The absolute state of MB2

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My main issue with this mod at the moment is that it's just not fun anymore and I think the majority of people are thinking the same thing.

First of all the current duelling patch is below substandard and from recollection there was no open beta before release. I also think the main reason for this patch being so crap is the carelessness of the developers and the "Beta" testers who thought it would be wise to jokingly say the patch was suitable for release.

I have also consulted with some of my friends who play open and all of them have said that they prefer the older iteration the duel of the fates map, which was more fun to play with better sight lines and cover options and overall less bland and linear.

I do however think MB2 can come back from this state but a few things need to be done to ensure it doesn't sink to this level ever again.

  • Push more open beta testing before release of a new patch
  • Widen the inner circle of closed beta testers (at the moment its basically a small ring full of people who are up there own arse).
  • Sod all the new UI, Tutorial and Starter screen or whatever fillers you are working on until a decent patch is made and agreed on that it is playable and the majority of players like it. The bread and butter of the game, which is the game-play, is more important than all of these things.
Thanks for all the memories, heres to hopefully a few less shit ones.
 
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inspirational.jpg
 

Lindsey

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We're three months away from the last real movie for a good bit of time, which always brings in new traffic. This cycle of rise and fall is nothing new after 15 years :p

The DOTF version with the balcony is being addressed by me after Scarif Citadel is finished to give Mace a chance to push out alot of things at the 98 percent completion mark. Given everything else I'm seeing internally theres a rebel fleet worth of stuff coming out so I'm sure the experience is going to be quite enriched in the near future.
 
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We're three months away from the last real movie for a good bit of time, which always brings in new traffic. This cycle of rise and fall is nothing new after 15 years :p

The DOTF version with the balcony is being addressed by me after Scarif Citadel is finished to give Mace a chance to push out alot of things at the 98 percent completion mark. Given everything else I'm seeing internally theres a rebel fleet worth of stuff coming out so I'm sure the experience is going to be quite enriched in the near future.
oh i dont think so.PNG
 
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We're three months away from the last real movie for a good bit of time, which always brings in new traffic. This cycle of rise and fall is nothing new after 15 years :p

The DOTF version with the balcony is being addressed by me after Scarif Citadel is finished to give Mace a chance to push out alot of things at the 98 percent completion mark. Given everything else I'm seeing internally theres a rebel fleet worth of stuff coming out so I'm sure the experience is going to be quite enriched in the near future.
I hope so man and I hope it happens before the movie
 

MaceMadunusus

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I also think the main reason for this patch being so crap is the carelessness of the developers and the "Beta" testers who thought it would be wise to jokingly say the patch was suitable for release.

This patch was entirely designed by beta testers directly. We just asked them what a minimum amount of changes would be to make dueling slightly better. Devs did nothing but propose the question, and actually implement the suggested changes.

Push more open beta testing before release of a new patch

This is a goal we have had for a long time. Easier said than done though, especially regarding the next patch which will essentially change the entire game, not just a few files.

Widen the inner circle of closed beta testers (at the moment its basically a small ring full of people who are up there own arse).

We accept basically everyone that applies to the beta team. However, you are one of the few that were declined for pretty much the reason stated at the end of your sentence there. We currently have over 30 testers. The ones I personally think are up their own ass aren't around anymore and I wouldn't say any of the current testers fit that description.

Sod all the new UI, Tutorial and Starter screen or whatever fillers you are working on until a decent patch is made and agreed on that it is playable and the majority of players like it. The bread and butter of the game, which is the game-play, is more important than all of these things.

You're not wrong about gameplay being the most important thing. However, you are wrong about what the UI, Tutorials, etc are. They are far more than the name suggests and its really hard to fully quantify them on the roadmap. One thing that has been worked on in the back end of things has been the entire reworking of the class and spawn system backends. Due to the needs of the tutorial, with the need to dynamically be able to spawn and changes classes as people run through the level, we ran into massive issues with the old spawn system that was just a massive headache to fix. The whole spawning system, and class backend was just completely bonkers stupid. As a result, we pushed the entire reworking of those systems that have been slowly worked on for years to the forefront. That, within the first few days, had resulted in us fixing everything in the tutorial related to the spawn systems, except for some bugs with weird cases like droidekas.

However, what most don't know, is how much this fixes a lot of things in MB2 itself. We don't know the full extent, as we still need to do a lot of cleanup, testing, etc but it has the potential to be pretty game changing. It drastically changes how abilities are applied to classes, which is hard to explain how much of a benefit that is. It basically makes it easier for us to move abilities around from class to class, and modify those abilities allowing us to modify and balance faster. It also makes it so that its WAY easier to make new classes for mb2. We have something like 10 new classes in testing (To be clear here... a lot of them probably wont see the light of day, but several of them likely will). That were all added/created in a massively shorter time than any time we have tried to do that in the past and that number is an illustration of how much better this system is.

All off that doesn't even include what it does for bugs. It reworks even how classes are selected by the UI and communicated between clients and servers, which should result in less join bugs, and maybe even less kyle bugs. I personally haven't seen a single one since it has been fully working but that is not a guarantee so don't quote me on that. It should also make it so theres less weird morphing when things swap between classes, or fix some weird bugs or allow more options to be done in FAs. That little bit should also fix some exploits as well. Reworking the UI also means that from a back end standpoint for us, even just adding or modifying abilities in those menus is a lot easier as well. It also means, you no longer need to overwrite the official UI when running penekepack or anything. You can make it an option to switch between the two in the options menu.

Even just simple things like customization and performance have had quite a bit of improvement. As a result of redoing the class and spawn backends, each class now has a "default" optimized model. Which means we can potentially implement a cvar, that lets people use a "performance" mode that should boost framerates on lower spec machines, and not require people to download those performance replacement packs that replace everything with basejka models. It also means, model replacements are no longer a thing. You can add your own custom models, and those custom models will appear as the default model for that class for everyone else. Some performance optimizations have been done to several functions as well, so just general performance should be better too.

So while gameplay is definitely one of the most important things, what are are working on is still heavily related to improving gameplay, or making it easier for us to adjust gameplay in the future. The patch should include gameplay changes with it, but we might play it a bit safe, so we can iron out any issues with the conversion. We need to be careful about doing gameplay changes with this, as we can run into a situation where we weren't sure if a bad change/issue is due to something happening in the back end, or a balance change that we did on top of it. There are a lot of gameplay changes that are already being built on top of this new system though.

Either way, my point is, that tutorials, ui, etc are far beyond fillers and mean a lot for the future. UI itself was even technically releaseable months ago before the merge of the new class and UI system that resulted in me dumping hundreds of hours into updating and improving it a crap ton further since. Were getting closer and closer every day. I already wrote out a good chunk of the changelog for release and put it in the beta area and it took me at least 3 hours to write it the other day while not including several things that need more info, and not including the list of gameplay changes just yet.
 

MaceMadunusus

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So you're saying the new patch is going to have the same shitty duelling mechanics? great...

Sabering is still being worked on, but its not a guarantee it will immediately go in with the next patch for reasons mentioned. Too many things still in flux.

Its mostly, defiant, pipex, and myself, with sprinkling of GCJ and Tempest working on tutorials, UI. GCJ did the majority of the UI and class backend reworking himself. Stassin and Tempest are mainly working on sabering, and gameplay changes (with ideas coming from everyone). Different people are working on different things.
 

Spaghetti

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For those who don't quite grasp the implications of the work being done on the back end: Paying Down Your Technical Debt

As far as I know this has rarely if ever been done with the mod's core systems (closest thing I can recall to a major refactor is droideka stuff before v1, but that's minor in scope compared to this). A lot of stuff won't be groundbreaking if you've been playing for years, but it's necessary to move forward with making new interesting stuff.
 
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I dont really get why its perceived as the most difficult ask in the world for the sabering to just be reverted. All we want is something which is at least bug free, i.e 1.4.9 or 1.5 dueling.

Revert it then work on the new shit so we're at least satisfied for the time being and will then gladly wait for tempest/stassin to sort out their builds.
 
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I dont really get why its perceived as the most difficult ask in the world for the sabering to just be reverted. All we want is something which is at least bug free, i.e 1.4.9 or 1.5 dueling.

Revert it then work on the new shit so we're at least satisfied for the time being and will then gladly wait for tempest/stassin to sort out their builds.
Exactly how hard would it be just to rip out the old files
 

Hessu

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I dont really get why its perceived as the most difficult ask in the world for the sabering to just be reverted. All we want is something which is at least bug free, i.e 1.4.9 or 1.5 dueling.

Revert it then work on the new shit so we're at least satisfied for the time being and will then gladly wait for tempest/stassin to sort out their builds.
the current patch is similar to 1.4.9 just higher damages, acm change and swinging back after being hit is slower and slower style change time. 1.5 was ok but buggy and pb was op
 
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