my 5 cents about the current build

[Gargos]

POISON DARTS:

Now that jedi is nerfed, I think it is time to balance this feature called poison.

Let us see what we have here: A poisonous dart that costs 5 points to get. Mainly used against jedi, stopping them from force regeneration. Also deals 2 health point dmg per tick, making the dmg 21 in total if no meditation. Rather easy to aim due to it being instant.

What irritates me the most is the fact that the dart deals rather much dmg while jedi has hardly any counter to NOT get hit by it. Bh spam makes it almost useless to play jedi when all you can do is go into the field and see so many bhs that their poisons combined are enough to kill you even if you meditated.

How would I fix this? Reduce the dmg made by darts to 1 (keep the dmg at 2 against any other class), to zero when meditating. Stopping force regen is already a big minus, and keeping the dmg at 1 per tick (OR even nerf it more and lose 1 hp every 2nd tick) still encourages the jedi to fallback to meditate. Having meditate to nullify the dmg completely would give low hp jedi a reasonable chance to survive.

WRIST LASER:

I like the new changes, it is taking the gun into right direction but right now it is worse than before. Sure it is instant shot but it is way too easy to destroy the gun by overuse. Right now the only change it needs is removing the self-destruction. We can keep the same limit which is at 3 atm (could be buffed to 4 imo, make the gun worth to buy) but instead of destroying the gun, have it be in overcharged mode, lets say 5-10 seconds and it starts reloading again. It is frustrating to have the gun completely destroyed when it costs 15 points.

SBD, DROIDEKA

Needs a big nerf against jedi. I did some testing against a skilled sbd 1v1 as me jedi tryin a lot different play styles (saber styles, mt, speed). I tried a lot different approaches yet NONE were effective in a 1v1. I lost basically 20 to 1 against cortosis sbd and firepower 2. Flinch, slap, cortosis, those things TOGETHER give sbd enough to instawin any jedi, the sbd basically stopped all my swings with flinch alone, sometimes I got 1 hit in but it gets dealt with by cortosis and flinch after that. Best tactic seemed to be red instacombo but it took luck to win, or a distraction but that doesn't happen in 1v1.

Droideka obviously with its super high rate force eating gun takes down jedi like fly due to flinch. Add in discharge and jedi cant even get near before his force is depleted.

Both of these things can be adjusted by removing flinch against sbd and droideka, or something what chaotic said in an earlier thread; have the rate of fire affect flinch in a certain way (higher rate of fire = flinch is reduced)

ARC

Make this poor bastard finally a strong class to play. My suggestion: make dex 3 free (but optional, some ppl prefer not having dex). This way arc has a lot more points to spent on stuff to make it actually a verstaile class. Havin dex 3 default you can now get a pulse or two while havin reasonable ammo, armor and firepower. I'd go even far enough to give arcs stamina 2 by default. This class needs some loving and it would be a blast to be more verstaile, not stuck having pulses to counter deka and sbd and then having no firepower or dexterity.

These are my biggest issues in the game, they don't bother me a great deal but could be fixed to make the gameplay a lot smoother. Otherwise I love the current build.

I won't say a word about dueling since that is not my forté and leave it to people who know better than me.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

Agree with the ARC part especially, the ARC is just such a mediocre class at the moment because we can't choose to take a PLX or EMP nades or even the sniper scope on ARC simply because it compromises the only thing making the class good, dexterity 3 and stam 2 (at minimum) + armor and ammo due to westar's low ammo count even at ammo 3, it needs to be mobile to actually do anything because the run speed without sprint is so slow and the movement from dex 3 is invaluable, dodging sabers and snipers has never required so much skill and yet rewarded a player with so much fun.

Admittedly, ARC shouldn't become ez mode to play simply by giving him a load of stats for free but he definitely needs the mobility and durability as either a default or raised over other classes because at present, it's not a choice to buy stamina or dexterity, you do it if you want to actually be useful against anything that round.

I think giving Dexterity 2 as default with upgrade to dex3 for 10 or 15 pts and stamina 1 as a default with a 15pt upgrade to stam 3 (5, 10) would work very well, would actually let ARC players use EMP nades and the PLX without sacrificing the ability to actually be useful.

 

[MoonmanMoonman]

Give arc westar 600 ammo, make it so wrist laser Doesn't explode, and it's k.

 

[Preston]

I like all of these changes.

 

[Gargos]

I am going to add here about arc:

I find the dual pistols to be quite irritating to fight against (the bounce shots can make the game not so interactive from time to time). So if these arc buffs do happen, I would nerf the bounce shots. Not sure how yet, one option would be that you can only bounce with the other pistol, but that could be a bit of a clumsy choice.

 

[Crusade010]

These are some really nice ideas, totally agree with the poison as it renders jedi pretty much useless while in affect, for deka I would say maybe after it uses the pulse have a cooldown where it cant fire for a few seconds to make it more of an evasive thing as well as the flinch/firerate thing you mentioned.

Arc with Dex 2 as default would go a long way to balancing the class, or if not maybe even raising the movement speed a little as any time you aren't sprinting you are too much of an easy target in open areas.

The dueling system relies too much on pblocking atm I think, pblocking stopping combos is nice but that's all dueling seems to be now which is a shame, would be great if it was toned down so you still needed to pblock but duels didn't rely on it so heavily.

 

[Lessen]

I'm fine with poison BH and cortosis SBDs as really strong Jedi counters. It's a team game, not an all-class mix-em-up duel-o-rama.

Wrist Laser blowing up is kind of an interesting mechanic, since it lets you desperately fire "an extra shot." The reason I think it's stupid in practice right now is: there's just not enough feedback. There should be audio feedback for when you're on your last shot, when a shot's reloaded, and when it's fully reloaded.

(virtually unrelatedly: there's a number of Full Authentic weapons that have broken visual or sound effects right now. Turrets firing invisible shots, SBD power blast being invisible, shotgun having a secondary fire that apparently does nothing but drain ammo, and some other things.)

ARC can get dual pistols, full armor, full dex, full stam, and a pulse nade or PLX shot, if you get Ammo 1. Ammo 1 seems like enough ammo if you're playing support, just firing accurate shots (not a bunch of suppressing fire), dueling/baiting Sith, and using your nade to get through some bothersome droid. I'd enjoy having effectively more points to spend, but I don't think ARC's actually that bad.

 

[Manyo]

I would sign anything you said about Poison Darts, Wrist Laser and SBD/Deka vs Jedi.

I already posted my thoughts about ARC in the m5 buff thread, so i wont repeat everything again. To keep it short:
I think its versatile enough and i dont want ARC to become another power class that can single handedly destroy enemy teams when played by a good player. Dex 3 + Stamina 3 + Pistols 3 + M5 3 most definitely would make some players do that. And dont nerf bounce shots to justify other buffs it is yet another reason to play ARC instead of something else.

Since you summed up balance issues so nicely i want to add my thoughts on other things:

EE3
Since it wasn't mentioned i wonder if iam the only one who thinks it is too strong in its current state. The sniper mode gives you 2 shots that can be timed as you want that are deadly in a lot of situations. It is extremly powerful versus any class due to beeing equally valuable on long distance as on short distance. It is just so forgiving even if you miss one shot you can directly try again making pop up sniping to something that can hardly be countered by gunner classes.
2 Shots (or 1shot+normal mode) are fine when you consider that Mandalorians mostly dont have a second weapon they can switch to after a failed shot and its important that Mandalorians have a powerful gun. The sniper shots just take too much damage individually.

Dash vs Sith
I dont have much experience with playing either side so this is speculative, take it with a grain of salt.
Dash makes push even if it works directly after the dash useless since the hero is mostly too far away anyway, pull is hard to pull off since the hero can also dash sideways. So i wonder what a Sith is suppose to do to fight a hero that just keeps dashing away? Is lightning stoping dash? As far as i understand theres not much a sith can do versus a Hero that just keeps dashing away and watches out not to do that in front of a wall.
The siths risk for using push/pull is on the same level as before but the reward (having hero reachable on the ground) is lost.
I dont have a problem with dash versus gunners tho.

Soldiers:
The buff was long overdue, but its a little too much. You dont have to make a big compromise to play a soldier with high running speed since you can take a well rounded build with full armor and E11 lvl 3. Speed gives the soldier a buff that is far more worth than the 10 points you have to spend. Making it 20 which is as much as a frag nade would mean a real compromise.

 

[Gargos]

@Vive ut vivas.
It is not just fun when you go out there as a jedi (who is supposed to be on the offensive, in front of gunners to push forward while gunners shoot) and all you see is bh so you either go there to get poisoned or run behind gunners and do nothing.

Wrist laser shouldn't be some last desperate shot that you can't use again. If it was it should be helluva stronger. Otherwise spend your points on rocket if you want an effective panic button.

The arc you just described is full useless when he runs into a sith, not even enough ammo to take it to 0 fp. And that so called support build only has 1 chance to be supportive with that rocket or pulse making it rather lame.

@Manyo dash is just fine. At least I don't run into troubles when playin against it as sith. Well timed push against dash can get you closer to hero and then strike. Lightin and grip helps with this a lot. Trying to corner the hero is also good way to do it. And deflect can change the game play makin hero more likely to run -> pull or push into corner etc.

I agree with your ee3 and soldier ideas.

 

[Lessen]

@Gargos
In that situation as Jedi, can't you still actively help by staying on the front flank and threatening to push, forcing the BH to walk, making them an easier target for your gunners?

I wasn't saying that Wrist laser IS a panic weapon, I was saying that it's interesting for having a certain size clip (3 shots? I don't remember.) with an optional extra shot, that, with proper audio feedback, you would never ever accidentally use, but you have the option of using it in unlikely extreme situations.

I'm not saying it's a necessary mechanic, I'm just saying that the problem with it is bad feedback, not that the mechanic needs to be removed. Just needs audio feedback.

I don't think that ARC is useless, if you're trying to completely drain the FP of a Sith, you should do it with a squad anyway, not alone. What that ARC CAN do against Sith is step right into their range and bait swings and then easily escape and punish them for it, like a Hero, but tankier. Being able to comfortably hang out at close range against Sith is a useful skill, I think.

 

[Preston]

Dash is fine vs Sith like Gargos said, if oyu time the pull or push correct mid dash they fall over.

 

[NERO]

I dunno how a jedi who takes a few E-11 sec shots to the face and torso, gets knocked down by a grenade high in the air, falls down and has a quarter of a clone rifle magazine riddled in them and still manages to stand up and keep fighting is 'nerfed', but sure. Not to mention the part where I'd feel it more worthwhile to just run at things and swing at them and tank my way through 4-5 gunners before dying, instead of playing carefully, failing and not killing anyone.

SBDs having cortosis as a crutch against jedi is really tiring. I think we should balance both classes so that A) SBDs don't automatically go for cortosis, becoming useful against them but half-useless against any gunner in long to medium range and B) people don't automatically start spamming jedi when nothing else works. (Remove the freaking damage reduction already and replace it with something else)

I agree with ARC getting some love. People arguing that 'you need to just get good at ARC but more than any other class' is bs.

 

[Damn Polak]

Now that jedi is nerfed

it's not
inb4 flinch - afaik they rely on pushspam more now since the universal damage reduction

 

[Gargos]

@Vive ut vivas.
Yeah you can do that but in many cases gunners alone fail to get thru advance without jedi running in front (or then imps just have bad defense overall). Even if you lurk behind gunners you get poisoned eitherway.

The only type of arc that can give me trouble when I play sith is m5 due to good fp rape and arc's dexterity.

@NERO
I somewhat agree with you about jedi, but I think you're giving them a bit too much credit. Flinch usually stops them and then you see jedi players cry about it.

@Damn Polak
Well isn't that wonderful, now you know their tactic. All you have to do now is walk and keep blasting, if you can hit close range then flinch will take care of it (except sometimes, I've seen couple situations where flinch should have workd but haven't, most likely a bug and I got one in demo that I posted months ago in the bug report - section)

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Why is everything in this game about gunners and open mode? Sabering in 1.4 is just annoying and cancerous. It is incredibly difficult now to kill two mediocre saberists, let alone two good ones that can pblock, by yourself that is. Revert sabering back to 1.3 please, before doing anything else. I've met maybe 4 saberists in the last 2 months that actually like 1.4, and they barely even play.

Not only is the saber system now even harder to get into for new players, but it simply isn't fun.

As for open mode, flinch needs to be reworked to have a damage threshold. Gloan and SBD are simply too powerful for flinch to work for them (fast firing, and slap on SBD), every blob is basically a guaranteed kill if you can land it. Poison I agree could use a nerf, but if you intend to nerf poison, nerf Dash/Dodge/Heal on Hero. There is a reason why *every*one uses the triumvirate of gunner classes on rebels, Hero/Gloan/Wook.

Destroyer Droid is fine and often underused for how useful it can be, just nerf the discharge and it'll be fine. I have 0 trouble killing Destroyer Droids (On reasonable maps, not 3x3 hallway maps) utilizing a saber, even when they have discharge I can usually outlast them with some good positioning/footwork.

I've made a habit of killing even high tier Sith with my crappy gunning, by just walking into them with CR3, I barely need to aim. It basically forces them to adopt lightning, and when they do, I just stamina run out of their lightning in a 1v1 so they cannot saber me.

Arc Trooper doesn't need a buff. In the right hands, it is a gunner-killing machine, and can be fairly potent at killing Sith. My only suggestion would be a buff to rockets against hard targets like Dekas/SBDs, if at all possible, give the rockets a sort of slight 'drop' effect at long distances, so you can effectively lob them.



Personally, I liked the perks of 1.3 for both anti-gunner and sabering. They added flavor to every saber style, which could prove useful. Obviously some were a tad ridiculous, like Red's enormous damage reduction, and Purple's deflection bonus, however, they could always be brought in line with nerfs. In 1.3, Cyan was my favorite style to use against multiple opponents, and it was quite effective with dealing with masses. I could hold off an entire hallway of Jedi/Gunners, buying my team time, utilizing the acrobatic FP bonuses, and parry damage from Cyan. Even won an 8v1 against saberists before 1.bore was shipped. Everyone complains that Cyan was overpowered, but it really wasn't. Twas easy to use, but it was still quite beatable. Hell, even people that used to praise 1.4 (Like my friend Tristran) are now disliking it. You even caused a large portion of saberists to leave the actual game. I barely even see anyone good these days.

A while ago, I made a huge list of changes that would have kept 1.3 relatively balanced, yet still fun, and instead we now have 1.4. Which the devs appear to blindly love. I strive to find saberists that actually enjoy 1.4, very few do. Almost all of the praise for 1.4 come from the people that implemented/tested it, and gunners. Seriously, keep some of the 1.4 changes that are actually good, and revert the rest back to 1.3.

 

[T r i s t a n]

Why is everything in this game about gunners and open mode? Sabering in 1.4 is just annoying and cancerous. It is incredibly difficult now to kill two mediocre saberists, let alone two good ones that can pblock, by yourself that is. Revert sabering back to 1.3 please, before doing anything else. I've met maybe 4 saberists in the last 2 months that actually like 1.4, and they barely even play.

Not only is the saber system now even harder to get into for new players, but it simply isn't fun.

As for open mode, flinch needs to be reworked to have a damage threshold. Gloan and SBD are simply too powerful for flinch to work for them (fast firing, and slap on SBD), every blob is basically a guaranteed kill if you can land it. Poison I agree could use a nerf, but if you intend to nerf poison, nerf Dash/Dodge/Heal on Hero. There is a reason why *every*one uses the triumvirate of gunner classes on rebels, Hero/Gloan/Wook.

Destroyer Droid is fine and often underused for how useful it can be, just nerf the discharge and it'll be fine. I have 0 trouble killing Destroyer Droids (On reasonable maps, not 3x3 hallway maps) utilizing a saber, even when they have discharge I can usually outlast them with some good positioning/footwork.

I've made a habit of killing even high tier Sith with my crappy gunning, by just walking into them with CR3, I barely need to aim. It basically forces them to adopt lightning, and when they do, I just stamina run out of their lightning in a 1v1 so they cannot saber me.

Arc Trooper doesn't need a buff. In the right hands, it is a gunner-killing machine, and can be fairly potent at killing Sith. My only suggestion would be a buff to rockets against hard targets like Dekas/SBDs, if at all possible, give the rockets a sort of slight 'drop' effect at long distances, so you can effectively lob them.



Personally, I liked the perks of 1.3 for both anti-gunner and sabering. They added flavor to every saber style, which could prove useful. Obviously some were a tad ridiculous, like Red's enormous damage reduction, and Purple's deflection bonus, however, they could always be brought in line with nerfs. In 1.3, Cyan was my favorite style to use against multiple opponents, and it was quite effective with dealing with masses. I could hold off an entire hallway of Jedi/Gunners, buying my team time, utilizing the acrobatic FP bonuses, and parry damage from Cyan. Even won an 8v1 against saberists before 1.bore was shipped. Everyone complains that Cyan was overpowered, but it really wasn't. Twas easy to use, but it was still quite beatable. Hell, even people that used to praise it (Like my friend Tristran) are now disliking it. You even caused a large portion of saberists to leave the actual game. I barely even see anyone good these days.

A while ago, I made a huge list of changes that would have kept 1.3 relatively balanced, yet still fun, and instead we now have 1.4. Which the devs appear to blindly love. I strive to find saberists that actually enjoy 1.4, very few do. Almost all of the praise for 1.4 come from the people that implemented/tested it, and gunners. Seriously, keep some of the 1.4 changes that are actually good, and revert the rest back to 1.3.

I thought I was you're only friend? Tristan* Only met Tristran once, I didn't realize he specialized in Cyan too... WE ARE LEGION!

 

[{Δ} Achilles]

Surprisingly, I have a lot of friends. Anywho, Tristran uses yellow, not cyan. Hell, even I'm using yellow more in 1.4 than anything, it is basically like hitting people with a giant tumor.

 

[T r i s t a n]

Surprisingly, I have a lot of friends. Anywho, Tristran uses yellow, not cyan. Hell, even I'm using yellow more in 1.4 than anything, it is basically like hitting people with a giant tumor.

a contagious tumor*...

 

[Mads]

What irritates me the most is the fact that the dart deals rather much dmg while jedi has hardly any counter to NOT get hit by it.

While I agree with what you wrote and there certainly is a need to tweak poison darts I dislike the way you want to solve it. The problem isn't the damage but as you mentioned no counter to getting hit. Precisely darts hitting target instantly with unlimited range and also not having a visible projectile.

Needs a big nerf against jedi. I did some testing against a skilled sbd 1v1 as me jedi tryin a lot different play styles (saber styles, mt, speed). I tried a lot different approaches yet NONE were effective in a 1v1. I lost basically 20 to 1 against cortosis sbd and firepower 2.

While Cortosis was always extremely annoying, it's a situational and ineffective build that serves a sole purpose of stopping jedi spam. I think it actually brought some variety to the public servers without disturbing game balance. You are not going to use cortosis in a serious game cause it's absolutely useless. But if enemy picks 8 jedi and no gunners the other team should have means to punish that extremely hard.

ARC
Make this poor bastard finally a strong class to play.

I always liked the ideas that removed clunkiness from classes. There is certainly a room for improvement with stamina, dexterity and quickscoping.
BUT
Under no circumstances you can make a support class stronger than regular gunners as it would turn the entire game upside down. There would be absolutely no purpose of picking anything else than jedi and ARC. This class has to be weakest in duels for the sake of balance.

Pulse spam rush has been the best offensive strategy since b19 for a reason.

My only five cents to anyone still working with mb2 would be to have E11 above the power curve as it encourages people to pick reinforcement classes and in return offers best game experience to everyone.

 

[thejoker]

More ARC blue bubble rockets pweese