TODO

ibegyou

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- Remove alt-frag,
- Nerf push to work like pull,
- Rework scoreboard (especially deaths),
- Make switching between weapons on a Wookiee slightly longer,
- The more you combo chain with blue/cyan the less damage it will deal,
- Increase delay between slaps on SBD and make slapping drain more battery,
- Slaps on a Jedi/Sith should get longer delay but knockdown from them should be a bit longer,
- Nerf sense to detect gunshots, running and explosions and at 3rd level it would work like 2nd level right now.
 

Lessen

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- Remove alt-frag,
it's gettin something of a rework real soon

- Nerf push to work like pull,
I assume you mean a narrower cone and a shorter range? Just clarifying.

- Rework scoreboard (especially deaths),
in what way, specifically?

- The more you combo chain with blue/cyan the less damage it will deal,
a pretty large-scale sabering rework is coming "soon"

- Nerf sense to detect gunshots, running and explosions and at 3rd level it would work like 2nd level right now.
cool idea. As a gunner I like the idea of gunner stealth being buffed, but it could also run a risk of slowing the game down, since people can't just charge safely knowing where people are. (by playing as or playing alongside a radar jedi)

- Make switching between weapons on a Wookiee slightly longer,
interesting idea. Nerfs Wook vs Sith, which is fine if the FP drains themselves are high enough that Wook doesn't need to rely on knockdowns anyway.

- Increase delay between slaps on SBD and make slapping drain more battery,
pretty sure a larger scale sbd rework is/was in the works but dunno if anyone's working on it r/n. Might be scheduled further down the line (after the incoming "re-grounding" of a bunch of mechanics, across both gunner and saber, and any other features that are presumably planned for release before the Solo movie.)
 
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ibegyou

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In what way, specifically?

Scoreboard is a thing that bothers me in every modern game but what if idea of K/D ratio being the factor is just wrong? People are rewarded for positive K/D ratio that's the most common approach. I believe it was already suggested great many times in the past to reward for completing objectives and team related activities but kills must remain relevant too.

All of that would take considerable time to complete because it requires coding, testing and all that stuff, so temporarily I would just disable deaths and I mean it literally. You would have everything except for deaths on scoreboard. It would cause two things:

• less negativity caused by team kills and accidents,
• healthier atmosphere because there rat race is over with dismantling of K/D going side by side.

It would be up to the server owners to decide.
 

Lessen

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Huh, I like that direction of thought a lot. A relatively simple implementation:
Give points for doing the objective or for simply being near the person when they do the objective (give same amount of points either way so people aren't fighting over who gets to do obj). That'd be the score element shown on the scoreboard, and aside from that maybe kills and deaths could still be tracked but they'd be only displayed to the player themselves (like in Overwatch iirc) so that if anyone wants to have a dick-wagging contest they have to go through the trouble of announcing their K/D and getting other people to announce theirs.

Honestly I'd also take the tyrannical route and NOT have the K/D hud be a server option at all. To push the "tone" of the game away from that instead of allowing it to remain and split the community.

(edit: One downside/quirk of my "simple implementation" above is that if someone successfully "dies to stall to protect the obj-capturer," they won't get any points. Could fix this for many cases by making it so you still get points if your location-of-death is near the obj when the obj is completed, and only if the obj is completed within like 10s of your death.)

(Oh wait I'm dumb I've completely forgotten to think about how defense points would work. If defenders only got points for killing near the obj or dying near the obj, there would be no more bridge fights in deathstar, cuz everyone would just go to the primary/secondary obj areas.) (Hmmm.)

(I suppose in that way, the current implementation where K/D matters but obj contribution also matters a lot for scoreboard placement... makes some sense. Except that having K/D visible at all leads people to prioritize K/D over obj. So just removing the K/D hud element and leaving the "overall score" hud element could work... as a first step...)
 
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Lessen

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I edited the above post a bunch since posting it so if you're writing something r/n about how incomplete my Simple Implementation would be, I figured it out :p
 
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• less negativity caused by team kills and accidents,
• healthier atmosphere because there rat race is over with dismantling of K/D going side by side.
I don't agree with those, I'll start with the bottom one:
  • People don't care about k/d other than for ego, there is no rat race or incentive to kill more other than to win the round ( then again people barely care about winning)
  • Team kills are not about k/d stats, it's about having to sit the round out due to a team-mate rather than an enemy.
Also I find that push is pretty balanced for now since you have a 3.0+ second cooldown where you can't block anything (mostly saber hits, which gets me killed far too often). But that's just a personal opinion.
 

Lessen

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There's no way it's 3 seconds

yeah i just timed it and i could throw out 3 pushes within the span of 3 seconds, it's probably 1s vulnerability at most. Which IS a nice amount of vulnerability, yes, throwing out a push recklessly against a good gunner or a bunch of gunners will get you hit a bit.
 

Hexodious

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Yeah I'd rather just have Score/Kills/Rounds tbh. Kills/Rounds is more impressive than Kills/Deaths.
 

ibegyou

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Team kills are preciely about breaking the stats. I get 13 kills 6 deaths, 4-6 deaths are team kills or accidents your score is on a par with people that spam [W] swings and stack to get kills. People barrely care about winning the round because they run for kills and they die in the process (got careless or something ) and they ignore the objective even more next round to make up for this - endless cycle.

I am okay with sitting as long as I am not on a par with people that farm the afk or connect to the server with their 3 dummy clients lol. I totally do not mind dying for the sake of victory and if that wouldn't break the overall impression of my performance. There is a rat race period
 
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There's no way it's 3 seconds

yeah i just timed it and i could throw out 3 pushes within the span of 3 seconds, it's probably 1s vulnerability at most. Which IS a nice amount of vulnerability, yes, throwing out a push recklessly against a good gunner or a bunch of gunners will get you hit a bit.
Nah, from what I got, the vulnerability again saber is around 3 second. You have the time to get back to block state and walk around a bit before you will block any incoming hit. If you want I can test it with you ingame.

Usually I push a sabering in a hallway and even if I'm in a blocking stance the blow will come through the front anyway in that window.
 

Tempest

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Nah, from what I got, the vulnerability again saber is around 3 second.
Lessen is correct.

Vulnerability to sabers/gun shots:
Code:
If vulnerability window timer > current time, allow shots/swings to go straight through block

Push used:
Code:
Vulnerability window = current time + 1000ms
Pull used:
Code:
Vulnerability window = current time + 325ms
The vulnerability window duration is the same as the pause on your FP regen after using them.
 
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Lessen is correct.

Vulnerability to sabers/gun shots:
Code:
If vulnerability window timer > current time, allow shots/swings to go straight through block

Push used:
Code:
Vulnerability window = current time + 1000ms
Pull used:
Code:
Vulnerability window = current time + 325ms
The vulnerability window duration is the same as the pause on your FP regen after using them.
Oh ok then, is the timing based on FPS or truly on miliseconds?
 

ibegyou

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Oh ok then, is the timing based on FPS or truly on miliseconds?


I forgot to mention in my post in the beginning.

I would like to live to see more interactions being allowed with force speed (more rewards for creativity) so for instance you could wallgrab before you land but as animation ends not instantly. Currently you can not change direction so you are pretty much dead if you miscalculate something. There is a pesty bug that makes you stuck in landing animation making the sequence of landing 3 times longer*.

Wrist laser is purely for fun now. I have seen among very little people Gargos killing somebody with it. What I suggest be done about it is a slight cost increase (by 4 points?) and increased clip size (twice as big ) so you can practically use it without worrying that much. It should be a viable weapon and it will still break if you get carried away.

I would nerf Hero's dash so it's only usable in melee.

Drains need to be increased on everything but especialy for saber v saber interactions so terrible runners stop tanking hits forever and regenerating on the run with defense 3. I dare to say block points regeneration speed is too big for defenses level 2 and 3. Level 1 has bizarre penalty from jumping it's non existent on other two levels.

Jump 2 is like a underdog. I would give it extended wall run distance, vertically and horizontally so it has more to offer at bigger FP costs that's discarding it as a choice for many. It should give some minor adventage in duels - model should feel heavier perhaps a little different gravity while using it.
 
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Lessen

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@lessen do a review of these ideas.
ok :p

I would like to live to see more interactions being allowed with force speed (more rewards for creativity) so for instance you could wallgrab before you land but as animation ends not instantly. Currently you can not change direction so you are pretty much dead if you miscalculate something. There is a pesty bug that makes you stuck in landing animation making the sequence of landing 3 times longer.
Is this talking specifically about force speed lunge? If so, I think speed lunge is basically fine right now as a super cool-looking and legitimately strong tool that requires a lot of skill. The endlag is an appropriate balance to the sheer speed/range of the attack. I've personally never quite understood the hitbox tho, so if I requested a change it would probably be "make the hitbox larger" lol. But I'm more of a gunner than a saberist.

Pesky bugs (like being stuck in an anim) oughta be fixed tho

Wrist laser is purely fun now. I have seen among very little people like Gargos killing somebody with it. What I suggest be done about it is a slight cost increase (by 4 points?) and increased clip size (twice as big) so you can practically use it without worrying that much. It should be a viable weapon and it will still break if you get carried away.
I've talked about Wrist Laser several times before. In brief, my fixes for it are:
1. Have a little warning "beepbeepbeep" sound right after you fire your second-to-last shot. And have a little warm "boop" sound when a shot is reloaded. (edit: with a higher-pitched boop when ammo is full) To make ammo easy to keep track of, while still maintaining the "overload your weapon to fire an extra shot, but blow up the weapon" mechanic.
2. Redo and simplify the aiming logic of it so it's just a mirrored P3. Also make it so the crosshair in Melee lines up with "mirrored p3" if you have the Wrist Laser equipped.
(Currently the "aim logic" of wrist laser is convoluted and very quirky/random in fast-paced situations.)
3. Wouldn't mind clip size being larger, but adding the audio ammo indicators would go a long way towards making ammo management easier.

I would nerf Hero's dash so it's only usable in melee.
There are a number of ways to potentially nerf or slow down hero, and I can't say I like this one that much. While I do want hero slowed down in some way, I also really like the Dash element of jumping away from incoming saber slashes. (see the "two tweaks to movement" link in my sig for a more extreme idea about solving the Hero Is So Damn Fast problem.)

Drains need to be increased on everything but especialy for saber v saber interactions so terrible runners stop tanking hits forever and regenerating on the run with defense 3. I dare to say block points regeneration speed is too big for defenses level 2 and 3. Level 1 has bizarre penalty from jumping it's non existent on other two levels.
All drains are being tweaked in that big next balance patch, and the overall effect as I understand it (in both saber v saber and gunner v saber) is "higher drains," although certain cases (including Running Jedi vs Blasters) will be lower drains.
 
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ibegyou

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Is this talking specifically about force speed lunge? If so, I think speed lunge is basically fine right now as a super cool-looking and legitimately strong tool that requires a lot of skill. The endlag is an appropriate balance to the sheer speed/range of the attack. I've personally never quite understood the hitbox tho, so if I requested a change it would probably be "make the hitbox larger" lol. But I'm more of a gunner than a saberist.

Speed after dashing wouldn't deactivate if you could perform this wallgrab so you would keep losing fp + loss from grab and you wouldn't be able to deactivate until you land on solid ground or run out of force points.

Wouldn't mind clip size being larger, but adding the audio ammo indicators would go a long way towards making ammo management easier.

This is really good idea it bothers me to look at the corners of the screen.


I am practicaly not using the minimap - i's hardly usable unless you are autistic or something and try to read number of the road from a compass. It's too close, it should display more even if i's just a little you only see the room you are in that's hardly any help to me and maybe just to me but that makes me forget minimap (radar in top right corner) exists for most of time while playing. You still rely more on a big map under [M] because it can cover considerably more but the downside is the time wasted for opening it you practically do not use it because of it. Reworked compass minimap should display more and be a middle ground between present one and the big map.

@DaloLorn promised to make it transparent ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Lessen

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With the big map up, there's actually a cvar that's something like cg_minimapOpacity, that lets you set the opacity to like 0.1, so that you have a big map overlay on screen all the time but you can also see through it just fine.

But I think that feature only works on jamp engine, and not on OpenJK. >:[
 

ibegyou

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With the big map up, there's actually a cvar that's something like cg_minimapOpacity, that lets you set the opacity to like 0.1, so that you have a big map overlay on screen all the time but you can also see through it just fine.

But I think that feature only works on jamp engine, and not on OpenJK. >:[

That isn't immersive enough for me to use.
 
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