Puppytine
Slayed dreamer
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"Brits leave without saying goodbye, Jews say goodbye without leaving"
So guys, now I get unbanned for some short time, and I was looking forward to post a message to my goodbye thread, responding to your replies, but since it has been locked, I have no other option than start a new one.
There is a poll in this thread, please vote.
Some important thing I want to point out:
By exploring my previous thread, I realized that some people got completely wrong impression about my intentions.
No, I never wanted to leave these forums, and I still don't want to.
I want to stay.
The only reason why I did create my "farewell thread" was a fear that admins will ban me permanently, but I wanted to say goodbye to everybody while I could.
Since developers still aren't going to allow edgy memes by any means necessary, the purpose of my farewell thread is still valid.
Oh no Helix, you get it all wrong, everything is exactly opposite.
It's me Obi-Wan, you're Anakin
"Your anger and your lust for power have already done that."
"Anakin, my allegiance is to the Republic ... to democracy!"
Yeah guys, this is exactly what I could say about you.
And don't forget,
"The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"
Also, that "You were my brother"... nah, not so much.
Viserys was my sister. I loved her.
If we're comparing SW scenes with our drama, I think this one also do the trick:
Han Solo - me
Kylo Ren - Spaghetti
Rey - Viserys
Chewbacca - Damn Polak
Finn - Quinto
Thank you.
You expressed my feelings very accurately.
Exactly.
Seems developers are much more interested in wasting enormous amount of energy to take these forums under control than making MBII a better game.
I spend enormous amount of energy supporting people who got issues, and entertaining visitors of "Funniest pictures" thread, but devs started viewing me as an enemy for no reason, despite that they aren't ready to spend same efforts for the Support section.
Holy shit, I think I've done something that was considered impossible.
Who would have thought Chaos and Goliath could agree on something?!
The problem is, they don't want to fight for me, they actually do their best fighting against me. This is what they chose.
And in fact, they didn't even have to 'fight' for me, if they wanted to keep me here.
All they have to do is give some special section, some safe space, where I could post my edgy pictures without being banned, that's all.
It was never my intention to spread them all over the forums, I never tried to shove my memes down people's throats, but moderators think they are allowed to shove their bias about what cannot be posted on these forums down memers' throats.
Shame. Shame. Shame.
Are you talking about rules that weren't even approved by the community?
Rules that has been imposed as a fait accompli?
Rules which draft wasn't discussed by the community, rules that weren't voted by the community, rules that weren't changed no matter how many people protested against them?
I would like to talk about it.
My dear droid, you must be superior in logic, far more advanced than any of us.
So I want to forget about any feelings and emotions those make my blood boil, and I want you to examine my arguments and find a logical fallacy, if any:
How do we make a decision? By carefully considering all possible consequences, weighing pros and cons.
If pros of a decision are more important than cons, decision is accepted.
If cons overweight pros, decision is rejected.
The question is: 'is decision to ban edgy pictures best for Movie Battles II?'
Pros:
- Hmmm... In fact, I can't find any pros of that, but anyway, surely developers know some pros.
- It's against majority of the community.
- Puppytine will be banned, therefore he won't be able to help people in the Support section.
So, what your artificial intelligence tells you, Goliath?
What is more significant is this case, pros or cons?
Oh, this is exactly what didn't actually happen.
All my concerns weren't listened, they were simply ignored and directed to the trash bin, just like the majority opinion.
Yeah, I just decided to nullify results of my two-years efforts and struggle, just to make some kind of joke. Very believable.
Are you telling these people about being ignorant? How cute, keeping in mind uncensored version of eez's resigning thread
Call it whatever you want, but the difference from ban isn't very big. Not a big at all.
Yes this is what I stated, but it didn't actually happened.
I was bann... oh I'm sorry, "suspended", because of pictures those didn't even violate current forum rules.
I became a victim of improper and unfair moderation, when I got two warning points for two pictures which weren't against any rules, and then, after few days, another five pictures silently disappeared from my post.
Even Trump pic was deleted, despite the fact you stated 'Thread policy about not posting pictures related to "recent politic events" have been lifted'. Even Trump pic!
And Hessu explained later why the image which caused me to receive warning points had nothing to do with any violations.
You guys don't even follow you own rules, and ban people for random pictures!
Rules those shouldn't be enforced at all, by many reasons I already explained.
Yeah, you spend a lot of time and effort, but all those time and effort weren't about to explain why these rules should be set at first place.
No matter how hard I tried, you didn't actually discussed anything with me. You didn't give me any reasoning why those memes can't be posted anymore even in private section; instead you kept that reasoning secret.
You guys spend thousands of words to talk with me, but you never actually wanted to discuss anything with me. All I got from you is a straight mansplaining.
All that you was doing is repeating "calm down and shut up, Puppy. We made a decision about you, and you aren't allowed to have a voice about this decision, and community doesn't have a voice too, and we won't tell you why did we make that decision, so calm down" is thousand different ways and voices.
And yes, some voices were really sweet, especially yours. You was pretty patient, very polite, you were so kind and sweet. Spaghetti was very civil as well.
But keeping things polite on the surface, you was insulting me more and more by not taking me seriously, despite all my efforts.
A husband has to take an opinion of his wife (a partner) into account, he can't just giving her orders, making everything a fait accompli and expect that she'll do everything he told her to do. Anything else means that a man does not respect his partner, his wife.
You treated me not like an adult, not like a partner, only like a crybaby. This is huge disrespect. I thought being a "development partner" means that even if I aren't getting access for making decisions, at least I'll have an access to discussing them. Discussing them on developer's level. I see I was wrong.
Hell, you probably will never be able to understand that, but I also think that not only dev partners, but the whole community should have a chance to decide something.
Once again, not taking my opinion into account is just unfair; not giving even an explanation and reasoning is spit in my face.
So I repeat my question you never bother to answer:
Why those memes have no place here?
Why those memes cannot be posted in private section, with a declaimer?
Why the fact that nobody protested those pictures is totally ignored?
Not a rhetorical questions. I want them to be answered.
Lately, in our private discussion, you finally gave me some responses, but I beat all your arguments, therefore these questions are still unanswered.
This is not ridiculous. People was becoming martyrs during all the history of mankind, for different reason, in different countries, and they will continue doing it even when our bones will turn into dust.
No, it's you guys who don't want to see me here.
I didn't ban myself, you did. You had a choice, and you chose to ban me, you pulled the trigger.
But this is true. I don't deserve a ban, not even once.
Hell, I didn't even deserve a ban according to your own rules.
You pulled the trigger. I'm not going to ditch these forums on my own, please stop lying.
That's not about just me, I think whole community should have its voice about rules, and that voice must not be ignored by devs.
Forum policy shouldn't be dictated by whims of 4 people.
Very different people, from different countries, different genders, different age, have expressed their concerns in polite way.
Yet you guys decided to push your decision over everybody's heads.
It isn't supposed to be dictatorship, it's supposed to be popularity contest.
As Frank said, "Sometimes you have to concede to what the community wants, not what you feel is right."
No, it's you who got this completely upside down. It's absurd that deny it.
You literally stopped me from continuing with forum support for one week, literally, by bann... I mean, by suspending me. Literally.
While I'm not banned/suspended/whatever nice term you'll invent, I'm not going to stop from continuing with forum support, not even once.
Believe me.
But the rules doesn't represent views of majority of community. The rules weren't discussed with community, weren't voted, weren't approved.
Why should I leave forums where I spend two years contributing and struggling?
I already put so much time and effort into memes thread, and when you put effort to something, that thing becomes important to you. That's how human psychology works.
Also, I was allowed for doing that for a two years. When they changed the rules so rude and so instant, without even discussion of draft of new rules on forums, I felt offended.
That pissed me off.
My destiny has been decided without me, like I was a thing, or a pet. Something that I already had, something that was mine, was taken away me. Stolen from me.
Making rules on new forums from scratch, and changing existing rules, when people already have their habits, are very different things.
Oh yeah, exactly, I chose to be banned.
Just like all those people in Catalonia, who knew that their referendum is completely illegal, chose to be brutally beaten.
Or just like Chinese people, who went to Tiananmen Square in 1989, they probably chose to be killed as well.
The fact the somebody is breaking law doesn't mean you can do anything to stop him/her.
Please do not let yourself be misled. Don't let them trick you.
I have to assure you that this all is because of edgy memes, nothing else.
I'm not sure what to do you mean.
My attitude is already fine. I don't want to wage against developers or anybody else, I don't want to fight, I don't want any drama, I don't want to leave, I don't want to be banned.
I just want to have some place on these forums where I could post edgy pictures without disturbing anybody, in peaceful way.
This ain't gonna change, I will never get past this my wish.
^ Accurately what I do think as well.
You literally have read my mind. Literally.
Just going to confirm one more time: All I want is that garbage bin, but developers don't want to give me one, no matter how many times I asked.
That's what this conflict is all about.
Thank you guys, you've made absolutely brilliant arguments.
I really wish developers stop listening to that voice in their heads that makes them delete pictures and ban people without even explaining why they're acting that way, and start listening to logical arguments
Mace, sorry to say this, but your reasoning is insanity absurd and has nothing to do with a reality.
In fact, I could treat your post as a some form of warrant canary, that you decided to put some completely false, laughable arguments to pass by rules for developers ("don't publicly contradict other devs (especially Project Leaders)"). That could be the only logical explanation of your reply.
But since you told me similar things in private, I know you're real. You actually mean it. I... I... have no words to describe it.
No, this exactly does mean the community, absolute majority of the community, weren't listened.
And I have to remind you that we weren't offered any compromise at all, despite all your (devs, not you personally) words about being "friendly" and "inclusive".
WHAAAAAAAAAAT?!
Where is that section, exactly? How many of them? Why I cannot see any campaign is going on for supporting idea of adding bots? Were some notable forums users banned for posting their implementations of bots?
Comparing a new section for edgy memes to bots makes no sense, because making bots possible requires a lot of time and effort from MBII team, A LOT, not just SOME time and effort.
Allowing edgy memes doesn't require any time and effort at all. The whole "Off-topic" section is already not accessible by guests, so everything that should be done is already done.
More over, banning pictures you call "inappropriate" need more resources than allowing them, because somebody have to spend his/her time for censoring and banning, instead of actual development.
But wait, there is more: banning edgy memes leads to banning Puppytine, banning Puppytine leads to that somebody else has to support users, and that leads to that person will have less time for development.
Therefore, you are not saving resources by making decision we are talking about, you're wasting your resources.
You guys spend more time waging wars with the community, than you do helping users in the Support, or moderating Support properly. Actually, I was the only person who cared about proper moderation, everything you do is deleting pictures and banning multiple prominent members of the community.
Nice joke, Mace.
How many people in the world play computer games regularly? 100 millions? 500? Population of USA is 323 mils, and world population is kinda 7.5 billions.
But all those numbers are completely unrelated, because it's not about Jedi Academy, it's not even about Movie Battles -- it's only about these forums, not anything else.
We all can see users' activity live, it's displayed on main page, and we all see that it isn't very big. It's comparable to the amount of people who have voted in my polls.
More over, it's not only about people who wanted edgy memes, it's also about those who don't want them -- and we can clearly see that very small number of people are against my pictures, only a few. I can even say "almost nobody is against", and that would be legit.
Seriously, you can't compare amount of those who voted "yes" to any numbers those are supposed to represent size of our community, doesn't matter are those numbers correct or fantasy.
You should compare it only to "no" votes.
Yes, forums is a small portion of the MB2 community, and the meme thread has nothing to do gameplay, servers and the rest of the community.
"Funniest pictures" thread is only about forums, nothing else, so only forums community should decide anything about that. People who just play Movie Battles and don't visit forums have nothing to do with that thread and forums in general, so they shouldn't be mentioned in the context of forums rules
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Yet another wonderful moderation decision we got recently: eezstreet's thread got locked for no reason, before I had a change to post my reply (I spend a lot of days arguing with Viserys privately, and I have to spend a lot of time for my RL job).
Since I'm not allowed to respond in his topic, I'm doing it here.
@eezstreet it's sad to see you leaving the team. It's a huge loss for Movie Battles, I'm sure you are able to make mod much better in many ways.
I was watching you, talking about your ideas both on these forums and on Discord, and I was impressed by your enthusiasm and your knowledge.
Some of your suggestions were really great, and I was looking forward to see them implemented
While the reasons of your resigning are unrelated to my story, to memegate, I still think they are sharing same root causes: that's all because MBII leads don't trust people, even other team members. They don't respect and don't accept any points of view those aren't matching theirs, the whole development process is overmanaged.
Reading uncensored version of your thread, I realized that positive changes are blocked by a will of controlling of each and every aspect of activity coming from regular developers, and those who block such activity don't want to perform actual work by themselves. The dog in the manger.
There is a great article about this kind of management, I already gave you the link on Discord, but I want everybody to read it: Two Stories (Russian: Joel on Software - Две истории )
It's very related to Movie Battles right now.
I wish I could, but I just can't find any opportunity for me.
I tried being polite, I tried being logical, I tried crying out loud, I tried speaking public, I tried speaking in private, but nothing seems to work.
I don't want to be overdramatic, not even once, I just want to get some place where I could post my edgy memes as usual.
It's not personal at all, as well as it isn't supposed to turn into the drama.
But the problem is, dev ignored poll results of "Volume in 4" in the same way they ignored all other polls.
The only treatment I got is "we will either ignore or ban you." What kind of discussing like civilized people you're talking about? Two sides are needed for discussion.
How did you make this conclusion? Why do think ditching arguing would change anything?
Developers already showed very clear that their opinions on edgy memes aren't gonna change only because some time passed. For some strange, irrational reason, they believe they not only have a right to enforce their personal biases to the whole community, they also think it's something that must be done.
From my side, I have to assure you that my point of view, my craving for posting funny pictures ain't going to change as well.
Not in one month, not in one year, not in ten years, not even on my deathbed.
If you thought that if I took some time "to cool off", I would deal with, live with inability of posting edgy memes, that I would simply stop protesting and forget about pics I used to have, you was wrong.
And I want to notice that this is a pretty cynical plan, even cruel, to be honest.
In fact, that only would made my position even worse, since devs could say "Hey, rules have been changed a long time ago, we almost forgot that we allowed edgy pictures once, why do you think we are going to even discuss it now?"
The fact that rules/enforcement policy was changed out of nowhere, when nobody was complaining about it, is the one of my main arguments, actually.
GOD DAMN IT EVIAN
One of the times I really regret I can like a post only once.
lol you're extreamly naive then
And since we are talking about Cat Lady, I have to point out that a lot of time passed since that incident when Cat Lady insulted us, as it's shown in eez's posts, but still there is no official statement from Movie Battles team, no apology.
It's unexplainable why MBII team didn't say sorry yet, it makes team look completely unprofessional. Apologizing for an inappropriate behavior an employee/team member/whatever is something that big corporation and small companies do all the time.
In civilized society, calling your customers/clients/fans "shitters" and "troglodytes" isn't that you can get away with no apology.
As we can see, Cat Lady didn't stop after assaulting the community on Discord, no; He tried to ridicule eezstreet in his own resigning thread, and just recently he went even further:
Cat Lady was seen on BG FA server, tking and trashtalking, admins were forced to temporary ban him: cat lady rage tking | {BG} Team Forums
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