Why do Heroes get everything a Sniper should not have?

[TwiceDead]

Dash, Dodge and Heal.

I'm not going to make any secret that I thoroughly despise all three and I am heavily biased against them, not as mechanics in and of themselves, but as a package. With all 3 they gain the staying power an assault class should have who's in a constant fire-fight, it seems weird to give it to someone who mostly hangs in the back(Granted, CQC snipes is a very tangible thing in this game).

It seems weird for SNIPERS to get all three of these abilities as all of them encourage and help you keeping your distance and ensure that you thrive there.
Against small blaster-fire, it's no big problem as you can duck behind cover and completely recover, making reckless exposure of yourself as you attempt to snipe targets less punishable. Against snipers, only headshots on you matter, making counter-snipes and sniper-duels lopsided. Should enemies close up on you, you still have the tools to avoid attacks and retreat to a safer position, and even if you don't retreat, you have more mobility than most to last a fight.

If Snipers only had a Sniper and a shitty pistol on their side limiting their effectiveness to long-range, then I could easily understand why they have the tools necessary to increase the gap between them and their foes with ease and ensure they can thrive there. Currently as things are, they have the almighty Pistol 3, which is downright godly compared to a Blaster Rifle, so they hardly fare any worse in a CQC engagement.

It'd make more sense in my mind that snipers get tools to cover their flanks, mines, traps, the sort of things to encourage enemies to keep their distance or approach with caution, but maybe that's not feasible for this games fast-paced gameplay.

Now I am not going to claim that BH's are any worse off (although against Heroes, they kind of are), as they have poison, tracking and TD's on their side. Not to mention the Disruptor. IMO Poison Darts shouldn't be hit-scan, but that's a discussion for another time.

 

[Puppytine]

Besides that, classes are already locked in their own specialization. Mando's get the choice between Westars and their EE-3, same with Arc Troopers with their Rifle or Clone-Pistols. Only rarely do you see either run both, and when they do they most likely don't have the scope function. Soldiers, Clones, SBD's and Jedi are close combat skirmishers, same with Empire ET's with the exception of Rebel ET's Wingun, they are objectively less efficient at range than classes with access to long-range weaponry.

"Less efficient" shouldn't be totally useless.
I just mean hero should have something to defend himself when he's last from his team alive (or his team is far away/too busy), fighting against my sith. Otherwise there would be a base to start asking to nerf push or other sith abilities.

That was completely unnecessary.

But it's truth.

I have no problem with heroes being able to fight at close range, I just don't like that they can do both provide long range support and fight up close at the same time. A class that has multiple roles they specialize in, which is in my opinion how each class with the exception of soldier should be developed, is perfectly fine, but to get both simultaneously feels really bad when you aren't playing against them. Hell, it feels bad when you're playing as them.

Too much versatility in a single package feels really bad to me.

Hey, I don't play heroes, I even don't play rebs. Still think heroes are fine (but sniper rifle should do more noise).
There shouldn't be nothing wrong that heroes can do harm on mid range because at the beginning of each round there is teammates around, but at the end hero may be on his own.

We already have 1 vs 1 scenarios that doesn't left a lot of chances to one of participants: saberless sith against wookie, for example. No good if number of such situations would increase.

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

But it's truth.

Dragging other drama from other threads is completely unnecessary and can be classified as flame baiting.

What you believe, is an opinion and is not an established fact. There is no truth.

 

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

Dude, don't like my opinions ignore my posts rather than following me round like a weirdo.

 

[Puppytine]

Dude, don't like my opinions ignore my posts rather than following me round like a weirdo.

It's not about what "I don't like", and not about ignore. And I don't wanna make it personal.

I just want to know what logic is behind to proposition remove snipers. It's kinda stripping features of software, features that were in use by some of the users (but not everybody). This makes that software worse than it was, and left less opportunities to its users. After all, snipers are not unique to mb2, almost every shooter has them -- why shouldn't have snipers as well?

Deleting content of the game is totally unnecessary until there is a *very* good reason to do it, and I can't see such reason in your posts. We can end up with only one class with only one set of abilities... And what gonna left from mb2?

 

[Coul]

I think projectile rifle should be removed from both hero and bounty hunter and the bounty hunter being left with a disruptor and the hero being given a weapon similar to the mandolorians ee-3 carbine

 

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

It's not about what "I don't like", and not about ignore. And I don't wanna make it personal.

I just want to know what logic is behind to proposition remove snipers. It's kinda stripping features of software, features that were in use by some of the users (but not everybody). This makes that software worse than it was, and left less opportunities to its users. After all, snipers are not unique to mb2, almost every shooter has them -- why shouldn't have them as well?
Deleting content of the game is totally unnecessary until there is a *very* good reason to do it, and I can't see such reason in your posts. We can end up with only one class with only one set of abilities...

There is no logic, there isn't even a request for their removal. They annoy me, that's it.

If I wanted something like that changed or removed I'd have suggested a way of doing it or a reason for doing it. Of course they're not going to be removed. They just irritate me.

 

[NERO]

Giving projectile rifles to ETs would be good, if it meant they can't have reinforcements, unless their low HP and armor make them considerably weaker at sniping than BHs.

BHs should stick to projs because their only boons in close range combat is high run speed and armor. I generally find it way more comfortable to engage BHs in medium-to-close range combat than heroes who comes with dash. Also, Zam actually has a proj in the movies.

One thing I'd like to see being changed for the proj is changing the way scope delay works. Instead of having a delay of firing when entering scope, there should instead be an animation for going in-scope that's as long as the scope delay. It would make it way more comfortable to use as a weapon and you could also look at the battlefield before going in scope. You still can't quickscope because of the animation and because there's no crosshair for projectile rifle out of scope.

I just hate using the weapon because the scope delay feels clumsy. If I didn't know better I'd assume it's a shitty bug turned feature.

I think projectile rifle should be removed from both hero and bounty hunter and the bounty hunter being left with a disruptor and the hero being given a weapon similar to the mandolorians ee-3 carbine

Weapons shouldn't be homogenized. The vast variety of weapons in this mod is one of it's better features. Also, something similar to EE-3 would make heroes even more horrifying.

 

[Supa]

The only "problem", if you could call it one, of removing projectile from hero and giving it to commander would be the lack of a mirror on either side. BH would have the snipers on imperials, imperial commander would not.

I don't see a problem with that personally, but many people will, even if BH and Hero are meant to play completely differently.

 

[Coul]

The only "problem", if you could call it one, of removing projectile from hero and giving it to commander would be the lack of a mirror on either side. BH would have the snipers on imperials, imperial commander would not.

I don't see a problem with that personally, but many people will, even if BH and Hero are meant to play completely differently.

I think it can be like the jedi speed situation sometimes mirrors aren't necessary because of the roles of the factions

 

[Supa]

I personally don't believe in the need for almost exact mirrors on either side. So long as the classes more or less provide a similar or complimenting role to the team it's fine that they don't have the exact same abilities on their counterparts.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Problem is Snipers, or should I say, Heroes? have too much stuff, too versatile. But primarily snipers with a ton of back up equipment/abilities for engaging in close range. I think they should specialize in either long range combat(sniper) or meduim/close range combat(everything else).

And yeah, I don't feel heroic being a sniper at all. Heroes is a misnomer in this case.

Do what you did with arc(where you can choose how to modify your gun/changes stat screen) and blot out high rof weapons(or nades/heal/dodge/dash? whatever you want to pick to balance) if you choose sniper.
Give it to another class/make another class.

What else can you do?

Decrease the ammo? Or maybe instead of decreasing the amount of ammo, make it irrelevant altogether and have it time based?
You can only shoot it once every 10, 15, 20 seconds etc.

Nothing so irritating as seeing snipers at the end of the round shoot and miss continuously until the round is over.

Like snipers run out of ammo? Wasn't that one way we attempted to balance them in previous builds? I guess the snipers qq'ed too much and got their ammo 3 round lenght of ammo to roll like pigs in the mud in.

 

[Crusader]

I don't play hero mainly because I cannot hit anything with the projectile rifle, but I've never played against one and thought ''oh wow that guy's really versatile''. The sniper is only as effective at doing its job as the opponent is willing to prat about trying to hit a hyper-mobile opponent with a gun with greater velocity than their own. Another use of the hero is to 'duel' the enemy sniper, which provides the only real fear factor in pushing a position. If as an imperial you hug cover and wait until the hero is in a position where the projectile rifle is no longer a viable weapon, you've essentially forced the hero to waste 20 points on a gun you have denied him use of. In the most common maps where imperials defend their objective such as DotF and LB this is readily achieved. A notable exception might be SDes, where the defending room is quite spacious. With that said, I think a hero can only have a 'shitty pistol' if it were to have all three dodge, dash and heal as a package. That is a lot of points invested before considering armour and ammo.

I'm not particularly sure where anyone is coming from, do people think it's a balance issue, a thematic issue or that people think the hero's kit is bloated? I think hero is quite balanced however dash does empower it to combat a Sith far better than most classes. Vulnerability period could be made a little bigger, not really arsed. It's a team game, if you as a Sith can't kill them, ask a gunner top pile on the hero. I don't really care for thematics. The hero has quite a big kit with QT and grenades, but I think that is for the better given that there are very small maps like Smuggler and Alderaan where I would argue that employing QT + Frags is superior to having a sniper.

 

[Supa]

I think it's the latter of the two, however the last contributes to balance, in it's own unique way. It more asks the question of "is it balanced having all of the tools to do everything?" Personally? No, I don't think heroes need to have everything in the game. It doesn't quite do justice to the "heroes" in the series by giving them a sniper rifle and a bunch of really ridiculous "survival" tools alongside of it.

I'm looking at you, quantum dislocator.

 

[TwiceDead]

One thing I'd like to see being changed for the proj is changing the way scope delay works. Instead of having a delay of firing when entering scope, there should instead be an animation for going in-scope that's as long as the scope delay. It would make it way more comfortable to use as a weapon and you could also look at the battlefield before going in scope. You still can't quickscope because of the animation and because there's no crosshair for projectile rifle out of scope.

I just hate using the weapon because the scope delay feels clumsy. If I didn't know better I'd assume it's a shitty bug turned feature.

Those are my thoughts on the Projectile Rifle as well, it does indeed feel clumsy. It's probably something you eventually get used to, but in the beginning it is very frustrating to know that you would've hit someone had the trigger-mechanic not felt so clumsy.

Problem is Snipers, or should I say, Heroes? have too much stuff, too versatile. But primarily snipers with a ton of back up equipment/abilities for engaging in close range. I think they should specialize in either long range combat(sniper) or meduim/close range combat(everything else).

And yeah, I don't feel heroic being a sniper at all. Heroes is a misnomer in this case.

Do what you did with arc(where you can choose how to modify your gun/changes stat screen) and blot out high rof weapons(or nades/heal/dodge/dash? whatever you want to pick to balance) if you choose sniper.
Give it to another class/make another class.

I actually thought of this as well, if you pick a projectile rifle for instance it'll block out Dodge to make sniper-duels fair matches. Locking out High ROF weaponry isn't really all that much of a drawback though, Pistol 3 is goddamn powerful and a lot easier to use than an E-11 in my opinion. I don't know, it just feels better to use.

About giving the rifle to ET's, I don't know. I don't necessarily see something wrong with heroes having Snipers or long range weaponry, It's more like you mentioned that they are too versatile, they can build in a way that allow them to do everything.

If you did balance it like the ARCs that if you pick Proj. you wouldn't be allowed to pick other options, I could see that work, but should BH's get the same treatment?

 

[Vitéz]

If Health would be a unique talent, not a class privilege in most cases, Proj. Rifle could be given to Reb ET. There should be a lock on Proj. Rifle and Reinforcement to prevent using both of them. Dodge should be removed from the class. Basically the Rebel ET would be much more similiar to BH. On the other hand, the old dodge should be restored. Maybe a more versatile selection of grenades could help a Hero without Proj. Rifle to be less boring. With the restored Dodge, there should be a lock on Reinforcement and Dodge on the Imp ET. So the Imp ET and Hero could be similiar if ET has dodge, and Imp ET could be similiar to a non-sniper Reb ET if Imp ET has Reinforcement. The balance between the Reb ET/Imp ET/Hero/BH classes could be kept with this "rotation-like" balance mechanism.

The classes could use these builds:
Reb ET: ReinfBlaster, ReinfA280, SniperBlaster, SniperA280
Imp ET: ReinfBlaster, ReinfT21, DodgeBlaster, DodgeT21
Hero: DodgePistol, DodgeBlaster + Grenades
BH: SniperPistol, SniperBlaster, SniperDLT20a

I think this may could work... maybe... Hero would be kinda a grenade-spammy class, but without a sniper rifle, so it'd be more authentic. I dont know how could this affect the gameplay... however for the other classes, this selection would be more-less balanced... I think.

Before you start panicing, yelling or do anything weird, this is nothing more than a mere idea... its neither optimized, nor finished, because I'm 90% sure that there wont be any huge-scale class change in the future.

Edit: I forgot: snipers couldnt have neither Dash, nor Dodge, nor Heal with this idea... that was the whole point of my post, just forgot to write it down.

 

[TwiceDead]

@Vitéz
... How about Smoke Grenades?
Although I may remember something about this game really not liking smoke particle effects, really killing the frames or something. I could go with something like knockdown trigger-mines so that they can bait enemies and lay ambushes.

 

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

If Health would be a unique talent, not a class privilege in most cases, Proj. Rifle could be given to Reb ET. There should be a lock on Proj. Rifle and Reinforcement to prevent using both of them. Dodge should be removed from the class. Basically the Rebel ET would be much more similiar to BH. On the other hand, the old dodge should be restored. Maybe a more versatile selection of grenades could help a Hero without Proj. Rifle to be less boring. With the restored Dodge, there should be a lock on Reinforcement and Dodge on the Imp ET. So the Imp ET and Hero could be similiar if ET has dodge, and Imp ET could be similiar to a non-sniper Reb ET if Imp ET has Reinforcement. The balance between the Reb ET/Imp ET/Hero/BH classes could be kept with this "rotation-like" balance mechanism.

The classes could use these builds:
Reb ET: ReinfBlaster, ReinfA280, SniperBlaster, SniperA280
Imp ET: ReinfBlaster, ReinfT21, DodgeBlaster, DodgeT21
Hero: DodgePistol, DodgeBlaster + Grenades
BH: SniperPistol, SniperBlaster, SniperDLT20a

I think this may could work... maybe... Hero would be kinda a grenade-spammy class, but without a sniper rifle, so it'd be more authentic. I dont know how could this affect the gameplay... however for the other classes, this selection would be more-less balanced... I think.

Before you start panicing, yelling or do anything weird, this is nothing more than a mere idea... its neither optimized, nor finished, because I'm 90% sure that there wont be any huge-scale class change in the future.

Edit: I forgot: snipers couldnt have neither Dash, nor Dodge, nor Heal with this idea... that was the whole point of my post, just forgot to write it down.

That's not a bad idea. I'd probably drop E-11 from BH if this was the case so then they're more even on guns and BH gets everything anyway.

 

[Vitéz]

I dont like the idea of a Smoke Grenade... it'd be just as unused as Sonic and Fire Grenades are, not to mention the potential performance problems, or exploits. About removing Blaster from BH: it wouldnt have any affect on the performance of the class, however a change like this could annoy players... so I say a change like that'd be unnecessary.

On the other hand, as an addition to my idea, I think Sonic and Fire Grenades should be removed from the ET classes, so they'd be exclusive to the Hero class. Fire Grenade is a very good counter against SBD. Sonic Grenade would require a buff what somehow affect the Droideka badly... for example turn off shields for a few seconds and/or overheat its weapon... so basically it'd be a nerfed Pulse Grenade against Droideka: it'd force the Droideka to retreat, but wouldnt destroy it, and wouldnt prevent the escaping process. Since this is an objective based game mode, an effect like this could be very useful. The Hero class would be able to deal with any class type, but without a sniper rifle. And the two droid classes (SBD, Droideka) would have two "counter" class on Reb Side (Hero, ARC), both of them with different weapons (Fire and Sonic Grenade for Hero, Pulse Grenade for ARC). Of course SBD and Droideka already has their "counter" abilities against these classes, so it'd be balanced... at least on paper, would require testing of course.

Edit: The 2 main weapon (Pistol, Blaster), the 3 grenade type (Frag, Fire, Sonic), and the other abilities (Dash, Dodge, Heal) give the possibility for multiple different builds, so I think Hero wouldnt be a predicatble class. And it wouldnt be "underplayed", because the old Dodge is a nice ability, and this class would have direct counter weapons against Droideka and SBD, what would be very useful in "normal" matches.

Edit #2: So the classes would look like this:
Reb ET: ReinfBlaster, ReinfA280, SniperBlaster, SniperA280; + Frag Grenade // Trooper, Sniper
Imp ET: ReinfBlaster, ReinfT21, DodgeBlaster, DodgeT21, + Frag Grenade // Trooper, Officer
Hero: DodgePistol, DodgeBlaster, + Frag, Sonic and Fire Grenade // Officer
BH: SniperPistol, SniperBlaster, SniperDLT-20a, + TD, Poison and Tracker Dart // Sniper

 

[NERO]

removing projectile from hero and giving it to commander would be the lack of a mirror on either side. BH would have the snipers on imperials, imperial commander would not.

ETs already have superior long-range capabilities over Comms with A280's scope, while T-21 is considerably more dangerous in close range in my opinion. Flame grenades are also superior area denial tools than sonics, but sonics are better at making enemies defenseless. Forgot the verb here.

There's very little mirroring in this game, the only true case being soldier, jedi/sith coming a bit closer, and hero/BH being barely there, especially with the new stuff heroes have. And I think it's a good thing, and we could use even more of it.


One thing that would be good is giving extra life classes that have no reinforcements ability purchase 100 HP as a bonus. It would encourage more versatile soldier and comm/ET builds and also enable ETs to use proj. Maybe. Cr3 clones would be a bit more fearsome...

 

[Dra-Gon]

This will be a long post...

I want to point out something here that the OP wrote:

Dash, Dodge and Heal.
It seems weird for SNIPERS to get all three of these abilities...

The thing is, heroes are not snipers. The design is not Sniper class that got add stuff and go renamed. It's a versatile class with various abilities/weapons that also got the sniper rifle.
Why I write it is because being sniper specifies the role of the class, however the class was never designed to be sniper. It is a possibility to play like that but it's not the only way.
Also, by all means it completely makes no sense for sniper to have mines and whatnot. The idea of sniper role is that he is powerful ranged damager, with no defense. What mines would achieve is that they would get rid of that weakness. More so, it would just encourage players to "make a mine fort" and camp the whole round in one place.

That being said, if you guys want to remove sniper rifle from hero, because the "package" is too OP, then you may as well remove red style damage reduction, as siths can easily tank a PR's shot, fix the still happening insta-swings, prevent mandas from suicide Jihad rocket heroes, remove hitscan ruptor, grip & push/pull whoring, super lightning, etc. etc.
So yea, heroes are strong when talking about the whole package, but it seems to me that people forget that there are a lot of other random factors that go against them (like the list I wrote above). There is always something OP and something unfair. That makes the game so cool, because it's not guaranteed that you will be the best just because you are vet from B16.

Now to the whole problem written by the op.
The op considered that the package - Dash, Dodge and Heal in conjuction with Projectile Rifle (PR) is OP, hence it should be fixed. I partially agree here, but removing PR is not the good choice IMO. Rebels have no other class that can survive long enough and have only one life.
The idea that it would be given to elite trooper class seems nice at the start, but the bad thing about it is that you either have no survivability or you end up being reckless.
There are two options for implementing sniper role for ET:
a) The PR will cost too much so that you end up with only 1 life and PR or two lifes and no PR
b) The PR will cost enough so that you can still end up with 2 lifes and PR

add a)
This would make no sense. The PR would have to either cost 51+ points so that you don't have 30 points left for another life. I think everyone will agree that such idea is ridiculous.

Another option is to divide the point cost of the PR - still leave it at 51+ point cost, but for example leave it at two levels. This option solves nothing - PR is powerful enough, but balanced for the 20 point cost.
To make any reasonable change to it you're either left with the option to make it even more powerful for level 2, which would be ridiculous idea (I mean, what exactly needs boosting there?) or the other option is nerfing the weapon for level 1 so level 2 is current PR - but you end up with weapon which is worth sh*t unless you buy its level 2. The situation didn't change and you end up in the same situation as in the first option above (1 level for 51+ point cost), solved nothing and only did it in more complicated fashion.

Other option is to limit their class build - like it is for ARC's M5 upgrades, so once you buy reinfocements, you cannot buy PR or vice-versa. That idea seems more acceptable. But at the end of the day, what did you end up with? Just exactly the same class as current hero, with the exception that you are far weaker:

• Classes: Hero vs ET
• health and full armor: 100/60 vs 80/40
• movement speed: fast vs medium
• lives: 1 vs 1
• survival skills: 3 (not counting QT) vs 1 (not counting rally)
• nades: 10pt/frag vs 15pt/frag or 10pt/sonic

So what you ended up with is a weaker version of current hero. That may seem fine - the thead here is, after all, to nerf them. However when you have such weaker class, what does it promote? Only camping. This is not Battlefront, Battlefield, or other games where you get killed, wait 5 seconds and spawn at your base. Once you die in this game, you have to wait until the whole round ends, which takes mostly about 3-4 minutes per round on populated servers. That means you consider your life more precious if you want to enjoy and play the game. So you end up just camping. It's bad now when heroes don't do much but act like pu**ies standing back all the time when they have the power to actually move the whole team forward. But moving that logic onto someone even weaker (= making ETs snipers) just makes it worse. People will always be allured by PR, as it is relatively easy weapon with high damage so they will end up switching from heroes to ETs for the PR.

Thus this begs the question: Would this get rid of snipers or lesser their amount? Maybe by a tiny fraction (some people may end up enjoying the faster movement of heroes in the end, who knows), but it hugely increases the amount of camping people. They will camp even more than now, since they would have no means of escape like heroes do.

add b)
This is the exact opposite of option a). Here, since you have two lifes, you end up being daring. As an example of being daring, you can see even today how heroes "shotgun" siths - or at least attempt to do that. They get really close, aim, shoot. The FP drain is huge enough to pierce through sith's defense and kill him (unless he uses red for the dmg reduction). The thing is at the moment that since you have one life, but high moveability, the more experienced players see this as a 50:50 ratio of being successful, not to mention the coolness earned by being successful. So they end up trying to shotgun siths. But if you miss you're dead most of the time. Inexperienced players end up dead, there's not much else to say about that, so they're not trying that at all, until they are a lot more experienced.

But what will happen once you have two lifes? The scale increases in your favor, since you can attempt to shotgun an enemy and if you fu*k up, you have another life, so who gives a damn right? And once you are back down to one life? You end up like in add a) - a weak version of a hero. You either will go and say "fu*k it" and try to shotgun again, or you end up camping to prolong your last life.
So what would this give the game? Same thing as option a), but with the add negative factor of PR being misused.
Also, can you imagine the endless hordes of snipers?! Gosh. No thanks.

Conclusion to ET getting PR:
As you can see, both options don't really do you much good. You just move the problem from once place to another - but at the end of the day, you still have a problem and solved nothing.


Now back to the package of heroes three abilities: Dash, Dodge and Heal... and the PR.
Considering the stupid idea that you would actually buy all three abilities and PR, what do you end up with? Actually a weak hero.
To get each ability to level 3 you have to pay 15 points. That means all 3 abilities cost a total of 45 points. Add PR to that - another 20 points. So out of the 80 points you have relatively high survivability, but you are left with only 15 points for assault. That won't even get you E11 or pistol on level 3 (not to mention the ammo and armor shortage). All three abilities on their own - or even together - don't make you invulnerable or immortal.
Looking at the abilities, they don't actually do much:

• Dodge - the ability itself doesn't do much (contrary to what it did in previous version). It just dodges sniper weapons. Considering you pay 15 points for it, which is about 18,75% of your total points (thus no small amount), you can temporarily gain advantage against 3 weapons on the imp side, while the total amount of weapons imp side has is 21 (and I'm not even counting force powers). So that's not much of an advantage here.
• Dash - a bit on the "need to think this through" side. It increases heroe's survivability by great amount, as you can create a good distance between sith or dash away from rocket (if you time it right). There is a whole thread dedicated to "fixing" it, etc. But that is not relevant here. What is relevant here is that it does not really make you a better sniper. It enables you to quickly pop up to surprise enemies or get back to cover. That's about all. Is it bad and makes a hero with PR really OP? Not really.
• Heal - the most controversial of heroe's abilities. It doesn't make you invulnerable, but it is controversial because level 1 is as useful as level 3 or sometimes even more useful. I'll explain it more below.

Since heal is the only controversial ability that can be as useful (or even more) on level 1 as on level 3, there's no need to buy level 3 right? Congratulations, you just saved yourself 10 points! Now you have enough points (25 --> 15 you had + 10 you just saved) to also buy pistol 3 or e11 lvl 3 and ammo/armor to it. Now that makes you a lot more of a challenge!

Some of you may think that heal is fine, but I wrote that level 1 is as useful as level 3, so what gives, right? Just for understanding the problem you need to understand the ability itself, so let's take a look:

• Level 1 heals you to 20/40/60/80/100 hp,
• Level 2 heals you to 25/50/75/100 hp,
• Level 3 heals you to 33/66/100 hp.

The idea of heal is that you heal to specified treshold. So if you have level 1 and your hp is somewhere between 20 and 40 (excluding 20), you heal to 40 hp.
You have no control over damage you take, but what happens when you are shot to for example 25 hp? If you have

• heal level 1, you heal to 40, thus you healed 15 hp.
• heal level 2, you are at the treshold, so you end up healing nothing.
• heal level 3 you heal to 33 hp, so you healed 8 hp.

Do you see that? A 15 points ability healed you for 8 hp, a 10 point ability for 0 hp and a 5 point ability for 15 hp.
If it were the other way around all the time then it would be fine, but since you have no control over damage you take and level 1 can heal you better than level 2 or 3, then there is no need to buy those levels at all. They all are same in terms of healing power. That is what's controversial and ridiculous about it. On the old forums I already made a thread about fixing the "Heal" ability itself with the idea that you heal a certain amount of HP after some time with time prolonging and the effectiveness decreasing the more often the ability is fired/triggered and you can never heal more than the amount of damage you took on last hit.

And finally - the projectile rifle.
People here are annoyed of heroes because those 3 abilities give them high survivability. Well as I already pointed out - dodge does not, dash does not, and last but not least, heal does, but due to how controversial it is, it's sometimes more of a bother than anything and in a weird way it actually balances itself out in this matter.

However it seems to me that people completely go around and ignore the fact that you can run with your PR and still shoot accurately. You run, see an enemy, scope, stop holding the movement button, immediately press button to shoot and start running again. The total time you "stopped" (but actually just slowed down due to how the game works) is about .1 second?
The fact that you can pop out of corner, shoot and immediately run back is fine? That you can be crouching behind cover, scope, NOW WHILE SCOPING stand, shoot and crouch again (thus pop sniping) is fine?
You all seem very fine and accepting of the fact that you can do all this stuff with the PR like with any regular weapon (e.g. e11, pistol, etc.) and that is actual the problem. Instead from the role of "camping player who attack on long range" you have a "moving player who attacks on long/mid/close range using long-range weapon".
The projectile rifle's role changes from "sniping weapon" to "regular weapon with high damage, faster shots and ability scope" because the mechanics are for it completely the same! You misuse the weapon! And why would anyone use weak weapon when he can have powerful weapon?!

The problem is not that heroes have dodge/dash/heal, but that heroes can pop out of cover for 0.1 - 0.25 second to shoot at you accurately with powerful weapon and hide back. You may argue all you want, but at the end of the day, a wall or other obstacle gives you always a better survivability than dodge, heal and dash together when sniping.

As I tried to point out in this exceedingly long post, the actual problem is in:

• controversial heal - because there is no need to buy level 3, you get same survivability with just level 1 and save 10 points for something else
• projectile rifle mechanics - not the weapon itself, but the idea that you can run around with it and do stuff that doesn't make sense - like pop sniping.

What I propose for sniper rifle is for devs to try and add the breathing effect (e.g. your aim is never steady while scoping) with the idea of the aim getting gradually more accurate the longer you remain in scope (and at the start let it be really unsteady). Allow you to shoot from PR after at least 1 second passed since you stopped moving. You can shoot while crouching, you can shoot while standing, but you have to crouch or stand for at least 1 second. Changing from crouching to standing or vice-versa should be considered moving. This allows you to still surprise enemies, but it will disable the ability to just pop out of cover shoot and get back in.

Just try it. See what happens.

Thanks for reading.
Have fun and losta love <3