SBD and Deka

Posts
8
Likes
2
These classes are too much of a low effort/high reward, and both usually require to be directly "hard countered" to be dealt with properly, and their strength is further exacerbated by the fact that Imperials are usually the ones with the defender's advantage.

In the case of the SBD, if it were nerfed much more than where it's at now I feel the class could go useless. There's a fairly fine line of balance, and in the end I think it needs a rework into a more mobile class with unique weapons.

The same goes for the Deka, though obviously it has been fleshed out more and more.

I think abilities should be given to these classes that make them more unique and fun to play, while taking away a lot of the passive "pillbox" style gameplay they have now. By "pillbox" I mean the ability to lay down a continuous stream of high-rate-of fire and high-damage rounds for very long periods of time all the while being pretty tanky. The SBD tends to be the most effective at this while utilizing cover, and with slap it has pretty good defense against Jedi as well. They both seem to go up in power the smaller the match size as well. As long as I can remember both SBD and Deka were banned classes when people were still willing to scrim eachother (back before putting egos on the line became too great of a risk to take).

Anyone who has played this game for a while would probably agree that Deka/SBD are usually fallback classes people switch to when they are getting owned in some way. Not many people find them fun to "main" the class like they might a Hero/Jedi or what not. But they are extremely powerful/annoying to deal with, especially the SBD, sometimes even in incompetent hands. I would probably say that for any player of any given skill level, they tend to be much more of a threat if they play SBD/Deka than any other gunning class.

I know that coding resources are pretty limited so a redesign may be asking too much, even if a slight one. I won't go into writing a huge wall of text since I really just want to know if the majority agree with me or not.
 
Last edited:
Posts
460
Likes
682
Deka is just weird imo. I have no Idea how to balance this class but it is always so frustrating to play against.

I'd say revert the changes that proj does shield dmg to the deka back into the old state. That would fix dekas spamming a corridor with unlimited ammo and just hide when you shoot their shield down.
 

Gargos

Donator
Movie Battles II Team
Posts
574
Likes
1,186
Deka is just weird imo. I have no Idea how to balance this class but it is always so frustrating to play against.
This

I have hard time coming up with balance ideas to stop making it annoying to fight against yet not make it useless.
 

StarWarsGeek

Internal Beta Team
Posts
497
Likes
403
I think deka has improved greatly thanks to the last overhaul. IMO, it's not nearly as bad as SBD. It does suffer from being too rock-paper-scissors though. With the hull HP nerf, a single clone with ion blobs is enough to render any deka useless. I'd like to see ion blobs and pulses have less severe effects against deka, but in exchange a change to how shield works. Currently, no damage except melee goes through deka shields at all until the shield is completely gone. Deka shield should only block a percentage of the damage.

This way, all gunner classes would be able to whittle the deka down over time like heroes used to be able to, but less severe. If deka shield let through 20% for example, a deka hit by a proj shot takes the full 150 shield damage and 30 hull. When hit by E-11, shield takes full 24 and hull takes 5. Hull might need to be buffed a bit, but this would be stop the deka's ability to tank forever. Might also be a good idea to have the % let through change based on how much shield the deka has. Something like 76-100% shield = 0% hull damage, 51-75% shield = 20% hull damage, 26-50% shield = 40% hull damage, 1-25% shield = 60% hull damage.

Alternatively, do another point overhaul and add in a new shield ability. Shield Strength determines what % of damage hull takes through shield, and Shield Battery determines how much shield the deka has.


SBD is definitely OP. It's been in severe need of an overhaul for a long time. Hull 3 + Battery 3 + one or two armors turns it into a nearly invincible tank, and FP0 or FP1 is still a good amount of firepower. FP3 turns the class into a CR3 clone but it can still tank better. Rebels don't have any class that can tank as well as SBD can, and the hard counters aren't as effective as they are against deka. SBD is basically a deka with much fewer drawbacks.
 
Last edited:

Supa

The Serial Stacker
Movie Battles II Team Retired
Posts
914
Likes
355
The problem with deka is it's tie in with vehicle code, which I don't think JKA ever did that well. If it perhaps had it's own skeleton and wasn't restricted by the wonky JKA vehicle movements it would be a lot more fun. Besides that there is little that can be done with it, beyond area suppression, which it at the moment excels at with the right team.

An SBD overhaul would indeed be good, though. 8)
 
Last edited:
Posts
495
Likes
540
Anyone who has played this game for a while would probably agree that Deka/SBD are usually fallback classes people switch to when they are getting owned in some way.
I strongly disagree, my fallback class is soldier, as it allows me to be owned 3 times per round ;)

The problem with SBD is it's tie in with vehicle code
you mean deka, not sbd

imo dekas and sbds are currently balanced
they might seem OP, but only when properly used (giving suppresive fire, being defended by teammates). You can't really blame dekas if the targets run into their fire, right? And the advanced logics they feature is a very good counter for recent mt whoring plague

i say no changes are necessary, unless there is something changed about the counters for them (EMPs, jedis, clone blobs)
 

Preston

Nerd
Posts
1,022
Likes
650
Deka is meh imo, but sbd needs an overhaul. And it needs to fix its over the top headshot damage on jedi. Its over 80 hp damage with 1 headshot on a jedi.
 
Posts
495
Likes
540
Deka is meh imo, but sbd needs an overhaul. And it needs to fix its over the top headshot damage on jedi. Its over 80 hp damage with 1 headshot on a jedi.

lol you srs? that's what headshots are for
anyway, you can use the red perk to reduce the dmg taken and once you get close, crouchswing the shit out of the poor sbd
don't thank me
 
Posts
1,013
Likes
572
My problem with droidka is that depending on the map, you can crash soon as you spawn assuming the spacing isen't tight.
I made a thread about that in the bug tracker and listed two maps where the crashes frequent.
 
Last edited:
Posts
142
Likes
59
SBD bullet is weaker than pistol and super slow. Weak against sniper, jedi, wookie, clone blob, pulse nade, any nade (can't run away). And even if you don't have any of these you can just shoot it and hit it with almost every bullet.
 

Preston

Nerd
Posts
1,022
Likes
650
SBD bullet is weaker than pistol and super slow. Weak against sniper, jedi, wookie, clone blob, pulse nade, any nade (can't run away). And even if you don't have any of these you can just shoot it and hit it with almost every bullet.
Im not talking all about sbd, I agree they are not mobile, and yes they dont have the same bullet speed as a pistol or whatever.
And I do believe sbd is balanced, ither than that one part. Where a headshot takes over 80hp from someone. And its not just against jedi either. SBDs ridiculous headshot bonus is against all classes. I dont care how slow the bullet speed is. A gun that can have the rate of fire of a cr3 shouldnt take 80hp per headshot.
And @Damn Polak don't even get me started on that perk, and again its no just on jedi.
 
Posts
263
Likes
205
SBDs are fine imo. My personal gripe with the class is that I find them utterly useless without FP3, unless I can make actual use of one of the mag plating and blast armor. Cortosis at the cost of FP3 is something I don't care to take, I find FP3 generally more useful against jedi. If they get to me and crouch swing my ass without me being able to shoot them in the face, I'm dead regardless of cortosis.

If any change could be implemented, it'd be making battery a bit more dynamic, making it drain faster but also recover much faster. So SBDs would have to manage their energy with more care. Another issue here is that if you want to run and fire you pretty much have to take battery recharge 3, unless you can -safely- sit behind corners for recharge mode every few seconds.

Droidekas are kinda fine but they can be very strong when spammed. We've partially dealt with the area denial problem with the massive magazine reduction they got. A single deka isn't really a big deal, you can even go one-on-one against one in long range with a peashooter and win if you can evade fire well/utilize cover better than the deka can. When two dekas sit somewhere together, it's pretty hard to deal with unless you've got EMPs (and teammates who are actually competent enough to realize they should shoot at the the deka when it's EMPd.).

Suppose more fine tuning could be done for both classes.

One thing I utterly hate in games is hard counters. Balancing SBD and deka in the way where hard countering them with EMPs wouldn't be necessary, while having EMPs not affect them as drastically as they do right now. Mind you, I'd rather go with the way they currently are that have this done in a poor manner.
 
Posts
1,013
Likes
572
I think the droidkas are too fast. Its a pain to shoot them in open environments, but if you can get them in a funnel they are easier too hit.
The class is fine as it is besides the crashing bug and the travel speed.

For sbd, I think cortosis should have a higher defense and make it cost an extra 5 points.
The red crouch slash destroys everything. If the jedi knows what they are doing, sbds are very easy to kill without gunner support.
If their strafe speed was the same speed as moving forward, that would help them be more viable against other gunners.
 
Last edited:
Posts
109
Likes
106
Droideka is too much of an outlaw class, and in it's current state, it's as balanced as it can be imo. It can't tank for ages like they could in v0, recharging shield takes more time, but it still has the awesome firepower, so it can own. I don't think it's the class that players fall back on anymore.

However SBD can still be the "fallback" class sometimes. So I'd be happy to see an SBD overhaul.
 

SomeGuy

Donator
Internal Beta Team
Posts
397
Likes
194
SBDs are fine imo. My personal gripe with the class is that I find them utterly useless without FP3, unless I can make actual use of one of the mag plating and blast armor. Cortosis at the cost of FP3 is something I don't care to take, I find FP3 generally more useful against jedi. If they get to me and crouch swing my ass without me being able to shoot them in the face, I'm dead regardless of cortosis.

This is exactly my view of it as well. Firepower 3 is the best option. The best defense is a hailstorm of headshots in a perfect line. Cortosis is basically useless against any Jedi that crouches and only really helps on single quick saber attacks.

I think that the SBD should just be changed to 'Assault Droid' or something and get more models like the Dark Troopers and maybe RAB while also increasing mobility and versatility. Then their clunkiness and tankiness could be dialed back in favor of different play options. Like wrist rockets or arm cannons, dedicated melee attack mode (Droid Rage, call it Overdrive or something), whatever else. A dual wrist blaster option could be cool getting rid of melee defense. Make the Battery more important like adding jumps and maybe short sprints at battery cost, but it would need faster default recharge as a result. A small jump pack maybe like those SBDs in the CW series, and Dark Troopers, could utilize. Oh and make melee slaps always knock down since they'd have decreased hardiness.

I don't know but I feel their limited mobility plays a crucial part in how they act as basically player controlled turrets. Same problem with Dekas but a little more tanky. I have no idea what cool things to do for Deka.
 
Posts
1,384
Likes
1,306
Alternate firing mode for both.

Sbds - the arm cannon from Fa.
Dekas - charge shot that consumes all your ammo to pierce through jedi block or something.

Or rework shielding entirely.
Shields up - nearly invulnerable to everything. Caveat - can't fire.
Shields down - vulnerable, big target but high firepower.

Or mini-rockets! Take a page out of that vehicle/tank that looks like 2 big curved hoolahops that fires a multitude of rockets.
Self-Destruct! Jihad Deka!!

Blow everything away. Better yet, hit the self-destruct button while rolling. Wheel on fire.

Jetpack Deka!

And correct me if I'm wrong but I could have sworn several builds ago Sbs could slap down Strength 3 Wooks just as easily as Wooks could slap down Sbds.
 

Puppytine

Slayed dreamer
Posts
2,237
Likes
1,487
Deka is fine. At least, when there is only one deka.
Also deka is something completely different than any other class, in terms of both gameplay and technical implementation. I think developers spend a lot of time trying to balance it, I remember droideka was much more powerful in 2007. At that time it was overpowered, true.

Deka isn't very versatile, the only thing it can do is just shoot at one point. Shouldn't be too hard to deal with.

sbd sometimes looks OP, eliminating jedi one by one with slap + shoot.
Rebels don't have any class that can tank as well as SBD can
Wookiee. Too often I see melee walking carpet just run from a corner and tear half of imps team to pieces.
 
Posts
142
Likes
59
Deka is meh imo, but sbd needs an overhaul. And it needs to fix its over the top headshot damage on jedi. Its over 80 hp damage with 1 headshot on a jedi.
Is it really true? 80 hp per headshot? And it's not even mentioned in the library.
 

StarWarsGeek

Internal Beta Team
Posts
497
Likes
403
Wookiee. Too often I see melee walking carpet just run from a corner and tear half of imps team to pieces.

Once a wook activates fury, sure it can tank well. But outside of fury mode, wooks are fragile compared to SBDs. If you target the wook before it can build up fury points or get free headshots while the wook has to stand still to activate rage, it goes down relatively quickly for a "tank" class. SBDs also have the advantage of being immune to headshots. Maybe wook is an equivalent tank to an FP3 SBD, but an SBD with mag+blast is probably the best tank vs gunners in MB2.

EDIT: Not to say that fury mode wooks arent absurdly tanky, but SBDs are tanky all the time while wook only has a limited window of tank time.
 
Last edited:
Posts
1,013
Likes
572
Here is a dumb idea, give their weapons a toggle.
Where only one arm fires, left click for left cannon and right click for right cannon.
Weapon toggle, back to normal firing mode.
This can help conserve power and make them an even better mobile turret.
 
Last edited:
Top