"Movie Battles 2" is kind of a dumb name.

[Damn Polak]

Duel of the Fates

kek

Push Wars

hilarious 10/10

why don't we crowdpool the new name on 4chan or something

 

[Megatron (The Shredder)]

I think we should just rename to "DOTF 24/7 cuz of AOD"

Joking aside:
Tactical Cinematic Re-enactment Insurgencies or (TCRI, totally not a TMNT show reference).
Cinematic Combat Re-enactment
Star Wars: No one plays FA anymore
Star Wars: We need more maps
Counter Strike: The Star Wars Reskin
Push Wars



Okay . . . okay maybe not joking aside.

 

[Lessen]

continuing my sincere but clumsy attempts to feel towards a better name:

what about something with "Incursion" in it? All of the battles in MB2 are... after all... incursions. They're all sudden, small-scale tactical assaults on specific targets in enemy territory. The nature of the word suits them well. It would allude to "Counter-Strike" too, by being the same naming style.

I would almost want to just call it Incursion, because the game is honestly so damn good as just a tactical game, and it's an elegant enough name, but it seems wrong to not have any Star Wars reference in the name. Although, to be fair, "Movie Battles II" does not actually specify "Star Wars," either.

hell, out of context, you would think "Movie Battles II" would feature battles from all kinds of random-ass movies.

what ever happened to Movie Battles I?

Anyway, at the moment, I like the name Incursion, and think it should just feature some kind of frequently-displayed but optional subtitle like "A Jedi Academy Mod."

 

[MaceMadunusus]

hell, out of context, you would think "Movie Battles II" would feature battles from all kinds of random-ass movies.

It does if you do a full install. The full name Is Star Wars: Movie Battles II anyway. Even for Jedi Academy, or Battlefront you don't say the Star Wars in front of it.

Regardless of the name being stupid it is too late in the mods lifetime to change names. This discussion has been had before.

 

[Hexodious]

I am not against a name change, even this late in the games life cycle but I don't think it would happen.

Star Wars: Last Man Standing
starwarslms.com - Available
swlms.com - Available

Star Wars: Quake
starwarsquake.com - Available
swquake.com - Available

Star Wars: Combat
starwarscombat.com - Available
swcombat.com - Available

Star Wars: Versus
starwarsversus.com - Available
swversus.com - Available

Star Wars: Strike Force
starwarsstrikeforce.com - Available
swstrikeforce.com - Available
swstrike.com - Available

My favourite is Strike Force as it reminds me of Counter Strike and has the Force in it. I am a simple man of simple pleasures.

 

[Lessen]

I'm a fan of Star Wars: Strike Force.

the MBII team doesn't have a clear consensus on whether the name can change now...

For:
Helix liked my post.
Hexodius said he's not against a name change.

For-ish:
Good Ol' Ben said the name is quite shit but he can't think of a better one.

Against:
Mundunusus said it's too late.
LoU liked Puppytine's "No."

Could a clearer, more formal consensus be reached about this?

 

[TadekRaeod]

Star Wars:Jedi Knight...Eternal Battles 2?
nop,it sucks xd
even though i just suggested a name,i'm against it for this:

Changing name after 13 years of existing?
No.

 

[StarWarsGeek]

the MBII team doesn't have a clear consensus on whether the name can change now...
Could a clearer, more formal consensus be reached about this?

Out of respect, I imagine a lot of retired devs should also be contacted for their opinions on the matter too. That's a lot of people to contact. At the very least, RenegadeOfPhunk since he's the one who started it all and came up with the name in the first place.

I really don't think Movie Battles 2 is that awful of a name though. It is rather descriptive. If someone isn't interested because of the name (which is a silly reason), all you have to do is tell them it's basically Counter Strike: Star Wars Edition. If the name were to be changed though, Star Wars: Strike Force is probably the coolest and most fitting.

 

[Puppytine]

Honestly, I can't understand why you people even discuss it.

Do you know how much effort it would take to change name of a mod?

• A lot of game text must be rewritten, as well as pictures where "Movie Battles" caption are must be redrawn and replaced.
• MBII Launcher will require similar corrections.
• Files names ("mbii.x86.exe") and folder names ("MBII", "MBII_Launcher", "mmeMBII") must be updated, therefore we'll have to use new command line parameters, therefore .bat files and shortcuts should be rewritten, too, including custom ones.
  These changes are required on all systems, and on servers, not only on clients.
• Wikia, and Installation and troubleshooting guide and main page will require editing, and all posts on forums either must be modified or they will be looking weird.
• Remember about MBII moddb page.
• Movie Battles team will have to buy a new domain name instead of moviebattles.org, and move site to that new location.

And all this work, for what? What benefits we will get because of name change?
Though last word is for devs indeed, and I'm not a part MBII team, but I really doubt they have time and interest to do it.
It's comfortable to suggest such kind of stuff, when you aren't somebody who would actually gonna perform renaming.

Don't forget about consequences.

• And kind of renaming will confuse people who used to know game for its current name. Especially those who were out for few years, and then decide to return and have some fun.
• Weren't losing old domain name and old forums enough to keep us away from any actions those could possibly decrease our player base?
• Also, moving site to new address will cause needing of re-indexing from search engines, and editing entries in Wikipedia.
• There are mentions about Movie Battles on other sites (Reddit...) and nobody gonna update them.
  Remember about tons of yt videos, all captioned with "Movie Battles II". Some unexperienced/casual gamers may find out some cool vids, but then get confused why there is no mod with its old name anymore.

After all, I simply can't see why Movie Battles II is a bad name. Good enough for me.
Indeed, there are some great name suggestions in this thread, from different users, but I'm not sure how they are really better than the name that is already in use.

There are examples that you should do rebranding only when you actually have some damn good reasons to do it, not just "hey, let's rename things! For the lulz!":
Announcement: 2007 Survey Results & Site Changes - The Daily WTF
Announcement: A New, New, New Name! - The Daily WTF

why don't we crowdpool the new name on 4chan or something

We already have @Chaos the Chaotic, he's our one man army4chan .

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Thank god someone realizes how much work it is and how big the consequences could possibly be. It could actually be detrimental to our player base at this time. Old players wont understand a reference to a new name made on Reddit, YouTube, Twitter, Imgur, etc. and be able to relate or relay experience if they are not aware of the name change. This will literally be 10s of thousands of people (Some people forget how popular MB has been) that will never ever know of a name change. You don't change the name of something after 13 years of it existing.

 

[Lessen]

hey I appreciate your points. I have some thoughts and maybe counterpoints, though.

Changing instances of "Movie Battles" strings in code to something else isn't really a massive task. Arguably, file names don't even need to be changed. I mean, Team Fortress 2 still launches as "hl2.exe." And the Wikia is already badly in need of updates, so that's almost irrelevant. ModDB surely wouldn't take long to update.

Changing art pieces is certainly more work, especially if the original art isn't still around in a layered format.

Your and Madunusus's point about "it will be confusing for people who already know the game by another name" is mmmmmostly countered by the fact that you could hold on to the moviebattles.org domain and your search engine rankings, and just have the website have a big redirect to the new site. Which would mean paying for two domain names, sure, but it would mean that anyone who hears about and looks for Movie Battles would find the new name pretty quickly.

Which wouldn't solve the problem of: people who played MB2 in the past wouldn't recognize references to the new name, but that just means that announcements public enough for that to be a real issue need to include a "formerly Movie Battles 2" somewhere in the title.

Not to say that wouldn't all be a pain in the ass, but it wouldn't be impossible either. And what would it be for? Well, I just think a proper name that reflects how developed MB2 really is would massively help its presentation as a serious, unique game, and not just a niche fanservice toy.

It might be unthinkable that Movie Battles II would ever be "relevant," or have any kind of really big new Golden Age, but I think it could. I think a new name is necessary for it to have a chance, though. Right now, I think the name only draws essentially casual players.

I wish there was some way for MBII to have a visible presence on Steam, since right now it's only discoverable there by browsing the community hub for Jedi Academy, but Jedi Academy isn't set up to officially support Community-Made Mods, and it's unlikely anyone on the other end would care enough to change that.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Your and Madunusus's point about "it will be confusing for people who already know the game by another name" is mmmmmostly countered by the fact that you could hold on to the moviebattles.org domain and your search engine rankings, and just have the website have a big redirect to the new site. Which would mean paying for two domain names, sure, but it would mean that anyone who hears about and looks for Movie Battles would find the new name pretty quickly.

Which wouldn't solve the problem of: people who played MB2 in the past wouldn't recognize references to the new name, but that just means that announcements public enough for that to be a real issue need to include a "formerly Movie Battles 2" somewhere in the title.

Not everyone that talks about Movie Battles is going to look up the game before they make a comment or post about it, and reference the new name. The same can be said the other way around. People are not going to recognize the new name as being MB2 when they're just talking about it. It isn't just about people who want to come back to the game. It is people relaying their experience like this:

When someone makes the off the cuff reference to Movie Battles their experience is going to be about Movie Battles rather than the new name. People are going to remember it and discuss it as such. If people actually look up and search movie battles you are right that does mostly solve the issue. However not everyone does that and completely messes up the entire recognition of the brand. No one is going to know what the new name is if it gets referenced on the Star Wars subreddit without someone explaining it to them or without them googling where as with the Movie Battles name that is not the case.

Have you heard of an ISP that was around until a few years ago called Qwest? They merged with another company and are now called CenturyLink. Qwest owned the name to a convention center in my hometown and called it the Qwest Center. Not it is renamed the CenturyLink Center. Guess what I still call it? Qwest Center. It causes confusion for people not old enough to know the original name. I still call Daybreak Games (DBG) SOE (Sony Online Entertainment) from time to time by accident as well. Name changes hurt.

 

[Lessen]

I hella appreciate your points, and the incredibly even tone of this conversation.

How strong is the Movie Battles brand, recognition-wise, at this point? I'm kind of figuring that the current population is low enough that we can afford to let go of the old brand and start building a fresh brand that could be much stronger later.

..And sure, it is a little odd to speak of "later" when we're talking about a 13 year old mod, but on the other hand, it IS still under active development, and it IS very unique and very strong, gameplay-wise, compared to other modern games.

Sure, there's the concern that, if we disconnect at all from the existing Movie Battles II awareness, the game might just fizzle out completely, I guess? But... when Episode VIII comes out, as long as people can find "Movie Battles 2" by searching for "cool star wars games" (or whatever caused that last surge), and as long as moviebattles.org redirects to the new site, we're probably going to get a nice population surge that we can work with, to start building a new brand awareness.

Also, your main point seems to be that people who already know about Movie Battles II won't recognize the new name when they see it out of context, which... might not really be a problem? How important is it, really, to bring back old players, rather than capture new ones?

Plus, Reddit threads about MBII have mostly floundered anyway. A better, catchier, more serious name would probably help a bunch there.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Useless words!

And really, that's the point. We're not going to actually change anything. We're just going to call it something else
It's like putting a sticker on the sign out front. Not going to repaint the sign

Name changing for slackers. Christ you people get too serious.

I haven't been to 4chan in years. And overall, I probably spent less than 6 hours on it total
I am banned from several cults though...online cults are lame. They have no sense of humor. Especially Mormons.

Star Wars MovieBattles 2: Revelation!

Since most people recognize the MB just keep it in, add a new extension.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

How strong is the Movie Battles brand, recognition-wise, at this point? I'm kind of figuring that the current population is low enough that we can afford to let go of the old brand and start building a fresh brand that could be much stronger later.

Linking a TotalBiscuit video should have been enough to convey that point. That video is 10 months old from someone who has 2.2 million subs reviews hundreds of games and has 350k views not counting the initial twitch stream. He took the time to mention a 12 year old mod (at that point) and say its saber combat was better than Battlefront. It also wasn't the only video he or others on his Co-optional podcast brought it up. It got brought up several times by different people he was interviewing or were a part of the conversation. Several of them have hundreds of thousands of subs as well or work in the game industry in some form.

Another random comment from the PlanetSide 2 subreddit I found one day: Increased Empire Differentiation Suggestions • /r/Planetside

Several LucasArts developers said they used MB2 for inspiration in the past (Sorry I don't have that post handy). I heard from a popular Battlefield youtuber as well that DICE did look at MB2 while making Battlefront.

Some games like Blade Symphony used MB2 as inspiration. (The developers themselves were even on the old version of the forums)

It reaches pretty damn far, and very recently.

Also, your main point seems to be that people who already know about Movie Battles II won't recognize the new name when they see it out of context, which... might not really be a problem? How important is it, really, to bring back old players, rather than capture new ones?

When people unaware of a game or a mod see several people commenting on something and talking about it. They are more inclined to look at what that thing is and learn about it. If conversations from old players dies down due to name change confusion then it is less likely you are going to capture new people.

Even then, there is only so many new people we can capture. JKA isn't free and Movie Battles is getting older and clunkier every minute it was out. For all the gameplay flaws battlefront had it was buttery smooth on its input and responsiveness. An old game like JKA gets harder and harder to play with its unreliable support for modern machines. There is people who won't try it simply because of how old it is or how outdated the graphics look. I'm not saying we should focus bringing back old players over new. Just realize that this game is old, there is only so much you can do to increase population at this point. Changing a 13 year old name is never one of them because it makes the conversation about it more difficult. I can't even think of a single game that has changed its name after that same time period. Most games that I see change names do it to avoid bad reviews (War Z), change their entire game premise (H1Z1 - and it still kept the important part of its name), or do it to perpetuate a joke (Orion Prelude).

Plus, Reddit threads about MBII have mostly floundered anyway. A better, catchier, more serious name would probably help a bunch there.

I wouldn't say that. Anytime I saw a Star Wars related reddit post or imgur post Jedi Academy/Outcast was mentioned in there and Movie Battles was almost always mentioned. In some threads near movie release a Movie Battles related comment was in the top 1-3 comments in several threads. This is only going to continue as new movies and games are released. Especially if they end up being like battlefront and we get people recommending Movie Battles over it like we did with the last one.

 

[Lessen]

Those are some really hot facts. It's really cool that MB2 got recognition among developers, and got random mentions by TotalBiscuit and company.

I still think my argument holds up, that a stronger brand could be built with a different name, and that the increase might entirely compensate for the loss of the existing MB2 brand, but it kind of depends on sort of unknowable facts about what MB2's brand recognition is really like and why it's like that. You could be right. Certainly I agree that changing the name would be a big risk.

 

[Megatron (The Shredder)]

If we do end up changing the name, you can always ask people in their videos if they can make a annotation note in the video and mention the name change.

 

[Puppytine]

Changing instances of "Movie Battles" strings in code to something else isn't really a massive task.
...
ModDB surely wouldn't take long to update.

It's only true while you aren't a person who apply those changes
As we all know, mb2 is not commercial mod, dev team consists of volunteers who don't get paid for their work on Movie Battles.
Though it's only my assumption, I think they could spare their free time for some other improvements of MBII.

I mean, Team Fortress 2 still launches as "hl2.exe."

So you suggest leave filenames as they are?
Sure, that would reduce required efforts, but also it would leave game in some strange, inconsistent state.

just have the website have a big redirect to the new site. Which would mean paying for two domain names

One more time, somebody have to actually move site to new domain and configure it, as well as pay for two domains instead of one.

but it would mean that anyone who hears about and looks for Movie Battles would find the new name pretty quickly.

Leaving current name alone eliminates any need to find new game name, quickly or not.

Which wouldn't solve the problem of: people who played MB2 in the past wouldn't recognize references to the new name, but that just means that announcements public enough for that to be a real issue need to include a "formerly Movie Battles 2" somewhere in the title.

It's like flushing reputation for 13 years down the toilet.
Despite the not very big player base, MBII has a pretty good reputation, sometimes people says that Movie Battles is actually great game on sites like Reddit.
All positive achievements of old name, achievements for more than a decade, would be wiped out, and for what?

When TFA came out, there was some period of hype for MBII, but now it's gone. Do you think that people who discovered Movie Battles and played it for a few weeks were like "yeah, that's a great mod, but I don't really like a name... So I'm not gonna play it anymore"?
I really doubt that popularity of any product (not just JA modification) can depends on its name, if we're not talking about some illegal or offensive stuff.

Well, I just think a proper name that reflects how developed MB2 really is would massively help its presentation as a serious, unique game, and not just a niche fanservice toy.

Sounds like some corporative press-release.
People should stop to think that success more relates to advertisement than on actual product's quality and features.

The only way where renaming could be an option is if MB developers were about to make some revolutionary changes to the game, like new engine or total revamping of gameplay mechanic, but that, I guess, not gonna happen.

I wish there was some way for MBII to have a visible presence on Steam, since right now it's only discoverable there by browsing the community hub for Jedi Academy, but Jedi Academy isn't set up to officially support Community-Made Mods, and it's unlikely anyone on the other end would care enough to change that.

But that's isn't related to a mod's name, right?

I haven't been to 4chan in years. And overall, I probably spent less than 6 hours on it total

I just meant your creative talents are something close to potential of whole 4chan crowd

On side note, I would like to comment some name suggestions:

Star Wars: Quake

That's a worst possible name.
Looks like we wanted to capitalize on things created by other people, it's just a combination of two trademarks.
And gameplay of Movie Battles, team game, isn't really related to a Quake.

Though "Star Wars: Team Arena" would make more sense, it's still not good; my main point is that name of mod should work with "Star Wars" prefix.
Current name fits it perfectly, and "Star Wars: Quake" without "Star Wars" will be just... "Quake".

Star Wars: Last Man Standing
Star Wars: Combat
Star Wars: Versus

Almost same problem here, stripping "Star Wars" automatically makes a name not unique.

Star Wars: Strike Force

This is actually a pretty good name.
But I still can't see why we should prefer it over "Movie Battles", especially after all these years.
Googling for "Strike Force", I can see some stuff uses this name, and "Movie Battles" looks more original for me.

Star Wars: Pimps
Star Wars: Siege at Hoth - need a good hoth map
Star Wars: Masters of the Force
Star Wars: Game of Thrones - haha, F**k with people.
Star Wars: Duel of the Fates - haha.(Simpson Laugh)
Star Wars: The Rainbow of Destiny

Star Wars: No one plays FA anymore
Star Wars: We need more maps
Push Wars

lulz

If we do end up changing the name, you can always ask people in their videos if they can make a annotation note in the video and mention the name change.

Change title and description of every video, thousands of them? Really?