1.4 Open Beta Dueling Feedback

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"In a perfect world, where everything is done right™, 1.4 saber system is great." I don't believe previous systems punished players for not doing something right as much as this one, which is why it was more fun. Basically, do it right or leave as you won't be able to have fun.

This system becomes work (but yeah, keep throwing around the word "skill" as if it justifies the reduction of fun) where you must be focused at all times. I prefered when I could just relax and let muscle memory do its thing, at least against players inferior to me.

Better than 1.3, worse than V1.
 
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{Δ} Achilles

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1.4 is a diamond covered in feces. Sure, if you polished it off and gave it a nice cut, it'll be beautiful. However from what Sev stated, I believe we're stuck with a diamond covered in feces. in which case I'd prefer the half-polished diamond of 1.3, over the unpolished diamond of 1.4

The styles in 1.4 are BORING. They're boring to use, boring to fight against. The styles in 1.3, are fun. That is the main issue *I* have with it.

There are plenty of other issues to address, that everyone has already addressed. Stating that 'Oh you guys prefer 1.3, a system everyone hated over the new and improved 1.4' doesn't make it better, and it doesn't make me like it more. Dueling is just not fun in 1.4 for me. Infact Sith/Jedi (unless I'm using lightning) just isn't fun in general in 1.4. I prefer using commander/elite in open over Sith/Jedi, because I feel like I'm being punished for picking it.
 
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Stassin

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1.4 is off the charts in terms of complexity and brain-usage requirement, which 1.3 was devoid of; on the other hand 1.4 is extremely casual player-unfriendly, while 1.3 was probably the easiest system to grasp in all of mb2's history.

Having both at the same time is a nice goal but also a dream that is just about impossible to attain.
 

{Δ} Achilles

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1.4 is off the charts in terms of complexity and brain-usage requirement, which 1.3 was devoid of; on the other hand 1.4 is extremely casual player-unfriendly, while 1.3 was probably the easiest system to grasp in all of mb2's history.

Having both at the same time is a nice goal but also a dream that is just about impossible to attain.

I completely disagree. I'm totally casual in 1.4 and stomping people. Why? Because pblocking for me is a natural reflex, and I no longer have to think about timing my counters during their combo, or mind games. I just have to pblock a few times, and then nudge spam them to death. 1.4 is unbelievably easy for me, and I find it boring. The only mind game is which side to spam your swings on in nudge, and when your opponent will spam slap to try and stop it.

I've actually begun to use Red more than cyan, just because it kills people in 10 seconds as opposed to 10 minutes.


In 1.3 if you were slapped by a red user, you were dead. If you were staggered by a staff user, you were dead. If you allowed a blue user to retain ACM, you were dead. If you let a purple user counter freely, you were dead. If you made a timing error against a dual saberist, you were dead. If you couldn't defeat the timing on a cyan user, you were dead. If you attacked first against a good yellow user, you were dead.

Here in 1.4, there is PLENTY of room for mistake and recovery, enormous room. I've had moments where I screwed up my offense so bad that I had 2 BP left, and I just turtled and came back for the victory.

I don't see how you people think 1.4 is 'pure skill' with so much room for error, and so little diversity in styles.



Here is the primary issue with styles acting virtually the same: Nudge. Half swings and combos, are all the same speed, across all styles. A red combo is the same speed as a cyan combo. In 1.3 the difficulty of fighting against blue with red, was always on that first swing. Which is precisely why against fast styles, you were counter centric. In 1.4, there is no such difficulty, as all the styles might as well be the same with the exception of perk, damage, and number of swings. You get close to them, boom, everything fights at the same speed, and it is up to the defender to pblock to get the instant counter (which is way too hard to time in nudge, I might add, which is where all offense takes place anyway), or spam slap, or he dies.

So as a Cyan user, against Red, you know he only has a 3 hit combo, so you do a 4 hit combo. Then, your ONLY worry, is slap, whereas the red user, your only strength is slap. So Nudge fights are literally just slap fights, who can swingblock slightly better than the opponent. THAT IS BORING.
 
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The reason it's classified more along the skill lines is because you still have to be able to do it. Room for error doesn't mean that you don't have to be skilled or know as many mechanics, it means that when someone gets an advantage, if the other player is skilled enough they can come back from it. This prevents a luck factor, which muchh of the 1.3 spam fest was. It was a luck match of who could get the first good combo going, and that was it.
 

{Δ} Achilles

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The reason it's classified more along the skill lines is because you still have to be able to do it. Room for error doesn't mean that you don't have to be skilled or know as many mechanics, it means that when someone gets an advantage, if the other player is skilled enough they can come back from it. This prevents a luck factor, which muchh of the 1.3 spam fest was. It was a luck match of who could get the first good combo going, and that was it.

And me getting a lucky pblock/slap to regenerate 1/3rd of my BP isn't a thing? You people seem to have more faith in my skill than I do. I can clearly see luck involved, and I can clearly see that this version requires less effort on my part than 1.3.

Before, in 1.3, to survive against a purple user (which was OP), you had to pblock 3 swings. Now you have to pblock 1. How is that less luck and more skill?
 
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People will have to switch up their attacks more, and pblocking won't just be to dampen the first swing. Defense definitely will be a tad easier but offense takes much more skill. And you're going to have to be offensive at some point
 
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Plus, stop talking about "your skill you didn't know you had". It doesn't prove any point and just makes you look like a douche
 

{Δ} Achilles

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People will have to switch up their attacks more, and pblocking won't just be to dampen the first swing. Defense definitely will be a tad easier but offense takes much more skill. And you're going to have to be offensive at some point

Plus, stop talking about "your skill you didn't know you had". It doesn't prove any point and just makes you look like a douche

Offense does not take much more skill. I know several players who have defenses that I could not crack in 1.3, that I can easily get around in 1.4 by spamming weird nudge combos, like WA WA WA SA

And my point being that I'm not that skillful, I'm not even trying in 1.4, and I win most of my fights, ones that I shouldn't win to be honest. Yet you keep reassuring me that 1.4 is *all* skill, so either I'm way stronger than I think I am, or 1.4 is not all skill. Which is more likely?


Infact, the only difficult matches I've had at all in 1.4, were against another cyan user who spammed weird nudge combos, and we would constantly go even, because it literally devolved into a slap/nudge/parry fest.
 

SeV

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Offense does not take much more skill. I know several players who have defenses that I could not crack in 1.3, that I can easily get around in 1.4 by spamming weird nudge combos, like WA WA WA SA

And my point being that I'm not that skillful, I'm not even trying in 1.4, and I win most of my fights, ones that I shouldn't win to be honest. Yet you keep reassuring me that 1.4 is *all* skill, so either I'm way stronger than I think I am, or 1.4 is not all skill. Which is more likely?


Infact, the only difficult matches I've had at all in 1.4, were against another cyan user who spammed weird nudge combos, and we would constantly go even, because it literally devolved into a slap/nudge/parry fest.

Kreia: "If you were to battle an old Sith Lord(European top Duelist) in a lightsabre duel, you would find that we're only children playing with toys. "

This is the general impression that I get from the American dueling scene according to Achilles comments. I don't know for sure ,but if someone like him can faceroll his way through enemies then his enemies must be barely able to hold a lightsaber, like Kreia says "Children with lightsabers"

The thing is that I know that there are skilled American duelists out there (I maintain hope), but what achilles says casts a shadow of doubt on the entire American dueling scene and shines them in a bad light, which is a shame since there have been really good American duelists in the past and I'm sure there still are.

First you say defense doesn't take much skill and now you're saying offense doesn't take much skill. I dunno from which moist and murky orifice you produce these statements, but it's probably the same one out of which you pulled the statement about 1.4 and feces. Your judgement in these matters seem to be obstructed by something. I wonder what it is ^^
 
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{Δ} Achilles

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Ah, more European ego. Adorable. I expected that, actually, 'You must be facing terrible players' comment. What I find amusing though is how you twisted a quote from KOTOR II like a 5 year old. Yes, clearly Kreia was talking about European no-lifes, and referring to American no-lifes as being inferior to European no-lifes.

Yes, there is a very skillful scene of American duelists, in 1.3. Seems that all of the skilled duelists in 1.4 have been nerfed, and replaced with facerollers like myself. 'Cept RaptorWindu, because we actually can't kill each other in the current 4 minute timer.

Neither takes much skill, but defense takes slightly more skill than offense, but has significantly more reward.


Tell you what, since the Euro-centrist crowd thinks they're so much better, I'll suffer the 200 ping and play on the Euro server for a while tomorrow, and see if there is a difference.


Edit: I enjoy how Sev backtracks his horrendously offensive post through the use of edit.
 
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{Δ} Achilles

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He only edited the end?

He only edited pretty much everything from the original post, 'cept the still-offensive quote. Not that I care, he pretty much called American duelists bad, and then tried to throw it on me as though I'm calling American duelists bad. So my original argument is 'Either 1.4 takes less skill than you think, or I'm way better than I think' and his entire rebuttal is to go 'Nah, you are just fighting shit players', then when he realized how fucking horrible that sounds, he edited to essentially say "Oh, so you're saying that you're fighting shit players?" Which is specifically against what I was originally saying.

Just for you Flooven, I hope you now understand the context behind why I responded to him like I did. I understand it may be difficult for you, but please keep with it. I don't respond like a 'douche' to people for no reason. Think of the reason why I'm being a douche to you, now.
 
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I'm getting notifications just like you, my friend. I read the original post. He didn't edit anything that I noticed. I wasn't offended before. I'm not offended now. Maybe if you're that offended it's time to check your self esteem. I'm an American duelist myself, never been to European servers and I would have the same thoughts in sevs position. If someone told me they were face rolling people on EU servers, my first thought would be "man maybe they aren't as good as I thought." His comment wasn't to bash American duelists as a whole, if anything he's pointing not fun at the fact that maybe you're just not facing that good of duelists, American or not. You took way too much offense to it.
 

{Δ} Achilles

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I'm getting notifications just like you, my friend. I read the original post. He didn't edit anything that I noticed. I wasn't offended before. I'm not offended now. Maybe if you're that offended it's time to check your self esteem. I'm an American duelist myself, never been to European servers and I would have the same thoughts in sevs position. If someone told me they were face rolling people on EU servers, my first thought would be "man maybe they aren't as good as I thought." His comment wasn't to bash American duelists as a whole, if anything he's pointing not fun at the fact that maybe you're just not facing that good of duelists, American or not. You took way too much offense to it.

It has nothing to do with my self esteem. It is the fact that he essentially called people that I look up to, that I think are amazing duelists, garbage, because I'm beating them in 1.4. Do you still not understand that? I'm saying 1.4 doesn't take much skill, and he is telling me that I'm just not fighting good players.

If that is your first assumption when hearing about issues with a new patch, of skilled players being beaten by not so skilled players, is to just say those skilled players must not be as skilled as you thought, then you're a dickhead.



Hey, that chess player who won 50 championships in a row can no longer beat that average chess player, now that the game is entirely pawns. He must not be as good as I thought he was.

Hey, that world class marksman lost a knife fight to that shitty marksman, he must not be as good as I thought he was.

Hey, that jet plane exploded on the runway when we filled it with explosives, it must not have been as good at flying as I thought it was.
 
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Hey, that chess player who won 50 championships in a row can no longer beat that average chess player, now that the game is entirely pawns. He must not be as good as I thought he was.
5 days. The beta is out for 5 days. You just left Basketball and went to soccer, they are 2 different things, do you expect a great Basketball player to beat all the average soccer players? You has to learn how to play that sport to be good on it.

V1.0 =/= v1.3 =/= v1.4

The dueling system keeps changing, you have to learn from it.

Oh, if 1.4 doesn't take much skill, how can a player win a duel not by luck? Are you trying to say that its all about dices? If you roll 20, you win, if you roll 19 you lose?

Roger that :(
 

{Δ} Achilles

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5 days. The beta is out for 5 days. You just left Basketball and went to soccer, they are 2 different things, do you expect a great Basketball player to beat all the average soccer players? You has to learn how to play that sport to be good on it.

V1.0 =/= v1.3 =/= v1.4

The dueling system keeps changing, you have to learn from it.

Oh, if 1.4 doesn't take much skill, how can a player win a duel not by luck? Are you trying to say that its all about dices? If you roll 20, you win, if you roll 19 you lose?

Not nearly as much skill involved in 1.4 as 1.3, that is my opinion, and to me it feels more as fact considering my performance in 1.4. However I'm completely open to 1.4, as long as it is willing to change significantly, which all my hope disappeared, because apparently we were left with what it is now. Which kind of makes me wonder what the beta is for if they're not going to do any serious work on it.
 
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Not nearly as much skill involved in 1.4 as 1.3, that is my opinion, and to me it feels more as fact considering my performance in 1.4. However I'm completely open to 1.4, as long as it is willing to change significantly, which all my hope disappeared, because apparently we were left with what it is now. Which kind of makes me wonder what the beta is for if they're not going to do any serious work on it.
So... Not very open to it then.
 

{Δ} Achilles

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In its current state, no. But it has potential, being my point. As it is now, I get bored extremely fast, and move on to playing gunner classes.
 
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