Jedi damage reduction

[NERO]

This gets talked about here and there but I wanted to make a thread solely about it because every other thread discusses like 50 different ideas and damage reduction gets drowned under walls of text. Even if there were a shitton of discussion about this I still want to bring more of it just because it's the most severe issue in the game at this moment.

I haven't touched this game for months now. I've played MBII for 9-10 years and it's my favorite shooter but every time I even consider booting the game I'm instantly discouraged.
Why?

Rhetorical bullshit aside, the issue: jedi damage reduction. It's insane. I've been in situations where somebody sec fragged a sith into the air, we riddled him with an E-11 and Clone Rifle 3 for that period hitting majority of the shots, nepper lands and acts like nothing happened and just cuts the other guy in half. Somehow they still have force to deflect all my CR3 shots for about a 5 meter distance and kill me. Sure, could've played better, could've shot better, but it's still ridiculous how they should've died at least two times by then but they keep walking. It's been maybe a month or two since this and it's still burned in my mind like some kinda traumatic war memory.

Jedi is my most played class, should be happy I can tank-a-ton. Not really. Whenever I pick up jedi these days I feel more encouraged to just run at a pile of 4-5 gunners, tank their shots and take at least 3 down with me before I die. Unless they all hit my head or knock me down I'm not dying. More certain to help my team than trying to play carefully. Unless you wanna just play support but with this experience I'd rather let 'er rip a little. Even if they knock me down it may not help at all since the magical space button makes knocking down jedi completely useless unless you've got really good aim.

Jedi don't have to execute against gunners well while gunners have to hit almost every shot and likely use a knockdown ability as well.

Damage reduction was brought back because the style passives were removed for not fitting in. I guess it was fine to remove the passives if it really didn't fit the devs design ideas but replacing them with a nigh-broken mechanic was a severe mistake. Should at least reduce the damage redux to 10 percent or replace it with a placeholder mechanic that is helpful but doesn't take too long to implement.

Might be there's been an official statement about this that would satisfy me but I can't find jack on these forums anymore and they're discouraging to check daily anyway when majority of threads are proposing modern shooter mechanics, some kinda crazy move crap for every class or people RPing as robots.

 

[Smee]

It's easier than ever to kill Jedi thanks to flinch, even a single soldier now has a 50/50 chance if they are anyway decent at the game. SBDs can wreck Jedi easier than ever, Bounty Hunters, Dekas, Commanders, all can easily destroy them. In previous builds it was far less difficult for jedi to mow down a group of gunners, now it is far, far harder.

 

[NERO]

That's contrary to my experience

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

Flinch makes killing jedi so easy it's absolutely necessary for there to be the amount of damage reduction there is now. Jedi are a joke if you try to play against a gunner with good situation control.

 

[Damn Polak]

imo since introduction of flinch & DR it's like this:
- much harder now to fight against multiple saberists with an e-11
- no more bs red style DR, now saber style makes less difference for gunners
- much easier to 1v1 a jedi using deka
- @Shady or someone mentioned ingame that lightning might be op vs less mobile gunner classes
- almost all the sith skerd of wooks
- suspect push overuse less punishing due to DR and saberists' quick getup takes too few fp

Sure, could've played better

yeah, get good
after they nerf the saberists, you'll have the upper hand due to your training

 

[Jediknight Fou]

Lightning isnt op, gunner have to stay away from sith, if they so close to get affected by lightning its their fault.

 

[Helix]

Lightning is OP af in good hands, no gunner of any skill can't do anything (I'm being totally serious right now).
It needs to be nerfed/reworked.

 

[Jediknight Fou]

Lightning is fine as it is. Keeps flinchnoobs at distance.
If you rush to get one cheap flinchkill and you get fried or stunned and sabered, its your own fault.
Gunners have to keep some distance...it seems they never learn.^^

 

[StarWarsGeek]

Lightning is fine as it is. Keeps flinchnoobs at distance.
If you rush to get one cheap flinchkill and you get fried or stunned and sabered, its your own fault.
Gunners have to keep some distance...it seems they never learn.^^

So if they have to keep a distance, there's nothing they can do if a sith is defending a small chokepoint. How is that balanced?

 

[Smee]

So if they have to keep a distance, there's nothing they can do if a sith is defending a small chokepoint. How is that balanced?

Because it's their own fault for getting into a small chokepoint with sith. Unless you want gunners to be equal with sith at close range?

 

[Jediknight Fou]

They can concentrate fire or throw nades(if you dont waste them early)?
Everyone mentions teamwork, but if it comes to jedi/sith, it seems everyone want some kind of feature so they can handle them alone even as soldier.
Lightning (and pushspam) in this build is just the answer to flinch.
Myself only uses lightning if there are many clones, but i can understand every sith who use it always.

 

[Smee]

Also if something is only OP in good hands it isn't OP. Every class in the game can be considered OP in good hands.

 

[NERO]

So what the fuck? I'm supposed to hug a jedi so that their saber fucks off to the side so I can get shots in?
Instead of just the good old dynamic of reducing FP and using knockdowns. Which was fun for both sides and worked fine until reducing that FP was completely useless when your shots don't do jack.
Unless flinch has completely changed it's meaning somehow and nobody has bothered to explain how.

I also like fancy words like 'situation control' when I have no idea how flinch is even related to that.

 

[Smee]

So what the F**k? I'm supposed to hug a jedi so that their saber fucks off to the side so I can get shots in?
Instead of just the good old dynamic of reducing FP and using knockdowns. Which was fun for both sides and worked fine until reducing that FP was completely useless when your shots don't do jack.
Unless flinch has completely changed it's meaning somehow and nobody has bothered to explain how.

I also like fancy words like 'situation control' when I have no idea how flinch is even related to that.

FP is still reduced by shots and you can still easily knock them down. Flinch is another easy way to get kills as a gunner

 

[NERO]

FP is still reduced by shots and you can still easily knock them down.

I've been in situations where somebody sec fragged a sith into the air, we riddled him with an E-11 and Clone Rifle 3 for that period hitting majority of the shots, nepper lands and acts like nothing happened and just cuts the other guy in half. Somehow they still have force to deflect all my CR3 shots for about a 5 meter distance and kill me. Sure, could've played better, could've shot better, but it's still ridiculous how they should've died at least two times by then but they keep walking. It's been maybe a month or two since this and it's still burned in my mind like some kinda traumatic war memory.

And that doesn't change the fact that it's still more worthwhile to just bumrush gunners than playing carefully. Especially if their best tool for killing you is hugging you.

 

[StarWarsGeek]

Because it's their own fault for getting into a small chokepoint with sith. Unless you want gunners to be equal with sith at close range?

So if a you're a gunner and a sith is guarding a chokepoint, do you just sit there and do nothing until you lose by time? It's not a situation that can be avoided unless you just don't play.
And yes, they should be equal at close range. That's the only range they can fight sith because FP drains outside IDR are so small.

 

[Jediknight Fou]

But thats the problem at close range there arent equal now. Jedi/sith have no options in close range because of flinch.
And no they should not be equal at close range, blasters are ranged weapons, jedi/sith have to come close, and on their way they lose many fp if the gunner isnt retarded and misses with every shot.
And if youre at the gunner most of the times you have low fp, get flinchnoobd and death is the reward.
Siths only chance then is lightning, while jedi have to pray push/pull work.

 

[Smee]

So if a you're a gunner and a sith is guarding a chokepoint, do you just sit there and do nothing until you lose by time? It's not a situation that can be avoided unless you just don't play.
And yes, they should be equal at close range. That's the only range they can fight sith because FP drains outside IDR are so small.

This is such a silly point of view. Soldier has 3 lives, sith has 1 and people act like they should be the same strength. In this build gunners are already better than jedi, and if you have problems killing them that says more about your individual skill than the game.

Get good

 

[NERO]

At this point regardless of balance it just feels like we've got a pile of unnecessary features added on an already working concept and as a result it's not enjoyable.
Guess I'll wait for the dev team to do their next crazy change and revert, then. They seem to never make up their minds.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

Flinch should be removed IMO, just bring back the old system whereby when their FP drops below the threshold they take damage and get knocked back a bit with each shot but can still complete their attack animation without being interrupted, unless you kick em down or something.

I mean, was I the only gunner that understood IDR and thought it was fine? you just kept your distance from jedi/sith and you could drain their FP incredibly easily, if you get too close you drain less and if you are too far you drain less but if you work on your footwork and stayed at a certain distance, you could abuse IDR so easily and drain FP so fast it was crazy as well but at least the saberist could counter it and you could make mistakes on your part by getting too close/too far or even running when you should have walked to maintain distance, flinch has no counter, it's a shit mechanic.

Every class in the game can be considered OP in good hands.

u no it
appo best arc