Wookiee and Super Battle Droid nerf is needed.

[yoinkboink]

Now, I haven't been playing this game as long as anyone that will comment on this and tell me that I'm wrong, but I've played long enough to know that right now, I'm saying what we've all been saying and thinking; why hasn't this happened yet? Wookiee and SBD are both overpowered classes, and it seems like the entire community knows it. Not once have I ever been playing MBII and seen people disagree, and say that they're balanced.
For the sake of me not wanting to sound like an idiot with incorrect facts and no research, can anyone tell me why these classes are not overpowered or can anyone please add reasons why they are?

 

[Fletcher Time]

May want to fix your poll, answers and follow ups don't make sense.

 

[yoinkboink]

May want to fix your poll, answers and follow ups don't make sense.

Good idea

 

[Templar]

Suggestion - An option to select one rather than both, so as to see a wider variety of opinions.

 

[yoinkboink]

Suggestion - An option to select one rather than both, so as to see a wider variety of opinions.

Smart. I wasn't thinking very much when I made this, was I?

 

[StarWarsGeek]

I don't see how wooks can be considered overpowered, especially when compared to SBDs. It can feel a little unfair when a raging wook run into a small room that you're in and kills you in 2 or 3 punches, but that's generally due to poor teamwork and positioning. Wooks are easily brought down with proj/ruptor or a sith with red stance. A rushing melee wook can be taken down very quickly in most situations with some coordinated volume of fire. A bowcaster wook is more of a threat, but is also very slow and vulnerable to snipers. Bowcaster wooks are very strong against sith, but that's intentional. They're supposed to be a soft counter.

SBDs on the other hand are probably a tad overpowered. I'd rather face a full team of wooks than a full team of SBDs any day. They have less HP than wooks, but their special armors are far more valuable and they also cannot be headshot. Their special armor choices allow them to adapt to the enemy team composition extremely well. Unlike dekas, ion/pulses are a much less effective counter against SBDs. A deka completely loses its shield for the stun duration and any concentrated fire just melts its HP like butter (and if it tries to roll its nearly guaranteed dead due to the slowdown). An SBD can still take cover after being ioned/pulsed. I'm not exactly sure how the damage works with SBD armor and ion/pulse, but it seems like it can still take quite a few hits while stunned. The biggest issue with SBDs is that they can put out massive firepower while still being the tankiest class in the game.

TL;DR: Wook definitely does not need nerf. SBD could use a small nerf.

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

There are 4 problems with Wookiee:

1) Bowcaster does waaaaay too much FP damage.

2) Charge does too much damage, and is too safe, with the ENTIRE animation capable of knocking down from start to finish. It is too good of a chase and escape mechanic as well. A good Wookiee can safely kill a Sith using pass-by charges that the Sith cannot swing at.

3) Wookiee slap has too short of recovery, and too long of active time. The Sith barely has any time to actually get close to a skilled Wookiee.

4) Fury is broken against gunners. It is absolutely broken. If you're playing Commander, or perhaps BH, and a Wookiee was hiding around a corner, THAT is bad enough. However, if they then have fury, there is no amount of skill or tactics that could possibly save your life at that point, and that is horrible balance.


The issue with Wookiees is that they are a complete draw with Sith. A Sith cannot kill a good Wookiee without endangering himself, and a Wookiee cannot kill a good Sith without endangering himself. This makes for infuriating kite games that last forever and don't accomplish anything. Otherwise Wookiee is fine, minus fury vs gunners. (Teamwork isn't a fucking solution to bad balance, by the way).

__________________________________________________________________

Cortosis/Magnetic plating, gotta go. Battery mechanic? Gotta go. I'd rather SBD be a relatively tanky weapons platform, and not a solid chunk of iron that can kill you.

I've always stood by reworking SBD to be like an SBD from Republic Commando. Give it a wrist rocket, a charging blast, a fast firing wrist laser, a burst shot, and a tri-shot. Make it tanky (But it shouldn't survive a red swing.)

With flinch in the game, there is no need for SBD or any class for that matter to be as tanky as SBD.

 

[S o l d i e r]

I think you should also add the choices "Yes, but SBD is more overpowered" and "Yes, but Wookie is more overpowered" to the poll. My vote would be "Yes, but SBD is more overpowered". I already proposed a possible solution for SBD here: Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3.

 

[k4far]

(...)SBD could use a small nerf.

In SBD's case you can just pick it randomly to fix your score if it gets bad by playing any other class.
Strategy for SBD is to keep shooting at corners at height of neck and pretty much it. Jedi will start running after 3 seconds of firing at him and that will seal his fate. As for the Wookie, to me Bowcaster feels like E-11... maybe I am using it wrong, but it feels like not much I am sticking to pistol most of the time and go full melee. Wook has to stay intimidating so Siths won't go rushing at gunners like mad.
Wook dies from one swing, SBD...

I would focus on containing that droid a bit.

 

[Jediknight Fou]

I don't see how wooks can be considered overpowered, especially when compared to SBDs.
TL;DR: Wook definitely does not need nerf. SBD could use a small nerf.

A wookie with bowcaster...
Even two melee wookies can cause massive trouble, and positioning doesnt matter then, hell even one is dangerous.
I guess if Rebs would spam only wooks, imps could quit, there is no real counter to it.

With flinch in the game, there is no need for SBD or any class for that matter to be as tanky as SBD.

Flinch shouldnt be there anyway, shitty cheat feature.
I avoided wookies with bowcaster and sbd even before 1.4.
If i see how fast a raging wookie can destroy a small army of gunners...

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Flinch is fine, if you rework it to take more skill on both sides. I had loads of ideas on it that some devs agreed with... but then never did anything about it.

 

[yoinkboink]

I think you should also add the choices "Yes, but SBD is more overpowered" and "Yes, but Wookie is more overpowered" to the poll. My vote would be "Yes, but SBD is more overpowered". I already proposed a possible solution for SBD here: Gameplay Direction Post 1.4.3.

Good idea

 

[LanceOfLonginus]

SBDs have the benefit of being on the defending team on almost every map actively played. All things considered this is a pretty big boon for the class, and imp team in general as defender's advantage is very real. I don't think this can be changed because imps are inherently designed to be a defensive team with SBDs and Dekas.

SBDs weakness is there inherent slowness, and general lack of mobility. This is mitigated by the above mentioned defensive nature of the imperial team. Properly played SBDs lock down locations from defensible positions (of which they most of the time have the opportunity to get to before rebels even arrive)

They are incredibly difficult to solo as any class on the rebel team when played properly. I feel this shows an inherent imbalance in the class.

Going a dedicated class to counter them and blowing 50 points on pulse grenades (which are both expensive and only available to one character) is a poor manner of balancing.

I'd suggest either a complete rework as has been mentioned by devs, or the availability of pulse grenades to more classes.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Wookiees are somewhat strong with Fury. I've been thinking about it a lot lately. I think Fury would become a bit more skill-oriented with a few changes.

• Allow wooks to move during the roar phase to make it more accessible
• Slow down movement speed in Fury if the wook gets shot
• If there are currently damage bonuses applied with Fury, they're best removed, only attack speed should be affected.

Fury would essentially turn into a speedboost that allows a wookiee to become a major distraction if played by an evasive player, but a good player will be able to slow the wookiee down and prevent them from reaching anything before dealing too much damage. Liberating movement for the roar period would make going into Fury more dramatic and allow wooks to enter rage mid-fight with less repercussions. The ideal here is that we move away from it being too strong in certain situations while making it a bit stronger in situations where it didn't have any place before.

Bowcasters to me feel like they ought to be strong. I'd perhaps look into the rate of fire as opposed to changing the actual damage output per shot. This way the DPS is reduced, but the impact of getting hit by a bowcaster maintains its power fantasy.

SBD feels like it's in an okay place, but it definitely thrives in many MB2 maps due to them mainly being long corridors.

 

[LanceOfLonginus]

Wookiees suffer from having no damage mitigation and increased size of all their hitboxes. They're slow to boot. This is only ever altered when they rage, or are in melee where they can still be kited by running away, jumping and firing over your shoulder before continuing to bob and weave while running. This tactic works on all but soldiers and mandos, and mandos can fly.

Fury's very strong, there's no two ways around it, it does however require you to be in melee, so any distance or height gradient allows you to completely nullify a wookiee's rage. It's also blatant in both it's animation start up time (Big hitbox for head means a lot of dmg if you do it in the open) and even if you do it behind cover you're still doing your patent rage scream until it goes off so everyone with an ear has the knowledge of what you're doing. That coupled with it's inherent build up timer makes it an all around passable ability with both counterplay and inherent weaknesses/strengths

I wouldn't touch wookiee, but if it's absolutely on the table just slightly tweaking down the rage #s in damage reduction would do the trick.

 

[yoinkboink]

Wookiees suffer from having no damage mitigation and increased size of all their hitboxes. They're slow to boot. This is only ever altered when they rage, or are in melee where they can still be kited by running away, jumping and firing over your shoulder before continuing to bob and weave while running. This tactic works on all but soldiers and mandos, and mandos can fly.

Fury's very strong, there's no two ways around it, it does however require you to be in melee, so any distance or height gradient allows you to completely nullify a wookiee's rage. It's also blatant in both it's animation start up time (Big hitbox for head means a lot of dmg if you do it in the open) and even if you do it behind cover you're still doing your patent rage scream until it goes off so everyone with an ear has the knowledge of what you're doing. That coupled with it's inherent build up timer makes it an all around passable ability with both counterplay and inherent weaknesses/strengths

I wouldn't touch wookiee, but if it's absolutely on the table just slightly tweaking down the rage #s in damage reduction would do the trick.

It's exactly like you said about SBD's, though. Wookiees are incredibly hard to solo as any class excluding Jedi/Sith. (in my experiences at least. The Wook usually has enough health to just rage and wreck a full hallway of gunners)

 

[LanceOfLonginus]

They're not that difficult to solo, I'll provide a bit more regarding their lunking big hitbox dilemma.

HP does not grant any sort of damage reduction like armor does, so it makes the math easier too. If I recall from eons past the math goes something likes this:
Extremities shots (Arms, legs) are multipled by 0.6
Body shots are multipled by 1.9-2.1
and headshots are multipled by 3.9

Roughly, these were old numbers so it could totally have changed, there's also a 5% randomizer tossed in there t o give some variance in damages.

So an unmodded pistol does 26 damage, hitting a wookiee in the head with that does 1/4th of his HP, 4-5 pistol shots on a large hitbox without any upgrades which ever class has downs a wookiee.
A pistol 3 can do the job in 3 shots with the math 40 x 3.9 = 156x3

An E11 the much more standarized weapon can put down a wookiee in
9 bodyshots 400 / 45.6 (24 x 1.9)
5 headshots 400 / 93.6 (24 x 3.9)

a projectile rifle deals 150 dmg
so it can outright 1 shot a wookiee with a headshot, and 2 shot to the body.
headshot dmg 585 (150 x 3.9)
bodyshot dmg 285 (150 x 1.9)

I would do all the weapons but they're in the library and the math is outlined in the first paragraph, so it's easy to put it all together.

In the end i'm just saying that wookiees are not as tanky as they appear, they've got a huge health pool but swiss cheese for armor to any sustained blaster fire, or well placed shots.

 

[k4far]

It's exactly like you said about SBD's, though. Wookiees are incredibly hard to solo as any class excluding Jedi/Sith. (in my experiences at least. The Wook usually has enough health to just rage and wreck a full hallway of gunners)

From my experience as a wook I get hs 3 - 4 times and die (not so hard where I am playing lol).

 

[DaloLorn]

I believe the current headshot multiplier is 3.0, actually. Chest shots are probably 1.4-1.6 - but don't quote me on that one.

 

[Chorb]

I hate sounding like a broken record, but i felt like SBDs and wookies were both fine in 1.3.

From saberist side, there was a nonsence nerf to red from 400 to 350 dmg, which means when you can no longer 3 hit combo a SBD, even when caught off guard. It was an awsome counter to those classes. Same whit raging wookies, it is no longer a oneshot for whatever reason during rage. Now in 1.3, it was an unfavorable fight vs a SBD or wookie, but it was a fight you coudl win. In 1.4, you can literally run away and bring more teammates, or die to anyone who ever touched a keyboard and mouse once in their life. You can forget about ever engaging whit a flinching SBD, that takes 5+ heavy saber swings to bring down. Not to even mention light styles.