1.4 feedback thread?

[Sylar]

Seeing that it doesn't have one or if it exists i did not found it (in that case jokes on me) and the Status update 1.4 thread is a fuckfest of ppl raging at each other and posting suggestions/complaints in the wrong place I created this.

Let me start by saying that I did not get the point of unlocking directions for saber swings, it feels clunky, wrong and ugly (or I just need time adjusting idk).
Some may say it's an "easier" way for new players to learn how to combo or idk, was that hard to begin with? It became harder to know where the enemy will attack you I give you that but we already have the nudge which ppl are abusing as hell, facehug till nudge and then swing, hard to predict and even harder to pblock.

Now, I'm still adapting to the system, learning new ways to duel and stuff, but as it is of now, it takes way longer to kill another jedi/sith even the newb-ish ones, I may be doing it wrong (like I said i'm still learning) but that's my 2 cents.

I could say something about the flinch mechanic, it obviously made jedi/sith vs gunners more difficult and the high ROF weapons received an indirect buff with the introduction of this but I did not have played 1.4 long enough to have a concrete opinion about this.

I'm not a English native speaker so, sorry for any mistakes I might have done and I'm sorry if i sounded rude somehow, my English vocabulary isn't that big and I might have a poor choice of words as well.

TL;DR : unlocked directions for swings seems clunky, weird, wrong and if the intention was to make it harder to predict we already have nudge, not a native speaker blablalbla fuck off.


Peace.

 

[Mechaelite]

Eh I'm kinda enjoying 1.4, granted I'm gunner over saberist but I find it easier to saber without the swing direction lock. I still don't know how nudge works or what it exactly is though.

And don't worry that much about the stagger, is really short lived, aside from that, as long as you know how to strafe constantly so the gunner has no idea where to aim you have a good chance to get the kill.

Aside from that I will just quote myself on the appropiate thread to state my opinion on this update:

I will say some changes are noticeable in the new 1.4 version after playing for a few hours, but they're not major game breaking ones.

I will admit I'm more a gunner than a saberist but I still saber from time to time.

I won't get into dueling or saber styles because it's not my field of expertise, but, in my experience with the new system on saber combat I find it easier to try to be competent at sabering, fighting is a bit more random, true, but it's also more new-player friendly whilst still giving competent saberists an edge if used propperly. I haven't got any "EZ" in any Saber Fight so far so that's that if it's worth anything. What I did notice though is that blue is used a lot more and seems to get an edge in any saber duel against other styles, maybe it should be revised, I don't know.

The reduced SBD Slap damage is ok. Never used slap to actively try to kill other players anyways, it's just a "Fuck you, get out of here and leave me alone" tactic when someone runs in too close to you with a saber and forgets they can crouch, else it's better to just keep shooting, add to it the fact that you can now cause a stagger on saberists by shooting and it's like if it wasn't nerfed at all.

Speaking of the stagger, I like it. I mean for what's worth it, it doesn't last long enough as to fully stop a jedi, but as long as you know how to aim your shots and they run in a straight line at you it's on your favour. I see many jedi and sith mainers complain about it but considering that sith and jedi in open had always been intended to be used as support classes it fairly puts them in their place whilst still giving them the instakill weapon we all know and love (or we all know and hate, that's entirely up to you) For once I don't have to switch to melee when out of grenades to have a chance against a jedi rush as ET or Soldier in the Imp side.

About Force Powers: Mainly unchanged, but at last lightning is useful against saberists.

As for the wookiee Fury skill nerf:
Thank you devs. Really thank you. I main Imps over Rebels and it was always a hell to find a wookiee raging, you shoot it? You make it worse. He kills someone? Its been made worse, you do nothing? You're dead. Now you can at least keep shooting at it and the consequences won't be as bad.

And for the 20% Damage reduction on all guns vs saberists:
Yeah cool, good thinking to add it after removing the style perks, makes sense. Stagger helps gunners out enough as to keep shooting at saberists if they don't play smart so I understand that this addition was needed to give new saberists a chance.

So, thank you devs for 1.4, ARCs are still a pain in the ass for anything other than SBDs or Dekas if they use Dex 3 but at last Imp side gunners got an edge in open combat against saber-weilding oponents it so much needed by the implementation of stagger (so did rebel gunners if you don't main clone/hero to whom this change is kinda meh given their class powers such as dash and blobs already help you avoid being sabered down) I personally am having fun with 1.4 more than what fun I had in 1.3 c:

 

[Preston]

Overall, sabering feels really clunky. And looks even more so. Remove nudge, that would be a good start. And then go on from there imo. Too many drastic sabering cyanges happend at once in this build. Flinch is meh atm. It's cool and all. But I think it gives a bigger edge for gunners over saberists. They would of been balanced perfectly imo if the devs just removed open perks (like they did). And if the kept the crouch and you go half the distance from push and pull (Like they did)

 

[M@crobyte]

Personally I like the new idea of flinch. Instead of the jedi/sith being guaranteed a kill, its definitely evened the playing field. Good jedi/sith will still get kills, but smart gunners wont die just because they got rushed. Personally, I would of left the sabering as it was last build, but added the ability to have perfect block stop combos. This stops unnecessary spamming. Nudge seems like a cop out when you have people just run up to you trying to activate nudge for a half-swing. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't make much sense as a actual combat mechanic.

 

[Damn Polak]

sorry for any mistakes I might have done and I'm sorry if i sounded rude somehow
(...)
not a native speaker blablalbla fuck off.

ebin

anyway, for me the only problem with 1.4 is a bug with the crosshair moving to the direction of strafing (only in third person)
i dunno what triggers the bug, but it didn't occur on AOD server, only on {BG}
inb4 it's not connected to cg_thirdpersoncameradamp or cg_thirdpersontargetdamp (my values are 0.9, the bug occurs regardless of value)
here's the vid of the bug:

here's the vid w/o bug:

edit: lemme know if i should post it in bug tracker

 

[Sylar]

crosshair moving to the direction of strafing

Saw other ppl complaining about this, it seems to be server related then?

Gonna check If i have this problem as well.

 

[Damn Polak]

it seems to be server related

it's possible
i mean, it occurs every time on BG as i play it a lot, and i checked out the AOD only once (because it was empty and i joined it to record the bug)

 

[MoonmanMoonman]

Just as Preston said, sabering feels reaaaally clunky. In 1.3, whenever my combos landed and my enemy didn't pblock them it really felt like a hit. Now, thanks to nudge(most probably) it really feels like i'm smacking a wall with a lightstick, without the feeling of getting ANY hits in. Nudge also makes the fight a total clusterfuck, as much as everyone hated 1.3 i loved it simply because it kind of rewarded your reflexes, if you're fast enough to pblock you don't get bp damage and with purple you get the upper hand et cetera, it was kind of M&B combat but better and harder. Now it's a total clusterfuck of 2 people exchanging swings for god knows how long. I like the changes, but i hate nudge.
Also Flinch might have buffed imps in a way, now SBDs and dekas are even harder to fight off as jedi
inb4 you're the support class, you're not supposed to fight them
Then who is supposed to? Gunners who will get riddled the moment they come out of cover?

 

[M@crobyte]

ebin

anyway, for me the only problem with 1.4 is a bug with the crosshair moving to the direction of strafing (only in third person)
i dunno what triggers the bug, but it didn't occur on AOD server, only on {BG}
inb4 it's not connected to cg_thirdpersoncameradamp or cg_thirdpersontargetdamp (my values are 0.9, the bug occurs regardless of value)
here's the vid of the bug:

here's the vid w/o bug:

edit: lemme know if i should post it in bug tracker

From what I can see, it's on both videos. It just appears to be less obvious on the second one.

 

[Damn Polak]

From what I can see, it's on both videos. It just appears to be less obvious on the second one.

hold the mouse cursor over the crosshair and notice that in firs vid it sways a lot in the direction of strafe, and on the second one just a bit in the opposite direction

 

[Lessen]

Yeah since the shifts are in opposite directions in each video, it's not even really a matter of the crosshair not sitting still when it's supposed to. It's sort of actually doing the opposite of what it's supposed to.

(Supposing the rest of the camera behavior is the same.)

 

[StarWarsGeek]

Really liking how flinch is working, but I think dekas probably shouldn't cause flinch. Alternatively, the FP drain from deka could be lowered a bit now that they can use flinch to protect themselves at close range. The FP drain from dekas is already pretty insane even at long range (isn't deka's FP drain actually the same inside and outside IDR?).

 

[Lessen]

How does flinch help dekas at close range if you can still circle strafe around their low turning speed? I don't think it makes much sense for one of the heaviest weapons in the game to not cause flinch, and I think odds are good that any given plan that includes the step "tank a hit from one of the heaviest weapons in the game" could use some improvement.

I don't have definitive answers on deka theory but I would say that the answer to them is probably not usually challenging their firepower head on. They seem extremely vulnerable to the anti-droid tools that clones/ARCs have, so it doesn't seem like a problem in the grand scheme of things that they can put a ton of pressure on Jedi at any range...

On that note, maybe we need a "Tactics" thread or forum where instead of people saying "This is hard to deal with, maybe it should be changed," people say "I don't know how to deal with this, any ideas?"

It seems better to start with that second question anyway, and then move to the first question if the second question remains unanswerable after serious effort.

 

[StarWarsGeek]

Discharge combined with flinch means dekas are really, really hard for jedi to kill. It doesn't matter if you circle strafe if the deka just pushes you away and can turn fast enough to shoot you since you're no longer close. Just because clones/ARCs can render dekas nearly useless doesn't mean dekas should stomp everything else in the game. I'd much rather see deka be evenly balanced against everything and not have ion/pulse be a hard counter.

Also, I'm saying this aftering playing as deka, not against it. I felt like I was killing jedi with way too little effort when they deserved a kill. I know how to deal with dekas on the other side, it's not a knowledge issue. It's not that they're impossible to kill it's that they have a large advantage. Force speed and strafing can make short work of them at a large FP cost, even with discharge. Alternatively, if you don't want to try much as jedi, just switch class and make them entirely useless with an ion blob or two. That kind of rock-paper-scissors gameplay is bad IMO.

 

[Lessen]

Just because clones/ARCs can render dekas nearly useless doesn't mean dekas should stomp everything else in the game. [...] That kind of rock-paper-scissors gameplay is bad IMO.

Eh. I just... disagree. Open isn't a dueling mode. Classes aren't balanced to be evenly matched with every other class. The classes are balanced in context of the existence of every other class that is available to either team. Dekas seem kind of like TF2 sentries, in that they can single-handedly stall a team and destroy anyone in a head-to-head, but they also have a few extremely hard counters.

I believe the game is balanced based on cooperation between classes, rather than based on "you can play whatever class you want, and a one-on-one will always be an even fight". That kind of game has its place too, but I don't think MB2 is it. Dekas might factor out to being "overpowered" with the way people play in public Open servers, but I'm opposed to the game being rebalanced to favor unconditional empowerment over teamwork or tactics. Rock-paper-scissors is bad for dueling games but here you have a team.

And it's not like Dekas are even invalidated outright by the existence of clones on the other team. Sith can push ion nades/blobs back and step in to deflect blaster shots as-needed. The situation can get more complicated from there. Instead of focusing on duels between classes, we could talk about larger team strategies. But there's just not a lot of team strategy happening in-game, so there's not a lot of data.

but that's just, like, my opinion.

edit: also, random thought, it seems like Mando/ARC are the "There's always a chance" class, the class that actually has a decent, if not fantastic, answer for every situation. Short range, long range, gunners, sith/jedi, droids, groups, the "commando" class always has something plausible to try. Every other class seems to have larger strengths and larger vulnerabilities

 

[Preston]

Eh. I just... disagree. Open isn't a dueling mode. Classes aren't balanced to be evenly matched with every other class. The classes are balanced in context of the existence of every other class that is available to either team. Dekas seem kind of like TF2 sentries, in that they can single-handedly stall a team and destroy anyone in a head-to-head, but they also have a few extremely hard counters.

I believe the game is balanced based on cooperation between classes, rather than based on "you can play whatever class you want, and a one-on-one will always be an even fight". That kind of game has its place too, but I don't think MB2 is it. Dekas might factor out to being "overpowered" with the way people play in public Open servers, but I'm opposed to the game being rebalanced to favor unconditional empowerment over teamwork or tactics. Rock-paper-scissors is bad for dueling games but here you have a team.

And it's not like Dekas are even invalidated outright by the existence of clones on the other team. Sith can push ion nades/blobs back and step in to deflect blaster shots as-needed. The situation can get more complicated from there. Instead of focusing on duels between classes, we could talk about larger team strategies. But there's just not a lot of team strategy happening in-game, so there's not a lot of data.

but that's just, like, my opinion.

edit: also, random thought, it seems like Mando/ARC are the "There's always a chance" class, the class that actually has a decent, if not fantastic, answer for every situation. Short range, long range, gunners, sith/jedi, droids, groups, the "commando" class always has something plausible to try. Every other class seems to have larger strengths and larger vulnerabilities

Im pretty sure they are supposed to be balanced with all the other classes. Also am I the only one that thinks it would better if only primary fire would cause flinch

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Im pretty sure they are supposed to be balanced with all the other classes. Also am I the only one that thinks it would better if only primary fire would cause flinch

How would that work in the cases of say a charged shot secondary? I'm assuming you'd want it primary only because they are usually more "powerful" shots.

 

[Lessen]

Im pretty sure they are supposed to be balanced with all the other classes.

Classes appear to be balanced with all other classes at the same time, rather than with all other classes individually.

Which is to say, the game does not seem to be unbalanced on a team scale. There does not appear to be a single class with which you can build a perfect team. And that matters a lot more than making sure that any one class always has an even chance against any other class in any situation.

 

[Preston]

How would that work in the cases of say a charged shot secondary? I'm assuming you'd want it primary only because they are usually more "powerful" shots.

Yeah, excluding pistols, my bad Didnt mention that

 

[kvinto]

Just as Preston said, sabering feels reaaaally clunky. In 1.3, whenever my combos landed and my enemy didn't pblock them it really felt like a hit. Now, thanks to nudge(most probably) it really feels like i'm smacking a wall with a lightstick, without the feeling of getting ANY hits in. Nudge also makes the fight a total clusterfuck, as much as everyone hated 1.3 i loved it simply because it kind of rewarded your reflexes, if you're fast enough to pblock you don't get bp damage and with purple you get the upper hand et cetera, it was kind of M&B combat but better and harder. Now it's a total clusterfuck of 2 people exchanging swings for god knows how long. I like the changes, but i hate nudge.

It does feel like that when 2 people fight and have no idea what's going on. I had a few duels with Tarkin today and i must say it made me look a bit different at 1.4.
Yellow perk feels a bit op. It's hard to kill someone when he can pblock, counter and that's 2 acm gone.
But can someone explain why do we have to hold reload to do the red jump?