1.4 feedback thread?

[Sylar]

Seeing that it doesn't have one or if it exists i did not found it (in that case jokes on me) and the Status update 1.4 thread is a fuckfest of ppl raging at each other and posting suggestions/complaints in the wrong place I created this.

Let me start by saying that I did not get the point of unlocking directions for saber swings, it feels clunky, wrong and ugly (or I just need time adjusting idk).
Some may say it's an "easier" way for new players to learn how to combo or idk, was that hard to begin with? It became harder to know where the enemy will attack you I give you that but we already have the nudge which ppl are abusing as hell, facehug till nudge and then swing, hard to predict and even harder to pblock.

Now, I'm still adapting to the system, learning new ways to duel and stuff, but as it is of now, it takes way longer to kill another jedi/sith even the newb-ish ones, I may be doing it wrong (like I said i'm still learning) but that's my 2 cents.

I could say something about the flinch mechanic, it obviously made jedi/sith vs gunners more difficult and the high ROF weapons received an indirect buff with the introduction of this but I did not have played 1.4 long enough to have a concrete opinion about this.

I'm not a English native speaker so, sorry for any mistakes I might have done and I'm sorry if i sounded rude somehow, my English vocabulary isn't that big and I might have a poor choice of words as well.

TL;DR : unlocked directions for swings seems clunky, weird, wrong and if the intention was to make it harder to predict we already have nudge, not a native speaker blablalbla fuck off.


Peace.

 

[deprav]

Ho well, I usually welcome changes with a neutral stance and a positive attitude, but this is a real disappointment to me. Please note this is subjective and I only speak for myself and the way I (liked to) play the game

Some of the ideas were good, mainly the pblock cancelling combos and half-pblock, rebalancing the different stances etc... but unlocked hit-direction for combos goes against that progress, and the nudge on top of it makes the whole thing a total mess ; fights became unreadable and boring imo. It's clunky, it would give brain cancer to my friends working in 3D animation.

I think the main issue is nudge, I get it's a matter of balance vs good pblock so players who mastered it ain't impossible to kill, but making the attacks unreadable isn't proper gameplay mechanics, not at all ! I'd rather see the "counter pblock mechanics" develop with proper feints and timed hits rather than a spazzy face-hugging fest.

As for jedi/sith vs gunners, not sure what changed provoked this but : If you happen to face another saberist with a gunner behind, you get one-shot killed even with high force points, it feels pretty much impossible to survive as support saberist now, saberists are bound to hide in corners and ninja whoever passes by.

And to finish, yellow cost being now 8 ruined my build

EDIT : someone mentionned M&B (mount & blade) above, it is an exemple of proper melee combat : readable, relying on timings and distance etc... 1.3, even tho some stances were OP-ish, was pleasant to play and could have used a few tweaks ; 1.4 feels like a few steps in the wrong direction.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

ebin

anyway, for me the only problem with 1.4 is a bug with the crosshair moving to the direction of strafing (only in third person)
i dunno what triggers the bug, but it didn't occur on AOD server, only on {BG}
inb4 it's not connected to cg_thirdpersoncameradamp or cg_thirdpersontargetdamp (my values are 0.9, the bug occurs regardless of value)
here's the vid of the bug:

here's the vid w/o bug:

edit: lemme know if i should post it in bug tracker

You should fire your gun. The crosshair better matches the line of fire for the most part.
Also, I noticed it changes depending on weapon type/melee/etc.

For e-11 it compensates more than for pistols and just using fists hardly changes anything. Dual pistols also seem largely unaffected. Need to test out mandos flying/strafing at top speed though...
And the changes are largely only when you're strafe running. Walk strafing remains the same.

I think that it's just matching the lof for each weapon. The player model itself and how it related to the crosshair is the issue, a sort of optical illusion made from how it looked before to how it looks now.
I think once you get over the discombobulation you'll aim better for it as its looking to me to make my lof more accurate when relying on the crosshair and less on the instinctual lead from habit which I based from my player model which was largely locked in position to my crosshair. Now, I just have to ignore my player model a bit more when shooting.

I will say it does suck while manually dodging. But anything that takes a microcosm of more effort than the previous one is always annoying That's life.

Say it ain't so!

 

[Megatron (The Shredder)]

I noticed that some of the clone trooper skins no longer have the movie clone taunts and seem to only have the republic commando boss taunts. I haven't tested out all the skins/models but it would be nice to have some of the movie taunts for maps like Jedi Temple, which use to have them pre-patch.

 

[----Kas----]

I posted it in the other thread but I think it should be posted here aswell. Original thread V1.4 Update Released!


Good job! New update!
I came to terms with the fact that I didn't like new saber system and I never will. So I decided to stick to gunner as I used to in the past. But no, with the new aiming issues you can't even aim normally. I don't know if it is a bug or what. So no more jedi/sith for me on duel servers, no gunner in open mode, what am I supposed to play now? A spectator? That is why I decided to post this.

Don't instruct us, that we should adapt to the new system. Don't say that we can't judge it because: "Och it's a new system, and you played it for two days only, so you know nothing about it haha". In fact, if you played previous saber builds, read changelog and played beta, then you know how the new system works after an hour of playing, and you KNOW THAT YOU WON'T LIKE IT in the future no matter what. Don't post stupid gif's here, you didn't listen to the feedback on beta. You do whatever you like because you are the mighty devs and we, the community can't do anything about it. Posts like "adapt or leave" show that this saber system was made by and for a specific group of people within mb2 community. If saber systems used to be better in the past, V.1, V0, maybe earlier, then revert it to it's previous state, what's the problem? Aaaach you have to develop the game... so:

1. You changed classic spam to nugde spam. You would tell me: Block spam with pblock, it stops the combo, YAY! I say: Try to pblock duals, staff, good luck.
2. You would say: Use nudge to your advantage! I say: Why would I want to do a mindless spam that requires no more combo practice?
3. You would say: Play defensively! Use counters to your advantage! I say: Why? I don't want to be in defence all the time :| What's more, look at point 1.
4. You would say: If you don't like it you nub, then leave, noone will cry after one sad guy who don't like our ideas!. I say: 1+1+1+...= mb2 community, and I think it's not that numerous that you can afford to lose people now. Who will you play with? xD

I bet someone put some work in new saber system and I respect that, but really, if you know anything about product development, you know that sticking to only one idea, only because you already started working on it, and you feel you don't want to lose your effort is a simple way to failure. Without consulting it with the people who are your target, you can't create anything that will suit their demands. Or maybe you weren't trying at all??? Maybe you just do whatever you want and the fact that others will use your product is only a nice side effect?

To the people who say that saber combat is not that important: It is very important, it's the reason why big part of mb2 community plays this game, and not SW Battlefront for example.

When it comes to open mode changes, I like them. Except the fact that aiming is screwed up huh?

Again everything was explained in this thread 1.4 Open Beta Dueling Feedback . From that thread you can learn that first I was against changes, then I changed my mind and hoped that 1.4 would be a good change. Now I know I must have eaten something addle...

 

[Venk]

Ok I got 1.4 working after reinstalling... but now it keeps kicking me out of games telling me to play via the launcher and keep it running... even though I'm starting it via launcher...
ಠ_ಠ

 

[Sylar]

Sense 1 shows only white arrows on minimap with OJK, works just fine with JAMP.


Think I'm going to report this on bug section.

Edit: Someone already did

 

[Sylar]

I think the main issue is nudge, I get it's a matter of balance vs good pblock so players who mastered it ain't impossible to kill, but making the attacks unreadable isn't proper gameplay mechanics

My thoughts exactly, everyone just nudge abuse and thats it along side the unlocked directions it becomes a clusterfuck but I think I could deal with the unlocked saber directions if nudge were to be removed. If you want to make it harder for the enemy to pblock just facehug them and a start a swing, that's what ppl did in 1.3 anyways.

 

[Mechaelite]

Discharge combined with flinch means dekas are really, really hard for jedi to kill. It doesn't matter if you circle strafe if the deka just pushes you away and can turn fast enough to shoot you since you're no longer close. Just because clones/ARCs can render dekas nearly useless doesn't mean dekas should stomp everything else in the game. I'd much rather see deka be evenly balanced against everything and not have ion/pulse be a hard counter.

Also, I'm saying this aftering playing as deka, not against it. I felt like I was killing jedi with way too little effort when they deserved a kill. I know how to deal with dekas on the other side, it's not a knowledge issue. It's not that they're impossible to kill it's that they have a large advantage. Force speed and strafing can make short work of them at a large FP cost, even with discharge. Alternatively, if you don't want to try much as jedi, just switch class and make them entirely useless with an ion blob or two. That kind of rock-paper-scissors gameplay is bad IMO.

Deka Mainer here:

With or without flinch, if you come to a firepower 3 deka with at least 1 discharge left in his shield head on with a bloody lightstick. You're dead. If he's able to be shooting you at point blank in the first place you should not be trying to attack it, the whole point in Deka vs Jedi fights is to lure it to use discharge at the wrong moment and to force it to turn in circles to try and aim, the safest route is to simply circle him from far enough he doesn't use discharge until he runs out of ammo and is forced to go back to fire power 1 because slow reload rate, then move a bit closer without jumping to make him waste discharge and then saber the fuck out of the droid.

The point of the deka is to be a mobile gun platform that arrives in combat quickly sprays death in an arc of 45º and rolls out of combat just as quick, whenever flanked it's game over, be it by competent gunners or by competent jedi.

I will, though, agree that flinch gives slow dekas a bit of an edge if you don't react quickly as jedi, but if you strafe well enough as to confuse the deka and manage to get out of his 45º arc of death you should be able to not be affected by his shots even if he discharges (as long as you don't play dumb and jump next to him...) and still land a hit with the saber.

 

[kvinto]

My thoughts exactly, everyone just nudge abuse and thats it along side the unlocked directions it becomes a clusterfuck but I think I could deal with the unlocked saber directions if nudge were to be removed. If you want to make it harder for the enemy to pblock just facehug them and a start a swing, that's what ppl did in 1.3 anyways.

Removing nudge and unlocked combos while keeping pblock stopping combos would make red useless trash.

 

[Damn Polak]

You should fire your gun. The crosshair better matches the line of fire for the most part.
Also, I noticed it changes depending on weapon type/melee/etc.

For e-11 it compensates more than for pistols and just using fists hardly changes anything. Dual pistols also seem largely unaffected. Need to test out mandos flying/strafing at top speed though...
And the changes are largely only when you're strafe running. Walk strafing remains the same.

I think that it's just matching the lof for each weapon. The player model itself and how it related to the crosshair is the issue, a sort of optical illusion made from how it looked before to how it looks now.
I think once you get over the discombobulation you'll aim better for it as its looking to me to make my lof more accurate when relying on the crosshair and less on the instinctual lead from habit which I based from my player model which was largely locked in position to my crosshair. Now, I just have to ignore my player model a bit more when shooting.

I will say it does suck while manually dodging. But anything that takes a microcosm of more effort than the previous one is always annoying That's life.

Say it ain't so!

whatever, crosshair swaying should be optional, not serverside
/ignore chaos

 

[Sylar]

Removing nudge and unlocked combos while keeping pblock stopping combos would make red useless trash.

That's why I said to remove just the nudge, you can keep the unlocked directions, you still can make a stagger on the 3rd hit if you fake(press reload) the 1st one right?

I mean, if we really want to get rid of the nudge, sure we can think of something.

I'm not complaining or anything, i will not leave the game because people are abusing nudge, we had it worse (spam in 1.3) just an idea to tweak the system a bit more, so far i'm liking it... Just the nudge that gets on my nerves.

 

[deprav]

Removing nudge and unlocked combos while keeping pblock stopping combos would make red useless trash.

I don't quite agree : the easiest hit to pblock against red is the first one because of the relatively slow animation. Unlocking directions for the following hits doesn't make much of a difference since it's the first one who counts. What would be cool tho, is to unlock the directions only for half-swings. and allow half-swing after feint (I think it's the case in 1.4 ?).

There are quite a few ways to land that first red hit : closing in with short jump and unnatural hit direction, feints, fake missed hits chained with half-swing, counter-hit wise rotation to make your hit hard to read etc... there are plenty stuff to try that are way more interesting than nudging and spamming imo ^^

 

[kvinto]

I don't quite agree : the easiest hit to pblock against red is the first one because of the relatively slow animation. Unlocking directions for the following hits doesn't make much of a difference since it's the first one who counts. What would be cool tho, is to unlock the directions only for half-swings. and allow half-swing after feint (I think it's the case in 1.4 ?).

There are quite a few ways to land that first red hit : closing in with short jump and unnatural hit direction, feints, fake missed hits chained with half-swing, counter-hit wise rotation to make your hit hard to read etc... there are plenty stuff to try that are way more interesting than nudging and spamming imo ^^

You do realise that red without combo directions unlocked had the most predictable combos? Every good duelist in 1.3 could pblock most of red combos. Only 1 swing in combo was not 100% pblockable but the chance to pblock was 1/2 anyways beacuse of lack of options. For example combo starting with WA the next swing had to be D or SD after D you could choose between WA or SA. Red was just so easy to pblock. Red would just get rekt so hard in 1.4 like it wasn't nerfed enough. Good luck in red vs blue or cyan. You probably wont even be able to attack beacuse of combo interruption when hit. And with predictable directions?

 

[deprav]

You do realise that red without combo directions unlocked had the most predictable combos? Every good duelist in 1.3 could pblock most of red combos. Only 1 swing in combo was not 100% pblockable but the chance to pblock was 1/2 anyways beacuse of lack of options. For example combo starting with WA the next swing had to be D or SD after D you could choose between WA or SA. Red was just so easy to pblock. Red would just get rekt so hard in 1.4 like it wasn't nerfed enough. Good luck in red vs blue or cyan. You probably wont even be able to attack beacuse of combo interruption when hit. And with predictable directions?

Yes I do realize that ! ^^ That's what separated good red users from average ones, good ones are/were able to use skillful or smart tricks to land their red hits and disturb their opponent, average one would just get constantly pblocked. I agree that the combos were very limited tho, but there's quite a gap inbetween a few patterns, and an infinite amount of possible directions, and with nudge on top of that it's a total mess. Now anyone can facehug, nudge, and spam whatever directions, no need to learn them anymore etc...

For a melee system to be decent, it needs to be readable and have some predictability to it, or else it just becomes random and boring.

 

[kvinto]

Yes I do realize that ! ^^ That's what separated good red users from average ones, good ones are/were able to use skillful or smart tricks to land their red hits and disturb their opponent, average one would just get constantly pblocked. I agree that the combos were very limited tho, but there's quite a gap inbetween a few patterns, and an infinite amount of possible directions, and with nudge on top of that it's a total mess. Now anyone can facehug, nudge, and spam whatever directions, no need to learn them anymore etc...

For a melee system to be decent, it needs to be readable and have some predictability to it, or else it just becomes random and boring.

To spam nudge red users have to run or use mblock animation. So just hit them before they get nudge? If they get hit while running they lose even more bp. Just do your combo and they won't be able to respond beacuse of combo interrupt when hit. And about learning directions. You didn't have to do that. If you knew how red combos work you could do combo out of every swing. That's another thing that separated good red users from bad ones.


Stassin i see you read posts in this thread so can you answer my question about red jumps? Thanks.

 

[Stassin]

can you answer my question about red jumps? Thanks.

You don't have to hold reload to do red jumps, you can just tap it and immediately do a jump, it will work. What matters for the red jump to be triggered instead of a RDFA is that the combo be counted as ended, which is temporarily the case when using reload to prevent you from chaining combos as feints, as well as when you've reached the end of a combo (yes, you can do a red jump without using reload on the 3rd swing of a red combo, it will work perfectly). The reason why red jumps are no longer available the same way as pre-v1.4 is that it is a side-effect of the removal of chaining direction restrictions (i could have kept it, just not worth the effort since the current way of doing it allows for even better freedom, as you can choose whether to chain into a RDFA or not, which you couldn't do before).

 

[Rene]

It's probably the last time I'll try to post in thread like this so please hold me and be gentle~!

This time I won't give any feedback(it doesn't change much from beta test), but a proposal. Even two.
Mine biggest concerns about 1.4 are: perfect block that can cancel combo chain and nudge.

There is no doubt that nudge is cancerous and I haven't met anyone who thinks differently yet(except for those who are responsible for it). I also understand that without nudge Red stance will perish as it is. Previously I proposed to replace nudge with hilt spin so that Red(or any other stance) had a possibility to initiate. It worked well in previous patches even when pblock with red wasn't available. Yes, it will require more skill and control(protip: agent's playstyle). You can also buff the damage again if you feel that red will be castrated and weak after that. I really don't see any other reasons to hold on on nudge other than keeping red stance alive. Proof me wrong if you have one. It's better to sacrifice one stance's skill comfort than sacrifice whole duel system.

PB that can cancel combo hits is really interesting ability(especially it works coherently with non-directional hits) BUT must be reworked.
First of all why is it so important? It kills variety of disarm ability. If you pblock first hit you are unable to mblock the second one since combo chain is interrupted. And pb canceling can be easily abused(except for nudge hits which force everyone to facehug and crash the tanky opponent).
If you remember I suggested you to replace this pblocking ability with mblocking one so that it would make more sense. Stassin said that this will require more skill to perform and he is right. Since then I made a progress in this idea. How about we give mblocking stance the ability to cancel combos? There are plenty of duelists who like to play in mblock stance(SeV as I remember one of them) but it was senseless, why wouldn't we give them reason and reward to play like this? It will improve the balance a lot. Mblock stance is less mobile and in mblock stance you can't disarm. It will definitely require more skill and it can give to the system something interesting in return. What do you think?

 

[Preston]

It's probably the last time I'll try to post in thread like this so please hold me and be gentle~!

This time I won't give any feedback(it doesn't change much from beta test), but a proposal. Even two.
Mine biggest concerns about 1.4 are: perfect block that can cancel combo chain and nudge.

There is no doubt that nudge is cancerous and I haven't met anyone who thinks differently yet(except for those who are responsible for it). I also understand that without nudge Red stance will perish as it is. Previously I proposed to replace nudge with hilt spin so that Red(or any other stance) had a possibility to initiate. It worked well in previous patches even when pblock with red wasn't available. Yes, it will require more skill and control(protip: agent's playstyle). You can also buff the damage again if you feel that red will be castrated and weak after that. I really don't see any other reasons to hold on on nudge other than keeping red stance alive. Proof me wrong if you have one. It's better to sacrifice one stance's skill comfort than sacrifice whole duel system.

PB that can cancel combo hits is really interesting ability(especially it works coherently with non-directional hits) BUT must be reworked.
First of all why is it so important? It kills variety of disarm ability. If you pblock first hit you are unable to mblock the second one since combo chain is interrupted. And pb canceling can be easily abused(except for nudge hits).
If you remember I suggested you to replace this pblocking ability with mblocking one so that it would make more sense. Stassin said that this idea will require more skill to perform and he is right. Since then I made a progress in this idea. How about we give mblocking stance the ability to cancel combos? There are plenty of duelists who like to play in mblock stance(SeV as I remember one of them) but it was senseless, why wouldn't we give them reason and reward to play like this? It will improve the balance a lot. Mblock stance is less mobile and in mblock stance you can't disarm. It will definitely require more skill and it can give to the system something interesting in return. What do you think?

These simple changes would fix the saber system. This would make 1.4 probably my favorite build since V.0(I started on V.0)

 

[----Kas----]

It's probably the last time I'll try to post in thread like this so please hold me and be gentle~!

This time I won't give any feedback(it doesn't change much from beta test), but a proposal. Even two.
Mine biggest concerns about 1.4 are: perfect block that can cancel combo chain and nudge.

There is no doubt that nudge is cancerous and I haven't met anyone who thinks differently yet(except for those who are responsible for it). I also understand that without nudge Red stance will perish as it is. Previously I proposed to replace nudge with hilt spin so that Red(or any other stance) had a possibility to initiate. It worked well in previous patches even when pblock with red wasn't available. Yes, it will require more skill and control(protip: agent's playstyle). You can also buff the damage again if you feel that red will be castrated and weak after that. I really don't see any other reasons to hold on on nudge other than keeping red stance alive. Proof me wrong if you have one. It's better to sacrifice one stance's skill comfort than sacrifice whole duel system.

PB that can cancel combo hits is really interesting ability(especially it works coherently with non-directional hits) BUT must be reworked.
First of all why is it so important? It kills variety of disarm ability. If you pblock first hit you are unable to mblock the second one since combo chain is interrupted. And pb canceling can be easily abused(except for nudge hits which force everyone to facehug and crash the tanky opponent).
If you remember I suggested you to replace this pblocking ability with mblocking one so that it would make more sense. Stassin said that this will require more skill to perform and he is right. Since then I made a progress in this idea. How about we give mblocking stance the ability to cancel combos? There are plenty of duelists who like to play in mblock stance(SeV as I remember one of them) but it was senseless, why wouldn't we give them reason and reward to play like this? It will improve the balance a lot. Mblock stance is less mobile and in mblock stance you can't disarm. It will definitely require more skill and it can give to the system something interesting in return. What do you think?

Very good ideas, in my opinion.

 

[Sylar]

how about we give mblocking stance the ability to cancel combos?

I think this is pretty neat.

Don't stop posting, it's good to see other people's ideas, I think they probably didn't change anything from the beta feedback because there wasn't a lot of people testing the build, so they can't change things like this if only a minority complains about it, thats my 2 cents tho.

I myself didn't test the beta build cause only the official servers had it on and we don have official servers here in Brazil and "testing" things with 300 ping isn't a good idea, so they waited for the release and now they're listening to the community and hopefully taking notes, as a developer I'd have done that.

Have a little faith in the dev team .