What sort of mind games/tactics should I know for different situations when playing as gunner?
- Thread starter Tylenol
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long range - run to your team before he gets to you.
mid range - never run, don't shoot.
short range - if he gets closer start shooting and don't stop until hes dead (always reload at 2 third - half ammo in clip), use secondary nade if you have one. If hes deflecting your shots you need to move a lot from side to side, crouch sometimes and even run (but only in tiny intervals so he can't push you down).
super short range - try to jump/run sideways while still shooting or even try to duck under his swing with crouch (you're most likely dead though)
If he is rushing you as fast as he can always try to get more space by walking/crouching backwards and have tiny intervals where you even run backwards.
mid range - never run, don't shoot.
short range - if he gets closer start shooting and don't stop until hes dead (always reload at 2 third - half ammo in clip), use secondary nade if you have one. If hes deflecting your shots you need to move a lot from side to side, crouch sometimes and even run (but only in tiny intervals so he can't push you down).
super short range - try to jump/run sideways while still shooting or even try to duck under his swing with crouch (you're most likely dead though)
If he is rushing you as fast as he can always try to get more space by walking/crouching backwards and have tiny intervals where you even run backwards.
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I have some (edit: a bunch of) theories specific to gun vs saber. Take these with a grain of salt, and by salt I mean experimentation. Gun v gun is more straightforward: go for headshots (using pistol, or walking for very brief moments in order to have a stable shot), use cover, use any other weapons you have like grenades, concussion/ion blobs, whatever. I can spell out more gun v gun stuff if you want.
Now then, the vs. saber stuff.
First off: Certain tips here will become less valid after the next patch, which changes some gunner/saberist interactions.
Now then,
General tip: Do not shoot Jedi at long range unless they are running. You have to get within a certain distance of them before your shots do meaningful FP drain to them. (FP drains are being revised next patch)
General tip: Killing a saberist is a matter of depleting their FP and then depleting their HP. So you need to commit. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and keep shooting (while staying in close range, of course.) Once they get below 20 FP they can't push, so if you're SURE they're that low on FP, you can run after them while firing. I recommend playing as saberist to get a sense of how FP drains/regen works, so you can start to tell when an enemy saberist is likely to be low on FP.
E-11 tip: Use primary fire to drain FP, use secondary fire when the saberist gets REALLY close and you're trying to flinch him. (Flinch is probably being removed next patch and replaced with knockback. You'll need to go for headshots more instead.)
Tactics:
In general when an enemy Jedi/Sith is near, you have to walk, of course. Otherwise you're just a free push kill.
When he does a vertical slash or diagonal slash, run and sidestep it quickly, while also trying to shoot him for extra security. Note that running backwards is slower than running sideways/straight, so if you're trying to evade a slash entirely, by running straight away from the saberist, you really oughta do a 180 first.
When he does a horizontal slash, if you read it from a mile away you can switch to Melee and crouch while looking downwards and holding still, to duck under it, then you can go for a nutty kick, and if you land it, you can switch back to E-11 as quickly as possible and get some free shots. This is all a series of nutty risks that require precision, tho. Also requires buying Close Combat.
On that note, you move faster with Close Combat out, so for the sake of evading swings it might be worth it to switch to Melee just for the speed boost to dodge a swing (especially a horizontal swing, although a well-spaced horizontal swing is almost impossible to dodge without ducking.)
But the main way to counter horizontal swings is, of course, to shoot him, cuz that's a counter to every swing. But it also requires really good aim against people who know how to move evasively. I have a separate post somewhere about how to have "really good aim," but honestly my aim varies most wildly just depending on the "purity of my focus." When I'm at peak focus I am a flinching machine. I am always trying to figure out how to reach and maintain peak focus. My current best theory is to toss every thought out of my mind and just "observe" the thing I'm trying to shoot, and then "move" or "modify" the thing I'm trying to shoot, using the blaster as a natural extension of my mind. This probably only works cuz I have a lot of experience, but it sure does work.
Back on topic, if he jumps at you, there's a big mindgame puzzle. First off, if you have a good grasp on aiming-at-that-angle (and most people don't at all), you can probably get some shots on him as he's not likely to be blocking the whole time he's jumping. I find it much easier to aim at people in the air if I play in first person. Makes things less convoluted. I recommend binding an easy to reach key (maybe even a mouse button) to quick switch between 1p and 3p.
As he's jumping at you, he's either gonna go for a slash or a push. If he's going for a slash and not thinking of pushing, you might even be able to run under him or otherwise evade, but if he reads your intent to run and pushes you instead, you're dead, son. People tend to horizontal slash after jumping, so Melee Ducking works pretty often but if someone reads your melee duck they can probably use a different slash and hit you, or slash, dodge your kick, and slash again.
If he jumps at you and lightnings, your only real hope is I suppose to be in Melee so you move faster and can run backwards a little faster. Really, stuff like Lightning and Mindtrick+Speed seem to exist to give Jedi/Sith easy kills on single gunners who aren't teaming up with ally Jedi/Sith. So the main counter to lightning as a Soldier is "have friends." If you can drain the Sith's FP below uhhhh 50 I think, then he can't Lightning any more.
let's see, what other interactions am I forgetting...
Ah, deflect. If he just sits in block and stares at you like an asshole, baiting you to shoot yourself, I personally tend to take it as a challenge, and carefully fire lots of Primary shots at as-close-a-range-as-possible while running in tiny spurts to evade the deflect. If the jedi's a true idiot you can also go for a jumping melee grapple or at least a flying kick, but smarter jedi will hear you switch to Melee and dodge on reaction to that noise. You can also get REAAAAlly close to the jedi and shove the gun down his throat, since deflect stops working at "flinch range", but this is wildly risky for obvious reasons. But everything about gunVsaber is risky.
Oh yes, as Manyo said, reload extremely often. Try to keep your ammo topped off. The longer your reload times are, the easier it is for a smart jedi to just slash you while you're reloading. This is part of why I recommend using E-11 primary fire to drain FP. Not only does it drain FP ALMOST as quickly as landing every E-11 secondary fire shot, it's easier to land every shot, and it actually uses less ammo per shot than the secondary fire, while also firing slower. Meaning it's way more ammo-efficient.
Now then, the vs. saber stuff.
First off: Certain tips here will become less valid after the next patch, which changes some gunner/saberist interactions.
Now then,
General tip: Do not shoot Jedi at long range unless they are running. You have to get within a certain distance of them before your shots do meaningful FP drain to them. (FP drains are being revised next patch)
General tip: Killing a saberist is a matter of depleting their FP and then depleting their HP. So you need to commit. Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, and keep shooting (while staying in close range, of course.) Once they get below 20 FP they can't push, so if you're SURE they're that low on FP, you can run after them while firing. I recommend playing as saberist to get a sense of how FP drains/regen works, so you can start to tell when an enemy saberist is likely to be low on FP.
E-11 tip: Use primary fire to drain FP, use secondary fire when the saberist gets REALLY close and you're trying to flinch him. (Flinch is probably being removed next patch and replaced with knockback. You'll need to go for headshots more instead.)
Tactics:
In general when an enemy Jedi/Sith is near, you have to walk, of course. Otherwise you're just a free push kill.
When he does a vertical slash or diagonal slash, run and sidestep it quickly, while also trying to shoot him for extra security. Note that running backwards is slower than running sideways/straight, so if you're trying to evade a slash entirely, by running straight away from the saberist, you really oughta do a 180 first.
When he does a horizontal slash, if you read it from a mile away you can switch to Melee and crouch while looking downwards and holding still, to duck under it, then you can go for a nutty kick, and if you land it, you can switch back to E-11 as quickly as possible and get some free shots. This is all a series of nutty risks that require precision, tho. Also requires buying Close Combat.
On that note, you move faster with Close Combat out, so for the sake of evading swings it might be worth it to switch to Melee just for the speed boost to dodge a swing (especially a horizontal swing, although a well-spaced horizontal swing is almost impossible to dodge without ducking.)
But the main way to counter horizontal swings is, of course, to shoot him, cuz that's a counter to every swing. But it also requires really good aim against people who know how to move evasively. I have a separate post somewhere about how to have "really good aim," but honestly my aim varies most wildly just depending on the "purity of my focus." When I'm at peak focus I am a flinching machine. I am always trying to figure out how to reach and maintain peak focus. My current best theory is to toss every thought out of my mind and just "observe" the thing I'm trying to shoot, and then "move" or "modify" the thing I'm trying to shoot, using the blaster as a natural extension of my mind. This probably only works cuz I have a lot of experience, but it sure does work.
Back on topic, if he jumps at you, there's a big mindgame puzzle. First off, if you have a good grasp on aiming-at-that-angle (and most people don't at all), you can probably get some shots on him as he's not likely to be blocking the whole time he's jumping. I find it much easier to aim at people in the air if I play in first person. Makes things less convoluted. I recommend binding an easy to reach key (maybe even a mouse button) to quick switch between 1p and 3p.
As he's jumping at you, he's either gonna go for a slash or a push. If he's going for a slash and not thinking of pushing, you might even be able to run under him or otherwise evade, but if he reads your intent to run and pushes you instead, you're dead, son. People tend to horizontal slash after jumping, so Melee Ducking works pretty often but if someone reads your melee duck they can probably use a different slash and hit you, or slash, dodge your kick, and slash again.
If he jumps at you and lightnings, your only real hope is I suppose to be in Melee so you move faster and can run backwards a little faster. Really, stuff like Lightning and Mindtrick+Speed seem to exist to give Jedi/Sith easy kills on single gunners who aren't teaming up with ally Jedi/Sith. So the main counter to lightning as a Soldier is "have friends." If you can drain the Sith's FP below uhhhh 50 I think, then he can't Lightning any more.
let's see, what other interactions am I forgetting...
Ah, deflect. If he just sits in block and stares at you like an asshole, baiting you to shoot yourself, I personally tend to take it as a challenge, and carefully fire lots of Primary shots at as-close-a-range-as-possible while running in tiny spurts to evade the deflect. If the jedi's a true idiot you can also go for a jumping melee grapple or at least a flying kick, but smarter jedi will hear you switch to Melee and dodge on reaction to that noise. You can also get REAAAAlly close to the jedi and shove the gun down his throat, since deflect stops working at "flinch range", but this is wildly risky for obvious reasons. But everything about gunVsaber is risky.
Oh yes, as Manyo said, reload extremely often. Try to keep your ammo topped off. The longer your reload times are, the easier it is for a smart jedi to just slash you while you're reloading. This is part of why I recommend using E-11 primary fire to drain FP. Not only does it drain FP ALMOST as quickly as landing every E-11 secondary fire shot, it's easier to land every shot, and it actually uses less ammo per shot than the secondary fire, while also firing slower. Meaning it's way more ammo-efficient.
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With that thought in mind, how exactly does crouching against slashes work/react? Usually when a Sith tries to get upclose with me, I just rush him and crouch whenever he tries to attack. Usually it makes him pull back and let me get a couple shots in. Does this only apply to vertical slashes?
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Hmm... crouching with a gun out doesn't make you anywhere near as small as crouching with melee + looking down, but it does at least make you quite a bit harder to hit with overheads. It makes it harder for you to land a headshot, but probably easier for you to land a shot overall (torso being wider than head). Forward/sideways crouch movement speed is also faster than forward/sideways walk speed. (Backward speeds are the same, as far as I can tell.)
Personally I only crouch rarely vs saberist (when backed into a corner, especially, for some reason). Achilles has said to me that the only difference between me and the best gunners is that I don't use crouch as much. I prefer standing for the sake of headshots. Headshots don't have any effect on FP drain, to be clear, but once the saberist's FP is gone or if you catch them not swingblocking, a headshot will do a lot more HP damage. Crouching may well be better overall, given how much longer it may make most swings take to hit you. I recommend experimentation. In fact, because of this discussion, I'll probably start crouching more myself.
Something to note is that crouchwalking makes your hitbox taller than crouching-in-place. So if you want to be as small a target as possible while crouching, do hold still. But you can only be small enough to duck under a swing if you switch to Melee (makes your upper body hunch forward a lot) and look down (makes you hunch down even farther).
Next patch will replace flinching with increased knockback, and knockback distance is based on the damage of the shot, so headshots should knock saberists back farther, making them even more important. But we'll have to see. Maybe crouch+body-shot will remain as viable, or become even more viable. (Aside: Is crouch+headshot particularly feasible? I haven't really tried... It sounds like it'd be easier / more intuitive in first person, the way that airshots are.)
Another advantage of crouch+bodyshot is that if the enemy saberist ducks right as they get close and slash, they'll go under any headshot attempts, but probably get hit by bodyshots. So crouch+bodyshot sure is the overall "safest" approach, although it doesn't kill as quickly, and taking a while to kill can get you killed. Still probably the "overall best" approach, and one I should use more.
This probably refers to the current "flinching" system. If someone swings at you without swingblocking, and you shoot him, his swing will be canceled and his arms will be thrown back.
Note: I myself most frequently die to horizontal slashes (hard to dodge) combined with good evasion (hard to hit). I also tend to die to Jump > Slash-Or-Push mixups. I can cope with both of these when I'm on point tho, because perfect aim solves almost all problems (except being attacked by many people at once... and lightning...).
Personally I only crouch rarely vs saberist (when backed into a corner, especially, for some reason). Achilles has said to me that the only difference between me and the best gunners is that I don't use crouch as much. I prefer standing for the sake of headshots. Headshots don't have any effect on FP drain, to be clear, but once the saberist's FP is gone or if you catch them not swingblocking, a headshot will do a lot more HP damage. Crouching may well be better overall, given how much longer it may make most swings take to hit you. I recommend experimentation. In fact, because of this discussion, I'll probably start crouching more myself.
Something to note is that crouchwalking makes your hitbox taller than crouching-in-place. So if you want to be as small a target as possible while crouching, do hold still. But you can only be small enough to duck under a swing if you switch to Melee (makes your upper body hunch forward a lot) and look down (makes you hunch down even farther).
Next patch will replace flinching with increased knockback, and knockback distance is based on the damage of the shot, so headshots should knock saberists back farther, making them even more important. But we'll have to see. Maybe crouch+body-shot will remain as viable, or become even more viable. (Aside: Is crouch+headshot particularly feasible? I haven't really tried... It sounds like it'd be easier / more intuitive in first person, the way that airshots are.)
Another advantage of crouch+bodyshot is that if the enemy saberist ducks right as they get close and slash, they'll go under any headshot attempts, but probably get hit by bodyshots. So crouch+bodyshot sure is the overall "safest" approach, although it doesn't kill as quickly, and taking a while to kill can get you killed. Still probably the "overall best" approach, and one I should use more.
This probably refers to the current "flinching" system. If someone swings at you without swingblocking, and you shoot him, his swing will be canceled and his arms will be thrown back.
Note: I myself most frequently die to horizontal slashes (hard to dodge) combined with good evasion (hard to hit). I also tend to die to Jump > Slash-Or-Push mixups. I can cope with both of these when I'm on point tho, because perfect aim solves almost all problems (except being attacked by many people at once... and lightning...).
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