a few posts ago.

If you want a breaching nade, sonic got you covered

An another note on Sonic Nades, they aren't good vs. Sith you will proceed to jump as high as they can and do crazy moves, making it much harder to hit, and they usually don't actually retreat as much as wait for affect to end and then kill you, since you just ran up to them.

Limited to one side

If your going to argue the point here, please address everything written. This, that being that only one team has any sort of breaching equipment (shitty as it is) is stupid.

Both teams need to have breaching equipment that can work effectively. A flashbang will just have Jedi/Sith block and/or strafe while you run up to attempt to hit them. Only thing it does is get you in the room in this case. Though gunners might accidentally kill their teammates trying to hit you when their screen goes white (this would NOT be a bad thing).

 

[jango40]

Am I the only one being actually fine with the nade as it is right now

 

[Damn Polak]

Replace the concussion grenade with a stun grenade, like a flashbang or smoke grenade to make breaching easier

bit the conc is already good enough as a flash&smoke

stop altnade from being a "press-to-win" button

nerfing sec nade timing would make it even more useless
any decent b17 vet has the reflexes to push a cooked nade even when thrown at point blank

Am I the only one being actually fine with the nade as it is right now

you're not alone.

 

[PuNk]

I think they are fine as they are too.

 

[Torlo50]

The issue that is mainly pointed out is that, versus a Saberist/Force-Whore, the current build makes sense @PuNk and @Damn Polak . However, insta knock-downing other gunners, especially those classes that can't roll or other wise quick-getup, is a death sentence that is completely overpowered. It can be used around corners from AoE knockdown and such. Then run up with e-11/p3 and kill defenseless target. There is no way to stop the knockdown. Now, if it didn't knock you down while crouched, it actually would balance that out a little.

Now, I'm not sure if there is an fp drain modifier on a crouched target, but if there isn't every sith/jedi could simply crouch it with no repercussions while blocking. If fp drains were higher on a crouched target, I simply haven't realized then, since no one does it for speed reasons. Though, since the crouch is instant, someone could crouch the nade, and run at target per normal, making them useless.

(TL;DR} In it's current form, alt. frag ability against other gunners is OP, and can allow insta wins, with no way to fight against it.

 

[Damn Polak]

doesn't finishing throwing animation and switching to gun take almost as long as a coinflip getup?

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

It completely point-less since it IS push-able, and you are going to have a sith on your team with push in most games. I'm saying that it is a bad breaching weapon, which you were trying to say that it is just a few posts ago.

How is it pointless? If it CAN be pushed, doesn't mean it WILL be pushed. Other grenades and rockets are also pushable, but that doesn't make them useless. Dealing with sith is a part of breaching, just like throwing nades and suppressing gunners.

An another note on Sonic Nades, they aren't good vs. Sith you will proceed to jump as high as they can and do crazy moves, making it much harder to hit, and they usually don't actually retreat as much as wait for affect to end and then kill you, since you just ran up to them.

Even so, it still forces them to abandon their position and run away. And if they decide to jump to the ceiling as you described, they will be left with no FP to defend themselves with upon landing.

If your going to argue the point here, please address everything written. This, that being that only one team has any sort of breaching equipment (shitty as it is) is stupid.

I already addressed it bro. It's because rebels attack on most maps, and imps defend. That's why rebs have sonics, and imps - fire nades.

 

[Tylenol]

(TL;DR} In it's current form, alt. frag ability against other gunners is OP, and can allow insta wins, with no way to fight against it.

Thing is, Frag Nades are also single use meaning you can't cheese through a whole round and if you miss your one chance at a good hit you're basically dead

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Alt Frag is simply cheesy. There is no human being alive that can push it on reaction within the optimal range, I assure you. It is a guaranteed kill on every non-quick getup class. There is no counterplay to it, aside from being outside of its range, which is impossible in choke points.

It's a gimmicky knockdown, and it could be something better. By rolling conc functionality into alt-frag, and replacing Conc with something different, we'll get the best of both worlds. Because at the moment, Alt-frag is just a better version of conc, and makes it almost irrelevant.


Also, Sonic is not that good, it is easy to avoid for the most part, and with 0 restriction to mobility, vision, or anything else, it is super easy to avoid damage while sonic'd. Also the AoE is so large that you are more likely to hit your team with it than the enemy. I've been sonic'd infront of 10 gunners and managed to survive perfectly fine, dodging like a spastic chimpanzee.

 

[Stassin]

Like Tylenol said altfrags are a 1-time use ability. We really can't nerf their core impact much without making them useless altogether. The best approach would be maybe a slight nerf, while more importantly making them require more skill to land. Turning them into concs does accomplish that but maybe there are other options, so that we don't need to touch concs which are in a good place. Random ideas: requiring a direct hit to score a knockdown, otherwise knockback. Or no knockdown but high damage on direct hit and moderate AOE damage.