Opinions on dueling/duel mode

[DCM]

This is unorganized

Dueling
Dueling is terrible. It's only now after a small break from MB2 that I see every bit of fun has been sucked out of it and it's been transformed into something horrid.

Perks are horrible and need to be removed. They unbalance the gameplay and give perks that have no right being given. I switch my style to Purple and suddenly I take 35% less FP drains? I switch to red and suddenly I get a 40% resistance? The idea makes no sense. Remove Red and Purple's saber perks. These are not defensive styles, they are strong styles and, if perks are kept, should be given offensive perks. Gaining ACM for a perfect block or reducing the opponent's BP just further discourages offense in dueling, forcing everyone to be cautious.

Remove Kata BP-Drain immunity. Turns dueling into "let me just wait for you to finish that move )) ". Fact is, if I hit someone, they should lose BP. There's nothing special about "special moves" other than them having a pre-made animation, and thats how it should be looked at.

Offense has been ripped out of dueling and instead we now have "let me just stare at you, wait for you to attack and then counter". Nudge had to be removed because it caused lag issues and was never very well defined - it was just a happy accident at the time, but something needs to be made to replace this (OJP had a nice idea with power attacks allowing the direction to change - perhaps this but at the cost of extra BP, or being MBlocked disarming you whether or not you swingblock, or something). Red has lost all potency because its attacks are so easily perfect blocked, making it rely on counter attacking and it's cheap 3-hit combo to be of any use.

Purple and Cyan are horrible styles. It's clear why these were never in the main game and it's due to their attacks being so bad, especially cyan with it not knowing whether it wants to be fast or slow. Staff and Duals are also rubbish styles but these have been in since the beginning, and have a "woah looks cool!" factor, so I guess they are here to stay.

Duel Mode
Duel Mode is the worst thing to happen to dueling imo. I feel partially to blame as it was my implementation and never fully completed, but anyway.. Before Duel Mode, you had one life and if you died, you'd be waiting up to 4 or so minutes again to play. This was annoying, right? And that's what made it great. With one life, you made sure to put 110% into each and every duel because you knew if you didn't you would be spectating everyone. With Duel Mode it's now just 'meh I'm dead who cares' and from being on Duel servers, it's turned into FFA with very few people caring about it.
Suggestion: Remove timer completely. Allow spawning at any time. After death, there is a 1-2 minute timer - this does two things: 1) Encourages you to be careful with your duel. 2) Frees up the areas of duelists running all over the place. 1-2 minutes is long, but not so long that it becomes a nuisance.

Just to be clear - I am not having a go at anyone for this.Many of these were things agreed upon by the team when being developed and seemed to be good at the time. This is just my opinion as a mb2 player, and I think too much has been done, and some steps back are needed in simplifying and removing things that aren't immediately obvious to people in game.

TL;DR:
Remove Purple, Remove Cyan
Blue - Fast, defensive
Yellow - Medium, Medium
Red - Slow, offensive
Remove Perks, or at least make them a little better
Remove BP-drain resistance while in a special move
Remove Duel Mode or implement timer between death

 

[andrew]

Andrew just make sure you're playing on the right server, with the right people on.
A little hint: Look on the serverlist about who's online, and then think about joining.

"the right server, with the right people on" doesn't always happen when i want to duel, so i'd really rather not have the improvements made to mb2 dueling mode be erased just because people have some really odd ideas about motivation. either way, there's something really odd with assuming that duels aren't being taken seriously just because there's no pause in between. the current pblock/body hit indicators and the ease of continued dueling combined are probably the single greatest set of changes to mb2 dueling at any point in allowing people to quickly become better

no idea why 2 steps back have to be taken after a step forward

 

[agentoo8]

People always going to complain.
Dymbesh - you and hlev not liking the system does not constitute as the 'majority' of the dueling community, by the way. And besides - you change your mind on whether or not you like the system more than you change your gender affinity, so i don't know what to think tbh.

As long as the saber system isn't changed drastically, then that's ok. Only very little touch ups are needed and fine tuning. It's funny how most of those who have been dueling for years think the same, and its the relative newcomers who want a complete overhaul.

 

[hleV]

i have no idea why waiting after you die sounds like a good idea

Because during the waiting period I can do pushups as a punishment for being careless? And people could spectate others and learn a thing or two, without having to manually join spectators.

But yeah the fact the system is unbalanced as fuck could ruin it for people who use Yellow or so. Being punished for getting killed by a style which requires way less skill to be as effective as the one you use sucks, especially if you have to wait afterwards.

 

[Princess Dymbesh]

you change your mind on whether or not you like the system more than you change your gender affinity, so i don't know what to think tbh.

ROFL.

It's funny how most of those who have been dueling for years think the same, and its the relative newcomers who want a complete overhaul.

First off actually you're the only one thinking that way. As you can see sisi and sev agreed and are making changes.
Second, since when am i or HleV a newcomer?
Just because you've played 11 years and i came a few years after you doesn't mean i don't know about what i speak off.
I've been playing this game way enough to know about what was good in this game and what not, and people agree on that.

 

[agentoo8]

I am in favour of some changes. I am not in favour of an overhaul. Learn to read the differences.
You're a nuisance to most people to be honest. If you didn't know, I have agreed with many changes Sev has put forward and have offered my own suggestions. I want SOME changes to the saber system, but to suggest that it is in need of an overhaul is an insult as this is by large the best system we have.

 

[andrew]

Because during the waiting period I can do pushups as a punishment for being careless? And people could spectate others and learn a thing or two, without having to manually join spectators.

really cant see these things being used as any sort of justification

 

[hleV]

It's OK, you're a non-factor in any of this anyway. My first point was a joke, though.

 

[Princess Dymbesh]

You're a nuisance to most people to be honest. I

Thank you, i live up to that affirmation.

this is by large the best system we have.

You need glasses, m8.

 

[andrew]

It's OK, you're a non-factor in any of this anyway. My first point was a joke, though.

why are a lot of the top eu duelists so aggressive and rude

 

[agentoo8]

Thank you, i live up to that affirmation.

You need glasses, m8.

You've played through 2 builds, I don't think you have much scope to compare with "m8"

 

[Princess Dymbesh]

You've played through 2 builds, I don't think you have much scope to compare with "m8"

The "i've played longer then you so your opinion doesn't hold a ground" attitude won't work anymore M8
Plus i've played about 5 builds, get your facts straight!

 

[hleV]

You've played through 2 builds, I don't think you have much scope to compare with "m8"

He got decent in both of those builds. It's unreasonable to dismiss his opinion about one being better than the other only because he didn't play 3+ builds (or maybe he did and you're just full of shit, idc).

But then you're both idiots and should be ignored by the rest.

 

[Perion]

Hai, fun thing to do.
Go to your local pet store and ask for a cow, honestly just see their faces xd

 

[Princess Dymbesh]

But then you're both idiots and should be ignored by the rest.

True words, never spoken :,) i love you hlev<3

Hai, fun thing to do.
Go to your local pet store and ask for a cow, honestly just see their faces xd

Brb, gonna go to my pet shop and ask for an angus cow :3.

 

[Helix]

NONONO GTFO FROM THIS THREAD. THERE'S ALREADY ONE THREAD FOR THIS, DON'T START THROWING SHIT AT EACH OTHER IN THIS ONE.

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

I wouldn't go this excessive even though I do largely share similar concerns. I am happy to have Purple and Cyan in, they look interesting and allow players more variety. Same goes for Staff and Duals. Removing them at this point would just be horrendous. I love them all for the variety they give in both game modes.

Reducing the effect perks have would go a long way to make them feel less bothersome. Rather than being a very prominent feature, it should be a small nuance that can give a top player the edge if utilized perfectly.

Duel mode seems quite fun as is, but I'd put in duel challenging from JAplus so all other players disappear from the map for the duration of the fight. The death timer could be introduced as something optional for server owners to choose. Some sort of tournament mode could be interesting as well.

 

[SeV]

Duel mode seems quite fun as is, but I'd put in duel challenging from JAplus so all other players disappear from the map for the duration of the fight. The death timer could be introduced as something optional for server owners to choose. Some sort of tournament mode could be interesting as well.

These are additions I wouldn't mind at all. A server with 16+ people all dueling in dotf hangar can cause FPS to drop quite significantly, not to mention the amount of space available and people sometimes colliding mid-duel. As long as non-duelers are able to see duelers then that's good. We don't want to completely ruin the dueling atmosphere ^_^ I would however, sacrifice some 'atmosphere' for higher fps on very populated servers. Besides, when you're dueling you generally dont want distractions in the form of other players. I'm sure hlev will be against this though, since he won't be able to mario people mid-duel anymore

Honestly, it makes sense to me if we put an infinite timer on duel mode + 1 min respawn time and the japlus challenge feature. Ofc you'd still be able to duel outside of the challenge mode. It's just something extra for dedicated ppl who want to avoid being interrupted by lamers (Hey guise we found a solution to the lamer problem!)
That would make for an interesting duel mode. It would provide a little bit of a jamp FFA feeling and allow people to just chill and talk in-between deaths which I think would appeal to a large majority of players. This way the game would feel more social, which is good. Removing the timer from duel mode would also mean no more annoying time-interruptions

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Can we combine some of the duel maps into one large map so you have different areas/scenes to duel in.

The duel maps still remain as the least utilized of all the maps. Which if unfortunate as their quality is superior to the constant grind of duel_dotf and jt.

 

[SeV]

Indeed there are some nice dueling maps out there that simply aren't utilized. One of the main things used to be time-wasting trolls, but this is a non-issue now and would be even less of a problem if we introduced infinite time + 1m respawn and free join on duel servers.

There are some Jamp maps like the {O} Jedi temple map from like 2004 which has many different dueling rooms. A dojo, a dark-room, a water-room, a glass arena, pillars, a votj-like arena, a floating platform... A map like that, designed for dueling with a central hub where ppl can challenge eachother and just duel normally like on duel_dotf, but go to side-rooms like saber_training, would be very cool. Mappers? Any takers?

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

All mappers are gunners....didn't you know