Legends Impressions

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It seems that Legends has replaced Open as the most populated mode. As an average skill player, here are my thoughts on Legends after playing it for a while.

Now that Legends has loadout customization, I think it has more potential than Open because it has a more iconic roster. Legends mode also has superior depth in weapons and abilities. Notably, the grappling hook, kickflip, cloak, and enhanced saber throw are fun to use. Shotguns and Micro-Rocket launchers are also a nice change of pace too. Hybrid classes seem to let skilled players shine, by being able to engage in both gunning and saber dueling.

Some game-changing mechanics are healers, force protect, and armor regen. These mechanics encourage experienced players to play more aggressively, and also give new players a way to be useful outside of nade spam. I used to think healing would ruin the fun, but after getting used to it, I prefer this fast pacing over the more tactical nature of Open and I enjoy playing healer as a comfort class.

I really like the 2-life Jedi and Sith (Jedi Knight and Royal Protector) since they make sabering way more accessible and also allow saber players to play more aggressively. However, I can't fathom why the devs thought 5-life classes were a good idea. Either those players kamikaze with rocket launchers like a huge nuisance, or they stall the game long. 3-life should be the maximum! And even then, classes like the 3-life Kowakian monkey-lizard seemed to be designed with the goal of making them as annoying as possible.

Legends generally feels unfinished. Most notably, Mara Jade has no FP, and Bo-Katan's jetpack crashes my game every time I use it. Also, I can't find a way to save my builds, and people I ask tell me it's not possible yet. Plus there are no default builds. I noticed that some classes like C3P0 and Gunray have been taken off the roster, I assume to be reworked? !Spin seems mostly broken. Seeker drone seems to glitch out some doors.

There are also some dumb abilities, a notable one is the trip mines. They are way too visible to not see unless placed directly behind a door on some maps. But the wire activates even on teammates. Even then they barely do damage individually, I see most people just using them trying to place them on enemies to get them stuck. Toxic laughter is just toxic dart minus skill, which is very lame.

Overall, I have fun on Legends despite not liking "Hero Shooters" and if it gets properly polished I wouldn't mind it permanently becoming the main mode of this game. But I'd also like to see Open make a comeback by taking some of Legend's best aspects.
 

Goosto

FA / Legends Contributor
Internal Beta Team
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Appreciate the write up and the color coding for my low attention span, I'll address your pain points.

Next patch, the only 5-lifers will be default Rebel/Stormie, and the 4-lifes have had their power curbed somewhat.

Legends is a work-in-progress like every other mode in this game, and as new features become available to us it might feel more and more like that, but hopefully it's not an "infinite early access" feeling. We'll do our best to keep it polished.

As far as Mara Jade goes, let this be a reminder to all girls and boys everywhere not to forget their underscores when writing character files.

I have never heard of crashing with Bo Katan's jetpack, is this to menu or desktop? Do you have the crash logs? Mods installed? More details would help.

Saved and maybe default builds will be implemented eventually. Trust me, we know how annoying it is.

Would very much like to bring back removed characters, some require new abilities to do them justice, and some were stability risks but most of that has been fixed internally.

!spin is unrelated to Legends.

Not sure what to say about Trip Mines and Toxic Taunt, I am so used to the way they are and just consider them funny, uncommon aspects of the mode. Could probably implement ranks to Trip Mines eventually to have better control over their power/visibility.

Glad you like it overall, I am proud of the way it has been turning out and plan to keep contributing for a while.
 
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Appreciate the write up and the color coding for my low attention span, I'll address your pain points.

Next patch, the only 5-lifers will be default Rebel/Stormie, and the 4-lifes have had their power curbed somewhat.

Legends is a work-in-progress like every other mode in this game, and as new features become available to us it might feel more and more like that, but hopefully it's not an "infinite early access" feeling. We'll do our best to keep it polished.

As far as Mara Jade goes, let this be a reminder to all girls and boys everywhere not to forget their underscores when writing character files.

I have never heard of crashing with Bo Katan's jetpack, is this to menu or desktop? Do you have the crash logs? Mods installed? More details would help.

Saved and maybe default builds will be implemented eventually. Trust me, we know how annoying it is.

Would very much like to bring back removed characters, some require new abilities to do them justice, and some were stability risks but most of that has been fixed internally.

!spin is unrelated to Legends.

Not sure what to say about Trip Mines and Toxic Taunt, I am so used to the way they are and just consider them funny, uncommon aspects of the mode. Could probably implement ranks to Trip Mines eventually to have better control over their power/visibility.

Glad you like it overall, I am proud of the way it has been turning out and plan to keep contributing for a while.

Regarding the Bo Katan crash issue, it's to desktop. I run Windows 10 installation with MBII OpenJK and Rend2. I thought it was just me until a few days ago someone complained about always crashing when playing Bo Katan. It also happens to me when spectating her.
===================================
JKA Movie Battles II Crash Log
===================================
Process File Name: C:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Jedi Academy\GameData\mbii.x86.exe
Module File Name: rd-rend2-mbii_x86.dll (cgame)
Exception Code: 0xC0000005 (Access Violation)
Exception Address: 0x60CAD106 (rd-rend2-mbii_x86.dll+0x4D106)

-----------------------------------
Register Dump
-----------------------------------
General Purpose & Control Registers:
EAX: 0x56FD45D4, EBX: 0xF9D34FA1, ECX: 0x88045300
EDX: 0x10F1B6F4, EBP: 0x003CDA94, EDI: 0x88045300
EIP: 0x60CAD106, ESI: 0x00000000, ESP: 0x003CDA88

Segment Registers:
CS: 0x00000023, DS: 0x0000002B, ES: 0x0000002B
FS: 0x00000053, GS: 0x0000002B, SS: 0x0000002B

-----------------------------------
Call Stack Trace
-----------------------------------
rd-rend2-mbii_x86.dll(GetRefAPI+0x8896) [0x60CAD106]
rd-rend2-mbii_x86.dll(GetRefAPI+0x8993) [0x60CAD203]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x2BD94) [0xF2B014]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEFE811]
OJK72D1.tmp(dllEntry+0x1E00) [0x56F64180]
OJK72D1.tmp [0x56F180C0]
OJK72D1.tmp(dllEntry+0xBD63) [0x56F6E0E3]
OJK72D1.tmp(dllEntry+0xCDD4) [0x56F6F154]
OJK72D1.tmp(dllEntry+0x4C23) [0x56F66FA3]
OJK72D1.tmp(vmMain+0x7F) [0x56F2DD7F]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEFE5A1]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x297E2) [0xF28A62]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x282EF) [0xF2756F]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x3E961) [0xF3DBE1]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x3F372) [0xF3E5F2]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEEBD77]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x76E0A) [0xF7608A]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEE10D5]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEE1135]
KERNEL32.DLL(BaseThreadInitThunk+0x19) [0x76ADFCC9]
ntdll.dll(RtlGetAppContainerNamedObjectPath+0x11E) [0x7794809E]
ntdll.dll(RtlGetAppContainerNamedObjectPath+0xEE) [0x7794806E]

The issue with 5-lives in my opinion is more about the time waste than the power balance. Even if you are throwing yourself at the enemy there's few maps with enough time to make use of all the lives.

With the Trip Mines, anything to make them more effective against enemies than allies would be a good change. One option is making the wire only trigger on enemies. Another option is making the laser wire visible only to allies. Frankly it's also a good and simple option to just replace trip mines with det packs in character loadouts, since det packs have much more skill expression and fill a similar niche while being underutilized.

I may be thinking of the wrong ability with Toxic Taunt, I mean whatever that ability that poisons people in an AOE. Maybe it's Acid Blood? I'm totally fine with hitscan poison attacks like poison darts. I just don't like the poison that applies in a big area whatever that ability is.

Is there any info on what specific characters are undergoing a rework? Also is there a public list of cut and planned Legends characters? It would be neat to see what is slated to return or be introduced to the mode.
 

Goosto

FA / Legends Contributor
Internal Beta Team
Posts
49
Likes
50
Regarding the Bo Katan crash issue, it's to desktop. I run Windows 10 installation with MBII OpenJK and Rend2. I thought it was just me until a few days ago someone complained about always crashing when playing Bo Katan. It also happens to me when spectating her.
===================================
JKA Movie Battles II Crash Log
===================================
Process File Name: C:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\Jedi Academy\GameData\mbii.x86.exe
Module File Name: rd-rend2-mbii_x86.dll (cgame)
Exception Code: 0xC0000005 (Access Violation)
Exception Address: 0x60CAD106 (rd-rend2-mbii_x86.dll+0x4D106)

-----------------------------------
Register Dump
-----------------------------------
General Purpose & Control Registers:
EAX: 0x56FD45D4, EBX: 0xF9D34FA1, ECX: 0x88045300
EDX: 0x10F1B6F4, EBP: 0x003CDA94, EDI: 0x88045300
EIP: 0x60CAD106, ESI: 0x00000000, ESP: 0x003CDA88

Segment Registers:
CS: 0x00000023, DS: 0x0000002B, ES: 0x0000002B
FS: 0x00000053, GS: 0x0000002B, SS: 0x0000002B

-----------------------------------
Call Stack Trace
-----------------------------------
rd-rend2-mbii_x86.dll(GetRefAPI+0x8896) [0x60CAD106]
rd-rend2-mbii_x86.dll(GetRefAPI+0x8993) [0x60CAD203]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x2BD94) [0xF2B014]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEFE811]
OJK72D1.tmp(dllEntry+0x1E00) [0x56F64180]
OJK72D1.tmp [0x56F180C0]
OJK72D1.tmp(dllEntry+0xBD63) [0x56F6E0E3]
OJK72D1.tmp(dllEntry+0xCDD4) [0x56F6F154]
OJK72D1.tmp(dllEntry+0x4C23) [0x56F66FA3]
OJK72D1.tmp(vmMain+0x7F) [0x56F2DD7F]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEFE5A1]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x297E2) [0xF28A62]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x282EF) [0xF2756F]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x3E961) [0xF3DBE1]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x3F372) [0xF3E5F2]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEEBD77]
mbii.x86.exe(openjk_minizip_malloc+0x76E0A) [0xF7608A]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEE10D5]
mbii.x86.exe [0xEE1135]
KERNEL32.DLL(BaseThreadInitThunk+0x19) [0x76ADFCC9]
ntdll.dll(RtlGetAppContainerNamedObjectPath+0x11E) [0x7794809E]
ntdll.dll(RtlGetAppContainerNamedObjectPath+0xEE) [0x7794806E]

The issue with 5-lives in my opinion is more about the time waste than the power balance. Even if you are throwing yourself at the enemy there's few maps with enough time to make use of all the lives.

With the Trip Mines, anything to make them more effective against enemies than allies would be a good change. One option is making the wire only trigger on enemies. Another option is making the laser wire visible only to allies. Frankly it's also a good and simple option to just replace trip mines with det packs in character loadouts, since det packs have much more skill expression and fill a similar niche while being underutilized.

I may be thinking of the wrong ability with Toxic Taunt, I mean whatever that ability that poisons people in an AOE. Maybe it's Acid Blood? I'm totally fine with hitscan poison attacks like poison darts. I just don't like the poison that applies in a big area whatever that ability is.

Is there any info on what specific characters are undergoing a rework? Also is there a public list of cut and planned Legends characters? It would be neat to see what is slated to return or be introduced to the mode.
My constituents tell me the crash happens due to REND2, try another renderer.

Yeah Acid Blood is a little retarded but it is very rare and only applies ~10 damage in a small AoE on death. An interesting change would be if it only applied if you got killed by a non-Melee/Saber weapon, so it could be avoided.

Some times we'll post updates in the Legends feedback over at Join the Movie Battles II Discord Server! or I'll leak something in in-game chat when I get bored, it is not too secretive.
 
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I can't believe they are gonna change my comfort character, droid with 1 rocket and a sniper rifle x5 times in a round :leialove:
 

icewithmilk

Internal Beta Team
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Legends is a rubbish mode meant for noobs who can’t get a high KDA playing open. The only fun aspect about legends is trolling and spamming explosives.
While not entirely wrong, it’s not entirely true either; it’s true that Legends effectively lowers the skill floor, by giving more respawns, more EHP and more grenades and noob tubes and also largely circumventing the need to learn how to how to build a class, since most classes are pre-built.

BUT I think a lot of people seem to miss that the skill ceiling is higher, depending on what class you pick. While maybe not as plenty as the noob-friendly options, there definitely are classes that newer players will struggle a lot more on, while an experienced player can potentially do better on that same class than if they had picked a class with a lower skill floor. By being given more abilities and tools to juggle at once, skilled/knowledgeable players are rewarded.

Another aspect that raises the ceiling is class knowledge; the more Legends you play the more familiar you become with all of the many different classes and how they interact with/match up against each other. The same thing can be seen on other team-based PvP games with unique characters, like Overwatch or League of Legends. Hero/champ knowledge is a big contributor to the high skill ceiling and competitiveness of those games.

Look at dueling in MB2 as another example; I think most players would agree one of the biggest problems with dueling is how hard it is for new players to pick it up, AKA the skill floor is too high… but at the same time most people who are actually skilled at dueling, who’ve actually been playing and enjoying it for years would agree that the sky-high skill ceiling is what keeps them playing. So somehow the skill floor needs to be lowered to accommodate new players, while the ceiling needs to remain untouched, or ideally raised even further, in order to not ruin the experience of the people who have been dueling for years.

And that’s pretty much what I think Legends does for Open: it lowers the barrier of entry for new players while giving experienced players more toys to play with, more options to juggle at once. Obviously the mode isn’t perfect, I think more fixes and balance changes are in order… but I also definitely think it deserves a better reputation than it simply being a nooby spamfest
 
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Look at dueling in MB2 as another example; I think most players would agree one of the biggest problems with dueling is how hard it is for new players to pick it up, AKA the skill floor is too high… but at the same time most people who are actually skilled at dueling, who’ve actually been playing and enjoying it for years would agree that the sky-high skill ceiling is what keeps them playing. So somehow the skill floor needs to be lowered to accommodate new players, while the ceiling needs to remain untouched, or ideally raised even further, in order to not ruin the experience of the people who have been dueling for years.
Not just that, but there isn't many dueling guides or tutorials for new players. Most of them are outdated.
 

Jvne

Internal Beta Team
US Official Server Admin
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And that’s pretty much what I think Legends does for Open: it lowers the barrier of entry for new players while giving experienced players more toys to play with, more options to juggle at once. Obviously the mode isn’t perfect, I think more fixes and balance changes are in order… but I also definitely think it deserves a better reputation than it simply being a nooby spamfest
I think legends is fun occasionally, and I agree that it lowers the barrier for entry for newer players, but it's not feeding into open pop. It's not lowering the entry for open it's completely removing any reason to access it. Why would new players play/learn open mode when they just spent all this time learning Overwatch SW?
I don't know how to "fix" open being mostly dead atm and I don't have any suggestions so I wont say much, but it does make me very sad to see it empty almost 24/7, often times I just close the launcher after seeing only legends poped and just go play something else.
 
Last edited:

icewithmilk

Internal Beta Team
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I think legends is fun occasionally, and I agree that it lowers the barrier for entry for newer players, but it's not feeding into open pop. It's not lowering the entry for open it's completely removing it. Why would new players play/learn open mode when they just spent all this time learning Overwatch SW?
I don't know how to "fix" open being mostly dead atm and I don't have any suggestions so I wont say much, but it does make me very sad to see it empty almost 24/7, often times I just close the launcher after seeing only legends poped and just go play something else.
Yeah I've been playing a lot of Legends tbh, and it's been a while since I've seen you around in-game... hopefully Open gets a resurgence in pop in the near future, or maybe you'll develop more of a taste for Legends who knows

I definitely had to cope for a while with all the extra nades, respawns and juggernauts running around, but eventually I found a couple classes I really liked playing and it kinda clicked for me after that and I've been really enjoying Legends... with that said if those classes ever get ruined in the future and the mode trends more towards the noob/spam side of it then you'll probably be seeing me in Open a lot more again lol
 
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