Official 1.4.3 Feedback thread

[LoU]

We will be happy to hear some feedback from you. What have we done wrong/good and... WHY. We want you to share your feeling about new version, but remember Feedback doesn't mean to go rage mode. So keep conversation at least on decent level.

If you want to tell us how much you love us or hate us, then feel free to do it here:
https://community.moviebattles.org/forums/dev-req/



CHANGELOG (23-10-16)

Gameplay

• Pistol changes:
  • Basic pistol:
    • Change: Level 2 secondary fire is now a charged shot which ramps up from 26 damage to 48 damage in 5 seconds.
    • Change: Level 3 primary mode primary fire damage decreased from 48 to 40 (also affects FP drains).
      
    • Change: Level 3 primary mode secondary fire is now a charged shot which ramps up from 26 damage to 60 damage in 2.5 seconds, afterwards it no longer drains ammo nor increases damage until 5 seconds of charging where it auto-fires.
    • Change:Level 3 secondary mode secondary fire rapid shot burst now costs 4 ammo.
  • Westar pistol:
    • Change: Level 2 secondary fire charged shot ramps up from 28 damage to 53 damage in 5 seconds.
    • Change: Level 3 charged shots ramp up from 28 damage to 53 damage in 5 seconds for both pistols.
    • Change: FA-only: Akimbo pistols' base damage is now 40 instead of 48 and their charged shot ramps up from 28 damage to 80 damage.
• Dodge mechanics overhaul:
  • Change: Dodge is now an active ability manually triggered by holding class special 1.
    
  • Change: Costs 4/6/10.
  • Change: No cooldowns on activation/deactivation/reactivation.
  • Change: Runs on a separate resource of its own, Dodge Points, which are displayed below the botton right hud.
  • Change: While active, 50 DP drain per second, thus full bar in 2 seconds (if the player is in a state where he can dodge, otherwise no drain).
  • Change: Passive regeneration while not active nor poisoned, full bar in 15 seconds when running or jumping, 10 seconds otherwise.
  • Change: Basic DP cost levels 5, 10, 15, 25, 50, 75 for dodging projectiles.
  • Change: Dodge Level 1: base standing/crouching still costs 15, 25, 50 (legs, torso, neck/head).
  • Change: Dodge Level 2: standing/crouching has 1 level less worth of costs, walking has the same cost as above.
  • Change: Dodge Level 3: standing/crouching now has 2 levels less worth of costs, walking 1 level less, running/jumping same cost as 2 lines above.
  • Change: Sniper shots increase the DP cost level by 1 compared to all other projectiles.
  • Change: Can't dodge while scoping or poisoned.
  • Change: Starting from 400 distance, the closer the enemy is the costlier dodge becomes (linearly), until reaching 160 distance (80 for dodge level 3) where dodging is impossible (costs above 100 DP).
  • Change: Ability to move freely while dodging, ability to dodge again while already in a dodge animation (does not replay an animation but still drains DP), ability to attack freely while dodging.
• Dash changes:
  • Change: Dash Level 1 now costs 44 stamina (33 before).
  • Change: Dash Level 2 now costs 33 stamina (25 before).
• Quick Throw:
  • Change: Now assigned to new command /ability1.
• FA tweaks:
  • Change: Dexterity cooldown is now no longer activated when trying to roll/dive while attacking with a saber (in FA).
  • Change: Dash/Dodge can now be given to any class in FA.
  • Change: In FA, when a class has Saber Defense with a saber, or Stamina, the regeneration rate of BP and Stamina prevails over the regeneration rate of Dash; when a FA class has regenerating fuel, its regenerating rate prevails over all others (all of them share the same bar).
  • Change: In FA only, in order to prevent some ability conflicts, Dexterity and Dash are assigned to /ability1 (Dexterity is given priority over Dash at all times) whenever the class has access to flamethrower, wrist laser, saber-out melee moves or tracking darts.
  • Change: In FA only, saber-out melee moves (note: jumpkicks with saber-out are still always activated via class special 2), gunkicks and tracking darts are assigned to /ability2 whenever the class has access to flamethrower or wrist laser.
  • Change: In FA only, poison darts are assigned to /ability3 whenever the class has access to dodge, mandalorian rocket or stamina.

• Droideka/SBD tweaks:
  • Change: Droideka power management now regenerates 20 armor for 1 ammo and 2 ammo for 10 armor instead of 10 armor for 1 ammo and 1 ammo for 10 armor.
  • Change: Ion blobs no longer disable Droideka shields, launched pulse grenades now stun SBDs/Droidekas and disable shields of Droidekas for slightly longer, manually thrown pulse grenades now stun and disable shields of Droidekas for slightly longer.
  • Change: Droideka FP drains reduced by a 0.8x factor.
• General Jedi/Sith changes:
  • Change: Cyan/Purple/Staff/Dual styles are reworked into "specialist" styles, more powerful than the basic Blue/Yellow/Red. Fast Styles, Medium Styles and Strong Styles thus now all have the following cost: 8/8/6.
  • Change: Cyan style now has a synergy with Saber Deflect. Buying Saber Deflect with Cyan makes deflecting no longer require tapping attack but simply holding attack, with no FP cost. With Saber Deflect level 1, Cyan can deflect 1 shot every 750ms and cannot deflect at close range; level 2 can deflect 1 shot every 500ms and can deflect at close range; level 3 can deflect 1 shot every 250ms and can deflect at close range.
  • Change: Purple is now granted Q3. Q3 is the ability to automatically deflect projectiles while attacking without holding block. Q3 can be disabled for a swing by holding Class Special 1 during this swing. Q3 has good synergy with Saber Defense 3 because Saber Defense 3 reduces the extra FP drain on shots that are blocked while attacking (without Defense 3, the FP drain is doubled on these shots for both Q3 and swingblocks; with Defense 3, the FP drain is no longer doubled for swingblocks nor Q3 non-swingblocks).
  • Change: Duals now deal 360 damage per swing instead of 260. Duals no longer have an increased blocking arc.
  • Change: Staff now have a 270° blocking arc against projectiles (including thrown sabers) and 300° against saber swings.
  • Change: Cyan now has the same forward running animation as Staff, and Purple has the same forward running animation as Duals.
  • New: Nudge is now enabled by default on spawn and can be toggled on/off via /nudgetoggle.
  • New: Blocking animations are now triggered on saber/saber collisions.
  • Change: The duration of the flinch stagger is now dependent on the damage received.
  • Fix: MBlock deflecting will no longer drain FP when the deflect cooldown is still active.
    
  • FP drain and regeneration changes:
    • Change: 1.0x FP regen when unable to auto-block (saber off, knocked down, idle, etc.).
    • Change: 0.7x FP regen and 1.2x FP drains when able to auto-block but not holding altattack.
    • Change: 0.2x FP regen and 0.4x FP drains when able to auto-block and holding altattack.
    • Change: FP drains are capped at 40 when holding altattack and 80 when not holding altattack.
• Saber vs Saber changes:
  • Change: Non-PBs now result all the time in clash sound effects on a saber/saber collision, instead of alternating between bodyhit/clash sfx depending on non-PB/PB.
  • Change: Perfect Block (PB) no longer combo-breaks.
  • Change: Parries now drain BP equal to half the amount of a bodyhit.
  • New: Perfect Parry (Blue crosshair and BP bar indicators): done by matching the incoming swing (quadrant-wise) with the matching outgoing swing. Will negate parry BP drains.
  • Change: Manual Block (Mblock) now allows for combo-breaking vs swingblock and also deals 6 BP damage to the attacker when successful. Failing a Mblock (vs any swing) drains BP (4 vs Fast styles, 6 vs Medium styles (and Purple), and 8 vs Red).
  • New style-specific perks/features (these replace all previous ones):
    • Change: Blue style: Loses 1 ACC when PB'd except against Blue/Cyan. Drains 6 BP from attackers on PB (including against chained consecutive swings).
    • Change: Yellow style: Doesn't suffer from Mblock BP drain on failing.
    • Change: Red style: No BP drain from being Mblocked on a swingblock. Causes a stagger on the third consecutive bodyhit.
    • Change: Cyan style: Combo-breaks other styles on a perfect parry.
    • Change: Purple style: +1 ACC on PB.
    • Change: Dual style: Consecutive swings deal 0.75x damage instead of 0.5x.
    • Change: Staff style: Successfully timing and matching movement directions with a Mblock counts as a Pblock, even with incorrect camera aim. Staggers the opponent on a successful Mblock vs a swingblock.

Servers

• Change: SMOD mute now also blocks voice_cmd, gestures and name changes.

UI

• New: Added new ability keys (moviebattles) and nudge toggle (weapons) to controls menu.

Models

• New: Added Grand Admiral Thrawn to Commanders (thrawn/default) and Outcast's Tavion to Sith (tavion/default). Tweaked TFA Han's taunts.
  
• Change: Re-enabled a few alternate skins for existing Sith models (alora/default, darthmaul/default_robed).
  
• Fix: Swamptrooper model's footsteps are no longer silent.
• Fix: Updated seasonal hat positioning for model changes after v1.3.2.
• Fix: Some minor shader errors.

Official Maps
All (where applicable)

• Change: Re-enabled charge shot on FA classes with akimbo pistols.

mb2_cloudcity

• Fix: Blocked area allowing players to escape the map.
• Fix: Minor VIS adjustments to tunnel between Eastern Commons and South Lounge.

mb2_duel_cc

• New: Added carbonite freezing sequence. Activated by using one of the control panels.

mb2_deathstar

• Change: The FA has been redesigned to make every class useful instead of a few dominating ones and many weak classes. For example, C3PO, R2D2, and the prisoner have been buffed. The Imperial team has also been changed to have as many unique classes as Rebels.
  
• New: Two FA-specific features have been added for this FA. First, Force Power sound overwrites now exist (currently only available for Sense / Deadly Sight) and are used for C3PO. Second, a special classflag for making a class run faster while in melee was added for the Imperial Pilot.
• Fix: A shallow pit of death trigger allowed survival in rare circumstances.

mb2_duel_office

• Fix: Added clipping to portion of ceiling that may have made it possible to escape map.

mb2_jakku

• New: Original map by Plasma based on the village attack at the start of The Force Awakens.
• New: Capture Point Objective: The final objective on this map requires the attacking team to stand within the village square to capture it. The defending team may stop the capture by also standing within the capture point.

mb2_undeadstar

• New: Reimagined map by Plasma. Will our heroes manage to survive the horrors that await?

Unofficial Maps
All (where applicable)

• Change: Re-enabled charge shot on FA classes with akimbo pistols.

mb2_cmp_arena

• Change: Split soundset for C3PO / Battledroid hybrid models.
  
• Fix: Restored classic FA icons.

sm3_venom

• Fix: Spiderman and Venom now use the correct model.

ultimate_showdown

• Fix: Spiderman and Venom now use the correct model.
• Fix: Resolved some shader errors.

Changed Files ( Server downloads ) ( Linux OpenJK server lib ) ( ARM OpenJK build )

--MBII
031_MovieGameMappack.pk3
FAMBModels.pk3
MB_Effects.pk3
mb2_cmp_assets2.pk3
mb2_cmp_assets3.pk3
mb2_cloudcity.pk3
mb2_deathstar.pk3
mb2_duel_office.pk3
mb2_jakku.pk3
mb2_undeadstar.pk3
mb2_um_assets3.pk3
MBAssets2.pk3
MBAssets3.pk3
MBHilts.pk3
MBII.pk3
MBII_Mac.pk3
zz_MBModels2.pk3
cgamei386.so
jampgamei386.so
uii386.so

Changelog Legend
New - New feature or addition to the game.
Change - Changes to the game.
Fix - Bug fix.
Remove - Removed feature.
Feature - New feature name

 

[MoonmanMoonman]

Why is sense 2 suddenly shit?

 

[Fang]

Can we bring back Projectile Shotgun

 

[StarWarsGeek]

First impressions on jedi vs gunner changes:

• Running FP drain/regen changes seem okay, but blocking FP drain/regen changes are annoying both to play with and fight against. It has slowed gameplay a bit IMO. Jedi can tank for quite some time by just standing still and holding block. If you want to regen FP you either need to hide behind cover and turn your saber off, or strafe rapidly so you can still autoblock while regening at a more reasonable pace (without actually moving too much so you don't get TKed from behind).
• In combination with the blocking FP drain decrease, cyan's auto deflect seems rather OP right now. It's extremely easy just to get in someone's face and hold block+crouch until they die, and there's not much they can do to counter besides risking melee spin kick.
  
• Purple's perk vs guns seems good. Saves you in a pinch as saberist, but still fairly easy to counter with good aim as gunner.
• Staff's perk is fine.
• Dual's perk is very underwhelming. I don't see any reason to buy duals in open. Twice as many points just for some bonus dmg, but it's still outdone by red for half the points. More bonus damage isn't the solution though, needs some other unique perk.
• No more proj shotgun without being shot by something else first is fantastic. Proj shotgunning was one of the silliest things in the game, as long as you remembered to not reload right away after a shot there wasn't really much risk involved for an instakill.

I'd like to see deflect become a cyan-only ability given how, like Q3, it forces gunners to change tactics and should have a visual indicator. Also, I've always found the "spam m1 while holding m2 to deflect" mechanic very silly, there's no timing/skill involved in practice. Balancing deflect around one "level" for one style with the new FP drain/regen mechanics would be much easier. For example: using cyan to accurately deflect shots costs more FP (1.5x multiplier or something) than just holding block to deflect.

Hero changes seem good, seems more on par with BH now. Still getting used to playing with new dodge, quite hard to use for anything other than peeking unless your ping is very low. I think it may cost a bit too many points for how often it actually ends up being useful, but I need to play around with it some more.

Dodge should use the dash bar, and dash should be given dodge's current counter (or simply put on a cooldown meter). Dash points are fairly easy to keep track of, and I find myself never needing to look at the bar for it. Dodge points are a vital resource that are used up and regen quickly, and it would be much more convenient if they were displayed on the regular class bar. The tiny resource counter in the bottom right is too small and out of the way to keep track of dodge points easily. I know this change would cause minor FA conflicts when dodge is given to certain classes other than Hero/ET/Commander, but similar FA conflicts already exist with class bars. Such conflicts have always been worked around by FA authors, and can occasionally be used to create interesting unique mechanics (jetpack powered by stamina, BP powered by regenerating fuel, etc.).

Now that ability1 is acting as a pseudo-class-special-3 for Hero quick throw, it would be nice for Mando wrist laser to share the same key. This would make flamethrower+wristlaser mando builds reasonable to use.

 

[Jediknight Fou]

Like i said in the other thread i really like the new update.

1. Cyan is great with deflecting and i personally like the staff running animation.

Purple is good too, Q3 is great and not too op, after some kills i thought i can slaughter more, then i met appo.^^
The dualanimation looks weird i woud change it to the staffanimation too, and like i suggested before, change the attackanimation to staff like in fa, there was a style which used staffattackani but with one blade. Would look better, since he swings so slow and with one hand it looks weird.

I like that we can block longer now.
The fp regain is fine, took me a bit to get used to it.

2. The map undeadstar is great, Plasma needs a medal for this, maybe you plan to make more alternate versions of other maps? (please at least a alternate version of dotf cant see normal dotf anymore sometimes T.T)

Jakku looks good, but its a bit laggy. (I play on a toaster)

3. Outcast Tavion, i wanted her into this since 0.9 finally i dont need to put her in manually.^^​

No more proj shotgun without being shot by something else first is fantastic. Proj shotgunning was one of the silliest things in the game, as long as you remembered to not reload right away after a shot there wasn't really much risk involved for an instakill.

Projshotgun was where for example a hero used dash and was face to face to sith and could instakill him? That was retarded, im happy its removed.

I'd like to see deflect become a cyan-only ability

Why should deflect be a cyan only ability?
If i use yellow i want have the option to get deflect too and its very expensive to get both, cyan and yellow now, i think its not a good idea.

 

[Preston]

Bring back proj shotgun. It's not hard to see it coming, and it stopped mindless running jedi that just held w once the match started. And it was actually fun.

 

[Noob]

I just want status updates to return

 

[Ragequit]

Something in sabersystem goes wrong.

All servers (duels) are empty

Open? I don't like open. I'm here for saber fights. Only arc with rocket launcher in open (for fun).

What goes wrong?
1. Combo-parry fest is here! That's wrong. Spam parry parry spam low bp died. Now you can fight with closed eyes
2. Perfect-parry works silly and brings more random in fights
3. Semi-PB role? 3rd leg. Choose one: perfect parry [fixed] or semi-pb
4. Nothing can stop spammer instead of PB's combo break (even slap if you use staff, it's hard to use perk while nudge)
5. Nudge still in game. Annoying thing that makes so many flashes and chaos in fight
6. Slap cooldown is too short. Slap fights right here
7. Cyan wd swing still too fast to react.

Another things seems to be good

But 1.4 was better
IMHO

 

[Taimurodo]

So far, my only complaint is the saber system.

List of reasons:

1. PBs do not cancel combos anymore: Seriously, now with the removal of this mechanic this new system just encourages spam, PBing isn't as rewarding as before, because before it was a steady battle of building ACC and ACM then finishing off with combos, now it's who can dish out the most combos before one of the combatants drops; Where as before, PBlocking can actually change the course of the battle and can save you from a barrage of attacks, this made standing against duals, staff, or rapid attack cyans possible, now it your only hope is to either PBlock all attacks in the combo, or slap (which doesn't always work).

2. Point costs. I have no idea why this was implemented, I mean I am a bit biased on this because my builds use duals and depending on the playstyle, cyan and purple with their other counter parts (Ex: Cyan and blue, or purple and red). This absolutely forced me to rethink my builds. Although really with the implementation of the gunner perks with purple and cyan, I can somewhat see why their costs where uped, but at best they should only have been increased by 2 instead of 8, but duals/staff (again I do main duals, so a bit biased but hear me out) don't really have anything to really much to justify an increase in their cost. Really all you get is being able to spam more easily, but that was always a thing before, and costing only 2 points for duals or staff is already a good price to pay anyways. (yes duals now have more BP damage in combos but that brings me to my next point.)

3. Designed for spam. With all these changes spam is now a more viable tactic then before. Now with duals, people are just going to throw attacks mindlessly and they would only have to worry about slaps, sidewacks, and backwacks, and maybe Mblocks, (Although depending on the duelist, it can be rare). While this does seem to justify the point increase, it just takes away from the intricacies of dueling (Again another biased opinion, I seem to have a lot of those now do I.)

And on a different note. Recently there was a poll (still is at the time of this post) about nerfing sense. Well, I noticed sense 2 was nerfed, without any notification. What is this? Why was it nerfed, what was the point of the poll if this was going to be slipped in without saying. Before sense 2 would highlight players on the minimap and give a fuzzy blue aura to all players both friend and foe alike and last for a good 4-5 seconds; now it only gives friends an aura. This effectively made sense 2 about as useful as sense 1, with the addition of seeing highlighted friends and lasting for 4-5 seconds. Apparently according to Tempest, he told me in game that this was a bug and not intended.

While I haven't been here very long (Started in 1.3), I still feel like 1.4.2 was a better build than this one for sabers, despite what veterans say about 1.4 in general.

Do any veterans here have anything to say about my points? Do you agree or disagree? Anything to add?

 

[NonvirginShaft]

This patch sucks for vets

 

[Perion]

I in a sense like the patch, getting used to it after a day of playing duels but it dosn't feel at all polished whereas v1.4 or even v1.3 for that matter actually did which allowed for a wide range of user style variety and versatility, but due to this version, whilst i agree with some changes such as pblock being back to pre-1.4, all the other changes in conjunction with this make the whole duelling community a spam fest as said by Taimurodo. I think this update has been a step in the wrong direction and there really should of been more testing in the duelling area for balancing issues, previously I could of happily had a duel with another player for a good one to three or four minutes depending on the skillset of the opponent, however such experiences seem to have been technically abolished where again, it's more a spamfest than anything and has thus made many of the old and new players 'leave' temporarily alike with every update however this time being more severe having changes that are game-breaking.

- I don't really know the changes inside and out I just know that after playing extensively in the duelling area that this update is definetly as I say a step in the wrong direction and it should have been kept alike v1.4 but with some of the benefits of previous versions.

 

[DaloLorn]

Arguably, duel pacing has been drastically improved - however, Tairumodo raises some pretty good points. PBing entire combos is a nightmare, and I find that the mblock-dependent perks (staff and yellow) depend strongly on actually being able to mblock in the first place. After 1.4, I'm having trouble adjusting to the concept of having to swing as often as my opponent instead of breaking his combos and building up ACM with a (poorly-executed, given my offensive skills) counterattack.

That being said, Stassin pointed out a few things in the release thread, about some changes that might make mblocking and combo-PBing easier to execute. Maybe things will work better once the rest of the planned changes start rolling out.

On an unrelated note, I'm glad to see that saberists are now more reliable counters to droidekas. While I've started to figure out a few things about ARCs (namely using the M5's scope), I do prefer sabers to pulse grenades by a wide margin.

 

[Starushka]

- Dodge, a bit too hard to execute, not very intuitive.
I would like it to be not an active ability but rather a mode you can toggle. You press class special 1 to enter dodge mode. While in dodge mode you change your stance to something like this https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/mt/2016/01/solo/lead_large.jpg?1452549010
and only able to use your e11 primary or pistol. In this mode your movement speed decreased to commander speed, to limit your offensive capabilities. Dodge points are remains as it is right now. Only thing there is no drains each second, drains only on successful dodge.
Also unable to dash in dodge mode and shared stamina meter with dash (since you can't use dash in dodge mode anyway).
After you enter/exit dodge mode there should be a few seconds cooldown on reactivation.

+ passive ability to dodge any projectile
- decreased movement speed (commander)
- can't use sniper rifle
- can't use e11 secondary
- unable to dash

 

[SeV]

My opinion on sabering in 1.4.3 so far:

Parrying changes seem to force you to choose between mutual BP destruction or taking an entire combo and trying to find a moment to PB+counter. Once again we've gone from 1.4 which favoured skill, to a system that favors a yolo noob mentality. I don't have a problem with parries draining some BP, but right now with the removal of PB combo breaking it feels kind of bad and restrictive. The flow and pace and rhythm of dueling has been disrupted for the worse, I think. It's like you've given all the chips to the attacker and left the defender with very little to work with. If yellow PB perk still existed that would atleast be one tool, but even that is gone. Alot of things I liked about 1.4 disappear (PB combo breaking rewarding skill, attacking requiring skill) and things I disliked about 1.3 seem to be making a return in 1.4.3. (Focus on mindless attacking)

It's all well and good to say that there may be changes in the future that make this system better, but right now those changes don't exist, which makes one wonder why this was pushed out as an update. I can honestly say I prefer 1.4 over 1.4.3 and I doubt that'll change even with 100 hours of playing. This is because I can stand behind the fundamental idea behind 1.4 much more than what seems to be the fundamental idea behind 1.4.3.

To elaborate: 1.4 focus is on rewarding skillful play and finesse, not yolo keyboard smashing. With 1.4.3 it feels like dueling has taken a step back/in the wrong direction. One step forward two steps back? Why?

---

So what do I think can be done?

First of all, I want PB combo breaking back ofc. Failing that, make 2 consecutive PBs cause a short stagger ala staff mblock. Cmon, it takes skill to double PB, give me some reward for outskilling my opponent ffs. I'm tired of the 'let's reward noobs and nerf skill' mentality. Or let's make it so that the things that require skill are nigh useless. We're gonna force ppl to mindlessly attack and go for mutual destruction because someone complained that they can't kill eachother, and in the process we're gonna throw dueling finesse out the window. I say no to that, so double PB = Stagger?

Second, in this system if PBs aren't gonna combo break, then I'd like them to deal some BP damage instead, regardless of style. Otherwise, how are you going to fight a spammer? You can't parry him because that just drains your BP, so your safest bet is to retreat pathetically and try to hit as many PB+counters as possible, which is already hard enough as is. Failing that, try to turn the tables and get a spam going on him instead. - This is precisely what I wanted to avoid in 1.4 but now in 1.4.3 this kind of meta is making a return. No. Just no.
If parries drain BP, why shouldn't PB also drain BP from the one getting PB'd? Think a bit about implementing this. Perhaps they don't drain much, but a little drain is better than nothing and goes a bit towards rewarding skill.

Third, return the -1ACC PB perk to yellow. Compared to blue's PB bp drain perk, yellows mblock perk is pathetic. It hardly ever gets used and one is lucky to get 1 use out of it per duel, let alone 2 or 3. If you think it's overpowered then consider how easy it is to attack vs how hard it is to PB and MB. If the opponent gets PB'd enough for the -1ACC perk to feel OP to some ppl, then it's their own fault is it not? I like this perk alot because it rewards skill. Limit it to 1 ACC per combo if you must. That along with combo breaking stagger on 2nd consecutive PB will go some way towards alleviating my annoyance with yellow atm.

Blue is great, but I don't wanna be stuck on one stance and yellow has always been my favorite. To revert yellow to approximate 1.3 style yellow is just cruel after the elegance of 1.4. Playing blue feels rewarding because it takes skill to hit the PBs and to attack properly due to the 2 hit limit forcing u to nudge hit alot. Yellow on the other hand, feels very unrewarding.

Purple feels a little weak vs blue. The question is, are we gonna rock paper scissors it or are we gonna fix it somehow? Right now I dunno how to accomplish this. Cyan and purple have never been my focus and I've never rly liked them.

As for red style, I'd like to bring back 1.4 red style. It feels like 3rd hit stagger was nerfed too hard. I liked it as a distinguishing feature of red.

--

In all honesty though, I'd prefer reverting to 1.4 but that kind of talk gets us nowhere, which is why I've attempted to throw some ideas out there to fix 1.4.3.
This is just a blurp, but it's meant to throw ideas out there for discussion so we can get the ball rolling on what to do next.

 

[Ragequit]

My opinion on sabering in 1.4.3 so far:

Parrying changes seem to force you to choose between mutual BP destruction or taking an entire combo and trying to find a moment to PB+counter. Once again we've gone from 1.4 which favoured skill, to a system that favors a yolo noob mentality. I don't have a problem with parries draining some BP, but right now with the removal of PB combo breaking it feels kind of bad and restrictive. The flow and pace and rhythm of dueling has been disrupted for the worse, I think. It's like you've given all the chips to the attacker and left the defender with very little to work with. If yellow PB perk still existed that would atleast be one tool, but even that is gone. Alot of things I liked about 1.4 disappear (PB combo breaking rewarding skill, attacking requiring skill) and things I disliked about 1.3 seem to be making a return in 1.4.3. (Focus on mindless attacking)

It's all well and good to say that there may be changes in the future that make this system better, but right now those changes don't exist, which makes one wonder why this was pushed out as an update. I can honestly say I prefer 1.4 over 1.4.3 and I doubt that'll change even with 100 hours of playing. This is because I can stand behind the fundamental idea behind 1.4 much more than what seems to be the fundamental idea behind 1.4.3.

To elaborate: 1.4 focus is on rewarding skillful play and finesse, not yolo keyboard smashing. With 1.4.3 it feels like dueling has taken a step back/in the wrong direction. One step forward two steps back? Why?

---

So what do I think can be done?

First of all, I want PB combo breaking back ofc. Failing that, make 2 consecutive PBs cause a short stagger ala staff mblock. Cmon, it takes skill to double PB, give me some reward for outskilling my opponent ffs. I'm tired of the 'let's reward noobs and nerf skill' mentality. Or let's make it so that the things that require skill are nigh useless. We're gonna force ppl to mindlessly attack and go for mutual destruction because someone complained that they can't kill eachother, and in the process we're gonna throw dueling finesse out the window. I say no to that, so double PB = Stagger?

Second, in this system if PBs aren't gonna combo break, then I'd like them to deal some BP damage instead, regardless of style. Otherwise, how are you going to fight a spammer? You can't parry him because that just drains your BP, so your safest bet is to retreat pathetically and try to hit as many PB+counters as possible, which is already hard enough as is. Failing that, try to turn the tables and get a spam going on him instead. - This is precisely what I wanted to avoid in 1.4 but now in 1.4.3 this kind of meta is making a return. No. Just no.
If parries drain BP, why shouldn't PB also drain BP from the one getting PB'd? Think a bit about implementing this. Perhaps they don't drain much, but a little drain is better than nothing and goes a bit towards rewarding skill.

Third, return the -1ACC PB perk to yellow. Compared to blue's PB bp drain perk, yellows mblock perk is pathetic. It hardly ever gets used and one is lucky to get 1 use out of it per duel, let alone 2 or 3. If you think it's overpowered then consider how easy it is to attack vs how hard it is to PB and MB. If the opponent gets PB'd enough for the -1ACC perk to feel OP to some ppl, then it's their own fault is it not? I like this perk alot because it rewards skill. Limit it to 1 ACC per combo if you must. That along with combo breaking stagger on 2nd consecutive PB will go some way towards alleviating my annoyance with yellow atm.

Blue is great, but I don't wanna be stuck on one stance and yellow has always been my favorite. To revert yellow to approximate 1.3 style yellow is just cruel after the elegance of 1.4. Playing blue feels rewarding because it takes skill to hit the PBs and to attack properly due to the 2 hit limit forcing u to nudge hit alot. Yellow on the other hand, feels very unrewarding.

Purple feels a little weak vs blue. The question is, are we gonna rock paper scissors it or are we gonna fix it somehow? Right now I dunno how to accomplish this. Cyan and purple have never been my focus and I've never rly liked them.

As for red style, I'd like to bring back 1.4 red style. It feels like 3rd hit stagger was nerfed too hard. I liked it as a distinguishing feature of red.

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In all honesty though, I'd prefer reverting to 1.4 but that kind of talk gets us nowhere, which is why I've attempted to throw some ideas out there to fix 1.4.3.
This is just a blurp, but it's meant to throw ideas out there for discussion so we can get the ball rolling on what to do next.

As far as I know (on practice) You can't win duels even if you makes PBs +semi-PBs when your opponent going to spam with style which has stronker BP drain than yours. Only hope is perfect parrys, but it works incorrectly and just randomly

P.S. Thank you again and again Agreed

 

[Taimurodo]

I pretty much agree and stand by with practically everything that SeV said.

 

[Stassin]

My opinion on sabering in 1.4.3 so far:

Think of it as if the main change that's going to complement these half-assed 1.4.3 changes are slowed down consecutive swings. Maybe they'll only be slowed down a very tiny bit but the main point is they will have complete transition anims instead of teleporting between directions, which makes seeing them coming (and thus PBing them) alot easier. In any case on this subject the ideas (removing nudge, perfect parry, removing pb combo-break and slowed down swings) actually come from Achilles (and Tempest) so maybe you should discuss with them. I also liked PB combo-break alot and without it, i don't think even with easier-to-PB-consecutive swings it would prevent spammy spammy spam. Though imo this idea of slowing swings down does have potential and it's rather been well accepted in beta from what little i've seen.

So, let me throw an idea of my own: how about bodyhits no longer give ACC, but PBs do ? For all styles. Maybe that can replace combo-break, slowed swings or not.

 

[Starushka]

Open mode is still the main mb2 mode, and i hope this will never change. When you trying to make some saber changes you have to keep in mind not only isolated 1 vs 1 honor duel scenario but first of all the rich arsenal of factors hidden in the open mode. Previous build had too much emphasis on duel mode, because of that we have lost the previous pace of gameplay in open mode. Right now, on the first glance, changes positively affect the gameplay.

 

[SeV]

Think of it as if the main change that's going to complement these half-assed 1.4.3 changes are slowed down consecutive swings. Maybe they'll only be slowed down a very tiny bit but the main point is they will have complete transition anims instead of teleporting between directions, which makes seeing them coming (and thus PBing them) alot easier. In any case on this subject the ideas (removing nudge, perfect parry, removing pb combo-break and slowed down swings) actually come from Achilles (and Tempest) so maybe you should discuss with them. I also liked PB combo-break alot and without it, i don't think even with easier-to-PB-consecutive swings it would prevent spammy spammy spam. Though imo this idea of slowing swings down does have potential and it's rather been well accepted in beta from what little i've seen.

So, let me throw an idea of my own: how about bodyhits no longer give ACC, but PBs do ? For all styles. Maybe that can replace combo-break, slowed swings or not.

Exactly. Even with slowed consecutive swings, if PBs are trivialized to the point that they don't rly matter much and that it's just expected that you PB a certain amount, then it really doesn't prevent a spammy playstyle at all. This is the reason for why we did combo breaking in teh first place and why I am once again making suggestions along that path.

The idea of slowing down transitions is interesting. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but this should be a stand-alone decision and not something to slap on as a patchwork fix. It would have to be tested, but anything that makes transitions clear instead of teleported is nice isn't it? It's better to see than to be blind.


Bodyhits no longer giving ACC but PBs giving ACC is an interesting idea but it seems counterintuitive. Would have to try it out to see how it feels as I can't imagine reliably how that would play out. So a bodyhit will drain 1 ACC and PBing will give 1 ACC? I'd honestly prefer if PBing drained ACC instead as that seems more intuitive. That means if you focus on defense, you can get a strong defense, and if you focus on attacking and accumulating ACC you can get strong ACM going. This seems like a more reasonable interplay of offense vs defense than tying attack to PB. What I'm suggesting is kind of what we had for yellow vs yellow in 1.4, which imo was very nice.

A system where you get ACC by attacking and bypassing PB (Attacking skillfully) and drain the opponents ACC by PBing (defending skillfully), seems more balanced. I rly think yellow vs yellow in 1.4 was a good example of this dynamic at its best, and I miss the -1ACC PBs.

 

[Taimurodo]

Oh and, one thing I noticed in the library is for lightsaber styles, the part where it would describe the staff style is cut... Or really it's better I should say, not there.

Just a heads up.