Projectile Rifle

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This gun seriously has too much going for it at the upper echelon's of play (which aren't that hard to get to once you figure out the basics).

Any connect with this weapon is going to cause severe/lethal damage to any class it hits. It's projectile speed is obscenely fast. Everyone's been on the receiving end of an impenetrable hall due to the presence of 3, 2, or even 1 sniper. There's no counterplay other than avoidance given how fast the weapon fires in addition to it's damage.

This weapon has been the best gun in the game for as long as it's existed, and that was pushed over the top once projectile speeds were ramped up. While it used to be powerful it was at least workable to dodge and erratically move towards a sniper when the projectile was slower, now it's "see model, click fire, player dies" because the bullet travels that fast.

There's a couple of things that could be done to alter the rifle:
1. Reduce accuracy, require some stabilizing mechanic that isn't negated by a frame's release of movement keys
2. Reduce damage
3. Reduce projectile speed

1a: MB2 is naturally arcadey as it's base is quake, and snipers are meant to be powerhouses rewarded for accuracy and timing. This is good, and the current accuracy of the rifle reflects this mentality well, it's just a little too easy to be accurate with the weapon. Not to mention adding a stabilizing mechanic would really shaft the already harder to operate offensive side of any map. Ultimately I think this is in a fine state and wouldn't touch it.

2a: The damage of the rifle goes hand in hand with it's style of weapon, it's the AWP of MB2, and sniper rifles notoriously do tons of damage. I wouldn't want a sniper to ever feel cheated from landing a good shot (headshot) they should be instant kills. Body shots and below though also happen to be instant kills a large majority of the time, which I don't necessarily agree with. It'd feel weird to go in and add specific modifiers to the modifiers for projectile rifle to favor headshots and diminish returns on lower body shots. So again I wouldn't touch this.

3a: In the past the projectile rifle's bullet speed was quite a bit slower, you could peek, fire a shot in return and dip into cover (if the corridor was long enough) that you wouldn't end up with your brains splattered on the wall behind you. You could also rush snipers with some semblance of confidence that if you jumped, bobbed, or ducked at the right time you wouldn't end up splatted again. Nowadays rushing down a sniper leads to the image we all know well of a goofy barrel wobbling around a corner scope pressed to lando/greedo's eye before we end up toasted. The effectiveness of a snipe beats out other weapons in the first instant of combat every time, at any distance.

3b: All other weapons feel very good on their projectile speeds at this stage of the game, but proj's seems excessive, it's too fast now which greatly reduces the ability to interact with it's latent weaknesses (single shot, meaning they get a single chance vs your rapid fire). Reducing projectile rifle's bullet speed would return some measure of interactivity between sniper and opponent as far as movement goes, further promote their role as a marksman role, and won't hinder their lethality when landing shots. They would still be kings of the instant a fight starts but they'd be avoidable or moreso than currently. This change would ultimately help bridge the gap between offense and defense by allowing offense a better chance in corridors, in addition to bringing the weapon back into line.
 
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Proj on it's own is a good weapon, but far from being overpowered. Since heroes and BHs don't have jetpacks, you can often predict where they will be camping, and either avoid them or just bait a shot and then suppress them. Dealing with snipers is no rocket science, especially considering you probably have a few saberists to take care of them for you.

However, I do see where people are coming from when complaining about snipers. I think this issue stems from the fact that Hero/BH is way too versatile for a "sniper" class. In my vision it would be great to move Proj from Hero to E.T. (single life only?), and remove it from BH altogether. That (coupled with a few buffs) would make Hero a mobile and elusive front-line class (which it should be, in my opinion), while still keeping Proj a powerful and fearsome weapon (maybe even bringing back shotgun sniping, since E.T. is pretty helpless vs sith close range). Imps don't need Proj since they already have EE-3 for a "mobile sniper" role and Ruptor for "campy sniper" role.
 
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I remember suggesting completely removing proj and leaving the sniping job to Mando/ARC, just make them sharpshooters instead of snipers. You'd probably have to change the arc sniper mode a bit though.
Disruptor's fine because it requires some sort of a setup so you can't run around with it.
 

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pew pew
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Huh, I honestly like the idea of flat-out removing proj from Open. Does proj fill any important balance role such that it would break anything if it were removed? Anti wook/sbd? The role of letting one good player kill a lot of bad players by playing well? :p

But realistically it would probably frustrate too many loyal players if proj were removed. It is a fun weapon to use.
 
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To be honest?

I'd like to see Deka, SBD & Wook reworked before the proj is changed. The proj can allow a good sniper to get a few frags but it doesn't allow him to take out a whole team (unless that team is bad), it's made overpowered when it has a team supporting it, since you can't really counter it with 5 other people covering him.

Deka for example though, while it does require a skill investment and a different playstyle from any other class, rewards this learning process with one of the most overpowered classes by miles, You need 2 EMPs to even just barely counter it, Ions do nothing. PLX does nothing. The class can absorb an insane amount of punishment and simply roll away, if it is supported by a competent team, it's pretty much unkillable.

I mean, watch Q-11 play sometime. Sure he's developed the skill level to play it well, but it's also impossible to counter 1v1 outside of clever Jedi play at which point there's way too much reward for the skill investment. We had a few games against him on Commtower the other night and he was absorbing fire from 3+ clones at once and still gunning them down before the shield went down. It takes way too many shots to deal damage that doesn't regenerate.

Part of the reason why I think Hero should have a Thermal Detonator and not BH. I mean, why does a class that is on the defense 99% of the time have a grenade designed to dislodge a defense?

If anything, reduce the travel speed of the proj, add some travel time to the disruptor (fuck hitscan) and reduce the rate of fire but beef the damage on the M5's scoped firemode so it functions as the reb equivalent 'marksman' weapon to the EE-3
 
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pew pew
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I think EMPLX one-shots Dekas, although good luck landing that if the deka is supported by a Sith.

Incidentally, an ARC can have five EMPs, for if you REALLY need to dislodge a deka.

(I don't have a stance on whether Deka is or isn't OP, I just like exploring counterplay.)

I don't see a point to adding travel time to ruptor. It already afaik has a delay between when you let go of M1 and when it actually fires, incurring a "travel time" at any range.
 
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Issue becomes that on maps like DOTF - you get to setup before the attackers, at which point it's just a hitscan rifle so as long as your aim is on point, you get a kill unless the person peeking is a wook. Even a leg shot with a full charge is instadeath as some of the CE7 boys often prove.
 

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pew pew
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Sure, but it still has lead time (i THINK. I've never rigorously tested ruptor's "delay") so it's not as bad as the hitscan proj on commtower FA.

Also I have further Deka counterplay theory in mind but this probably isn't the thread for it. I still feel like Deka counterplay is underexplored, but to be fair I haven't played against Q-11 much if at all.
 

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pew pew
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You sound like you've never played sniper in mb2 at all tbh.
Almost true. There was literally one day where I was pretty good with ruptor but I still wasn't sure how the delay worked. From having messed with it I'm pretty sure it has a consistent delay, tho. But yeah, I don't snipe much, I can only pull it off if I'm feeling really focused and that's rare for some reason. If you have any actual critiques of anything I've said based on your sniper experience, please share emmmmmmm
 
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Hm? Have you played commtower FA? There's a "proj" that shoots hitscan bullets.
oooops my bad didn't read the fa part sorry. :confused:

Other people commented on that though and it just so wrong. Yes, proj was slower before v1(I think?) but you also had shotgun and good dodge back then
 
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I mean, as said, is there a reason why BH (a class on a team that defends on almost EVERY map) has access to the Thermal Detonator while the Hero does not? The TD is a weapon to dislodge defenders or push a position, why does the defending team have it and the attacking team does not?
 
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I mean, as said, is there a reason why BH (a class on a team that defends on almost EVERY map) has access to the Thermal Detonator while the Hero does not? The TD is a weapon to dislodge defenders or push a position, why does the defending team have it and the attacking team does not?
I think the main reason why BH's have TDs is because of lore.
 

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and replace the unique charging beep sound with Allahu Akbar, ehh?????? ehhhhhh?????????????????
 
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I mean, as said, is there a reason why BH (a class on a team that defends on almost EVERY map) has access to the Thermal Detonator while the Hero does not? The TD is a weapon to dislodge defenders or push a position, why does the defending team have it and the attacking team does not?

Only reason I can really see BH having one is because of lore, and because the devs thought that more variety = more diverse gameplay opportunities, and hell, weren't they right? I've been through so many funny situations where a TD has backfired or successfully wiped out an enemy team with a bad Jedi.

Both classes have a grenade, BH just has a bigger one that is arguably less useful than normal frags because if you're not good at rebounding nades off walls, there's a good chance it's going to backfire and get most of your team killed. Frags are much more useful in the long run, you get more of them, and they're easier to not murder yourself and your team with. Also a good chance it might explode and kill nothing, so that's your points wasted so, your loss, dickhead. Maybe you should have put those points into more darts.

but lol who cares about grenades amirite i just need those l33t proj kills wow look at my k/d 90/0 in 3 rounds lol u all suck cum bak wen u git on my level rekt kid
 
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