Mandolorian saber/staff

[Xyloxa]

Hello there!

Currently in legends there is the Mandolorian class which contains a dark saber

Would it be a bad idea to add some sort of saber/staff to Mandolorian class into open but limiting them to saber defense 0? It would make so much sense for a Mandolorian to have a saber but only rely on perfect skill by only PBing them, could be a fun gamechanger!

Plus, well, as you all know there are multiple occasions of Mandolorians fighting with spears/sabers


pls give honest opinions

 

[Punished Crab]

That honestly could be pretty cool. There's probably some balancing that would need to go into it, but it sounds fun.

 

[Menagalix]

I agree with this. Open Imps are in need of a melee class that isn't a sith and it would be a sensible addition to add dark saber for Mandos. However I personally don't see it being THAT useful, I mean with defense zero you would need to be like a dueling god to beat a Jedi with it. You don't have powers like force push to set up for reliable kills on gunners. So to me it's an idea that sounds really good on paper but isn't that ground breaking, the only class the dark saber might help Mandos against is melee wookies, but Mando's already counter melee wookies well. It's a cool idea but not a very interesting one.

Since Mando in Legends doesn't have a jetpack I have no idea if you can swing while jetpacking, if you can it could be fun to do drive-by decapitations.

(Though personally I would prefer to see MagnaGuard added as a new class to fill that missing spot of a gunner&dueler hybrid class for imps.)

 

[Xyloxa]

I agree with this. Open Imps are in need of a melee class that isn't a sith and it would be a sensible addition to add dark saber for Mandos. However I personally don't see it being THAT useful, I mean with defense zero you would need to be like a dueling god to beat a Jedi with it. You don't have powers like force push to set up for reliable kills on gunners. So to me it's an idea that sounds really good on paper but isn't that ground breaking, the only class the dark saber might help Mandos against is melee wookies, but Mando's already counter melee wookies well. It's a cool idea but not a very interesting one.

Since Mando in Legends doesn't have a jetpack I have no idea if you can swing while jetpacking, if you can it could be fun to do drive-by decapitations.

(Though personally I would prefer to see MagnaGuard added as a new class to fill that missing spot of a gunner&dueler hybrid class for imps.)

I think it's just a fun counter that challenges players who are good at PBing and enjoy some gun gameplay too, but Magna Guard would also be amazing too

And drive-by decapitations hahaha, I love it!

 

[[SE] Maren]

Already suggested by me, please read my open fix.

Drive-by decapitations are sadly not possible atm though

 

[Xyloxa]

Already suggested by me, please read my open fix.

Drive-by decapitations are sadly not possible atm though

Hey SE|Valk! (Maren)

 

[[SE] Maren]

Hey SE|Valk! (Maren)

Umm, hello?

 

[KeppoTalon]

I think the idea of a dark saber or beskar staff (any sort of Lore accurate melee really) would be a good step in the right direction, realistically the Imps only other melee is loosely the SBD. I don't mean to hijack your thread but I've put some thought into reasonable changes to Mandalorians that would make them the well rounded fighters that ARCs are.

Ultimately I think Mandos need a rework, IMO it's foolish they have to pay for armor. It should be 100 by default. Cut the jetpack that's found organically to the class and make it purchasable. With the points that remain from no armor investment and no jetpack it can get put into:

1) Having to buy the jetpack. (which I know would result in needing some models to be changed if they opt out of getting one, which could be a massive undertaking unless the models already exist), Fuel still staying the same but the jetpack costing a considerable amount. This change would make the class a bit more modular, the jetpack is a great asset but on some maps and in certain instances it can be more or less useless.

2) Dexterity in combination with Stamina, this would work because they would have no need to fuel thus those points can get thrown at either more Dex or Stam. This would also compliment the implementation of a melee weapon for this class. Making them more more mobile and not stuck to the floor after getting force pushed 10 times. And as mentioned prior by Maren, it could help circumvent them not being able to use their melee weapon with a jetpack they would be otherwise stuck with.

3) Beskar'gam, pretty self explanatory. For a hefty amount of points having this upgrade would provide reduction from all froms of damage (besides explosives, pulse grenades, fire, and poison from those careless bounty hunters) it could essentially be a sort of "cortosis" found on SBDs that would help a great deal in fights against Jedi. Being able to tank a couple hits from the medium styles at the cost of potential mobility, gadgets, higher tier weapons, and ammo would make Mandalorians more than just jetpack gunners.

4) Melee weapons; the dark saber, a beskar staff, vibroswords, etc... Perhaps make them each unique in their own rights, inflicting different amounts of damage at the cost of one weapon having a higher price point than the other. Or just kinda blanket them and keep them all the same after being added. It could also be limited to just 1 tier of saber defense if the devs are generous enough. Without the saber defense missing one PB block could mean death without beskar.

Sides note - I think gadgets should stay the same, maybe even add one more idk. Obviously the flamethrower would require fuel but not necessarily a jetpack. Could be limited to 1 fuel without said jetpack. Giving Mandos more ranged weapons would be a blessing too but not totally needed. Could range from the Westar 35 carbine (acting like a DC15a) to a slug thrower (a shotgun or maybe even a slow firing semi auto projectile rifle of some sort, obviously with decreased damage).

Just my two cents, I know its a big ask and the Developers of this mod have already put more than their fair share of labor into making the best SW game on the market, but any sort of change would be interesting to see. Hope this input is somewhat reasonable without going over any boundaries. Anyways, if you have made it to the end of my spiel have a good day and watch those wrist rockets.

 

[[SE] Maren]

I think the idea of a dark saber or beskar staff (any sort of Lore accurate melee really) would be a good step in the right direction, realistically the Imps only other melee is loosely the SBD. I don't mean to hijack your thread but I've put some thought into reasonable changes to Mandalorians that would make them the well rounded fighters that ARCs are.

Ultimately I think Mandos need a rework, IMO it's foolish they have to pay for armor. It should be 100 by default. Cut the jetpack that's found organically to the class and make it purchasable. With the points that remain from no armor investment and no jetpack it can get put into:

1) Having to buy the jetpack. (which I know would result in needing some models to be changed if they opt out of getting one, which could be a massive undertaking unless the models already exist), Fuel still staying the same but the jetpack costing a considerable amount. This change would make the class a bit more modular, the jetpack is a great asset but on some maps and in certain instances it can be more or less useless.

2) Dexterity in combination with Stamina, this would work because they would have no need to fuel thus those points can get thrown at ether more Dex or Stam. This would also compliment the implementation of a melee weapon for this class. Making them more more mobile and not stuck to the floor after getting force pushed 10 times. And as mentioned prior by Maren, it could help circumvent them not being able to use their melee weapon with a jetpack they would be otherwise stuck with.

3) Beskar'gam, pretty self explanatory. For a hefty amount of points having this upgrade would provide reduction from all froms of damage (besides explosives, pulse grenades, fire, and poison from those careless bounty hunters) it could essentially be a sort of "cortosis" found on SBDs that would help a great deal in fights against Jedi. Being able to tank a couple hits from the medium styles at the cost of potential mobility, gadgets, higher tier weapons, and ammo would make Mandalorians more than just jetpack gunners.

4) Melee weapons; the dark saber, a beskar staff, vibroswords, etc... Perhaps make them each unique in their own rights, inflicting different amounts of damage at the cost of one weapon having a higher price point than the other. Or just kinda blanket them and keep them all the same after being added. It could also be limited to just 1 tier of saber defense if the devs are generous enough. Without the saber defense missing one PB block could mean death without beskar.

Sides note - I think gadgets should stay the same, maybe even add one more idk. Obviously the flamethrower would require fuel but not necessarily a jetpack. Could be limited to 1 fuel without said jetpack. Giving Mandos more ranged weapons would be a blessing too but not totally needed. Could range from the Westar 35 carbine (acting like a DC15a) to a slug thrower (a shotgun or maybe even a slow firing semi auto projectile rifle of some sort, obviously with decreased damage).

Just my two cents, I know its a big ask and the Developers of this mod have already put more than their fair share of labor into making the best SW game on the market, but any sort of change would be interesting to see. Hope this input is somewhat reasonable without going over any boundaries. Anyways, if you have made it to the end of my spiel have a good day and watch those wrist rockets.

Yes yes yes yes, exactly the sort class variation MB2 needs

 

[KeppoTalon]

Yes yes yes yes, exactly the sort class variation MB2 needs

Thanks for agreeing! I'd have more input for other classes too but I primarily only play Mando most of the time. I feel as though ARCs should have a melee option as well considering they're more or less the Mando's peer.

 

[Menagalix]

I think the idea of a dark saber or beskar staff (any sort of Lore accurate melee really) would be a good step in the right direction, realistically the Imps only other melee is loosely the SBD. I don't mean to hijack your thread but I've put some thought into reasonable changes to Mandalorians that would make them the well rounded fighters that ARCs are.

Ultimately I think Mandos need a rework, IMO it's foolish they have to pay for armor. It should be 100 by default. Cut the jetpack that's found organically to the class and make it purchasable. With the points that remain from no armor investment and no jetpack it can get put into:

1) Having to buy the jetpack. (which I know would result in needing some models to be changed if they opt out of getting one, which could be a massive undertaking unless the models already exist), Fuel still staying the same but the jetpack costing a considerable amount. This change would make the class a bit more modular, the jetpack is a great asset but on some maps and in certain instances it can be more or less useless.

2) Dexterity in combination with Stamina, this would work because they would have no need to fuel thus those points can get thrown at either more Dex or Stam. This would also compliment the implementation of a melee weapon for this class. Making them more more mobile and not stuck to the floor after getting force pushed 10 times. And as mentioned prior by Maren, it could help circumvent them not being able to use their melee weapon with a jetpack they would be otherwise stuck with.

3) Beskar'gam, pretty self explanatory. For a hefty amount of points having this upgrade would provide reduction from all froms of damage (besides explosives, pulse grenades, fire, and poison from those careless bounty hunters) it could essentially be a sort of "cortosis" found on SBDs that would help a great deal in fights against Jedi. Being able to tank a couple hits from the medium styles at the cost of potential mobility, gadgets, higher tier weapons, and ammo would make Mandalorians more than just jetpack gunners.

4) Melee weapons; the dark saber, a beskar staff, vibroswords, etc... Perhaps make them each unique in their own rights, inflicting different amounts of damage at the cost of one weapon having a higher price point than the other. Or just kinda blanket them and keep them all the same after being added. It could also be limited to just 1 tier of saber defense if the devs are generous enough. Without the saber defense missing one PB block could mean death without beskar.

Sides note - I think gadgets should stay the same, maybe even add one more idk. Obviously the flamethrower would require fuel but not necessarily a jetpack. Could be limited to 1 fuel without said jetpack. Giving Mandos more ranged weapons would be a blessing too but not totally needed. Could range from the Westar 35 carbine (acting like a DC15a) to a slug thrower (a shotgun or maybe even a slow firing semi auto projectile rifle of some sort, obviously with decreased damage).

Just my two cents, I know its a big ask and the Developers of this mod have already put more than their fair share of labor into making the best SW game on the market, but any sort of change would be interesting to see. Hope this input is somewhat reasonable without going over any boundaries. Anyways, if you have made it to the end of my spiel have a good day and watch those wrist rockets.

Those are fairly good ideas. However, with the dex thing I saw another similar suggestion in a different Mando rework thread and I liked their idea better. They wanted Mando to get their own purchasable get up attack, where they would use the jetpack to flip the Mando up, costing a lot of fuel but also dealing fire damage and knock back. I just like that idea better because it makes Mandos play more distinctively to ARCs.

The armor is a good idea, because like I mentioned the dark saber would be a bit underwhelming in duels if you had to perfect block every hit. However, if Mando can tank one lightsaber hit with Beskar, that definitely would make it more balanced.

However, I don't think Mando needs tougher armor AND a faster get up AND saber defense 1. Mando's do sorta lose the Jedi match-up, but not by that much. All Mando needs to feel even with Jedi is a bit more powerful direct flamethrower damage, because currently I've seen too many Jedi just force speed through a Mando's flamethrower, slice the Mando, and survive. edit: (actually I think wrist laser also needs a buff too, haven't seen it used effectively very often)

If the devs add all the things you suggest, it's overcompensating and making the Jedi and Mando match up not fun for Jedi. While I appreciate your creative ideas to give the class more variety, the best way to balance a game is incrementally and if I were a dev I would personally only pick one of your options to add before testing anything else, or perhaps combine an idea for balance purposes.

Perhaps they should just add 3 tiers to Mando Melee Weapons, and the third tier is expensive but also comes with Beskar armor. That way you can't just put Beskar armor onto a gunner build, but instead can only use it if you are putting points into melee.

 

[KeppoTalon]

Those are fairly good ideas. However, with the dex thing I saw another similar suggestion in a different Mando rework thread and I liked their idea better. They wanted Mando to get their own purchasable get up attack, where they would use the jetpack to flip the Mando up, costing a lot of fuel but also dealing fire damage and knock back. I just like that idea better because it makes Mandos play more distinctively to ARCs.

The armor is a good idea, because like I mentioned the dark saber would be a bit underwhelming in duels if you had to perfect block every hit. However, if Mando can tank one lightsaber hit with Beskar, that definitely would make it more balanced.

However, I don't think Mando needs tougher armor AND a faster get up AND saber defense 1. Mando's do sorta lose the Jedi match-up, but not by that much. All Mando needs to feel even with Jedi is a bit more powerful direct flamethrower damage, because currently I've seen too many Jedi just force speed through a Mando's flamethrower, slice the Mando, and survive. edit: (actually I think wrist laser also needs a buff too, haven't seen it used effectively very often)

If the devs add all the things you suggest, it's overcompensating and making the Jedi and Mando match up not fun for Jedi. While I appreciate your creative ideas to give the class more variety, the best way to balance a game is incrementally and if I were a dev I would personally only pick one of your options to add before testing anything else, or perhaps combine an idea for balance purposes.

Perhaps they should just add 3 tiers to Mando Melee Weapons, and the third tier is expensive but also comes with Beskar armor. That way you can't just put Beskar armor onto a gunner build, but instead can only use it if you are putting points into melee.

Thanks for the feedback and input!

I absolutely agree with a buff to the flamethrower and more particularly the wrist laser buff. Both are quite weak and it's only a real deterrent when the Jedi is very low.

I've also thought of the jetpack get up idea but I wasn't sure if that was possible. As I do like the sound of fire damage and knockback that doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense IMO. But I do like the idea of a jetpack get up, but I feel like that should already be implemented. Activating the jetpack while on the ground or even when falling from knockback is a good idea, though at the cost of some more fuel obviously.

The thing about what you said about "I don't think Mando needs tougher armor AND a faster get up AND saber defense 1" is that essentially (as long as the point system is fleshed out correctly and in a balanced manner) they would be an absolute glass cannon for melee strictly. It would pretty much leave no room for any weapons besides probably P1 and without much ammo. I think if they didnt have those 3 things in coordination they wouldn't be a melee asset. PBing for most people is very difficult and if the Mando kit didnt have tougher armor and any saber defense they would just get walked through even by more novice Jedi, especially if a push can incapacitate them (without a fast get up) to a vulnerable state on the ground and the armor would only keep them alive until they just get up.

Essentially if they ran Beskar (say 20pts), Dex 2 (10pts), a Melee weapon (10-20pts) and Saber Defense (4pts) that wouldn't leave them a lot of room for gadgets, weapons, ammo etc... I don't know everything off the top of my head but everything listed sounds like quite the investment even if 100 armor is default. Even if they could tank 3-4 swings from yellow, starting a fight with 1/3 the bp of your opponent would be hard to win.

But if the flamethrower and wrist laser get a well deserved buff those points may vary too if a total rework of the class ever comes to fruition.

And yes I think testing these things incrementally is an absolute necessity, but to be frank the Mandalorian class as it stands (especially after the rocket nerf) isn't exactly the most appealing to play.

I do think that beskar for a gunner build would be a decent idea, especially if the EE3 stays as pitiful as it is right now. And the ARC would still be a good match up because of Westar M5 GL being able to knock Mandos down and ignore their armor. Not to mention the M5 (1) is nuts and completely eclipses the EE3 (3). Back to the point though I'm not trying to propose lore accurate beskar because that would be too much. Just SOME damage resistance from blasters and sabers in particular.

Thank you though again for the feedback, everything you mentioned is thought provoking but I do stand by everything I listed and think Open mode would be more enjoyable and interesting if everything is done correctly and in a balanced way, though that's easier said than done.

 

[ScruffMcGruff]

Vibroblades would be cool but keep the Darksaber and spear in FA and Legends.