Ideas from Scrims

[NPC]

I've got a couple of ideas and some feedback after scrimming every week for two years. This first post will just be on the class balance, the second on boarder changes that will have impacts beyond a single class.

Deka: Currently banned in NA scrims. Rather then a full class rebuild or cutting it completely as some have suggested. What about making the deka lasers inaccurate in the same manner as the Mando EE-3, as in it starts perfectly accurate but degrades as the fire button is held down. Not sure if this is possible as I don't recall any vehicles with inaccuracy. The idea is that dekas would be able to send a volley of fire at long range but they wouldn't be able to suppress the long hallway in DotF's on their own. It would also add a bit of a risk-reward factor to force dekas to consider taking fights at closer distances. Maybe higher levels of firepower would reduce the spread or rate at which the spread increases. I know this sounds like a minor nerf, I think it would have large impact and is worth trying before resorting to drastic measures.

If additional nerfing is needed, what about a stagger for the deka if it's hit by an explosive. As in if the deka gets hit by a primary nade or rocket while deployed, it can't un-deploy, shield discharge, or shoot for about 2 seconds and maybe give it a bit of a staggering back onto it's rear leg. Basically give non-emp utility the ability to deal with a deka with some teamwork even if it's a much narrower window then a proper EMP attack.

Mando: Only issue is EE-3, level 2 is completely non-viable compared to Westar pistols 3. While EE-3 level 3 is map dependent at best, usually just a waste compared to pistols and extra points for utility. I don't think Mando rocket needs a further nerf but if needed, perhaps make it so the rocket can only be fired in melee.

SBD: Seems fine. Unfortunate that any build without mag plating and battery 2 isn't viable but I'm not sure that can be fixed due to the nature of scrim class restrictions.

Commander: Seems fine. It has a number of builds with all weapons, nades, and abilities being viable on most maps. Dodge T-21 is the strongest but some of the best players still run E-11 and nades,

Bounty Hunter: Seems fine. The ruptor red-light was an elegant nerf that made it a real option to take proj on some maps. They also have viable non-sniper builds on many maps with the DLT-20a. Some people don't like how the DLT-20a is an autopick over the E-11 or pistol 3 but I think that more of a function of the Imperial team lacking the peaking firepower of dodge+A280/caster/M5 sniper in a scrim class-restricted setting.

Elite Trooper: I think ET is fine but many people have complained about dodge-A280 build. Note, I do not think A280 needs another nerf. But if it did, I would suggest reversing the costs and affects of level 2 and level 3. Meaning level 2 would be five points but only give the scope while level 3 would cost 10 points and would unlock burst fire mode. That would mean "A280+dodge+reinforcement = 70 points" which only leaves 10 points for armor, ammo, rally, or sonics rather then the current 15 points. Also note I didn't say anything about the DLT-20a, as messing with it would have major knock-on-affects for Imperials being able to deal with Wookiees and Clones.

Hero: Currently kind of weak unless you take quick-throw. The issue with Hero is quick-throw. If you nerf quick throw to make other abilities more viable you severely weaken Hero, If you buff the other abilities, you risk a Hero taking quick-throw and the buffed ability to be even stronger. Hero's high mobility coupled with quick-throw make it hard for Sith to push many routes without getting knocked down. Heroes can easily capitalize on a quick-throw with pistol 3 or E-11 3 while say Clone blobs are much harder to hit and coupled with the lackluster clone rifle 2. Hero is rarely played as a weak sniper on open maps but is usually played as strong area denial class to zone out the Sith depending on the map.

Clone: Seems fine. The roadmap indicates there's already changes in the works which should hopefully deal with how few viable builds there are for the class.

ARC: The Westar M5 rifle is extremely powerful especially with the scope. It's only limited by the fact it's ammo hungry and that on many maps Rebels need EMP nades and/or bouncy pistols to push certain routes. I would suggest reducing the number of EMP nades ARC can take to one and adding a third level to EMP launcher that gives 1-2 EMP nades for 5-10 points. That way ARC can only get the one EMP nade unless they take a EMP launcher. Also I would suggest adding a second level to the scope for only 4-5 points that makes it accurate while jumping and remove that functionality from Dex 3.

Soldier: Rename to Trooper. Jokes aside, the class if fine. I have some suggestions but they would have broader implications so I will leave them to the next post.

Sith/Jedi/Wookiee: I've personally not played these classes enough for feedback/suggestions.

 

[NPC]

Submachine Gun/Autoblaster: Some of the recent Kotor FA's have played around with a modded clone rifle to make an approximation of a submachine gun. Considering SMG's are one of the only gun types not already in MB2, I think it's reasonable to play around with the idea for an Open mode weapon. My initial thoughts are 15 points for level 1 SMG (let's call it an autoblaster) that has a clip of 15 shots, rate of fire between cr2 and cr3, and 22 damage per bolt. With a level 2 for an additional 5 points that increases the clip to 20 shots. I don't have any ideas for a secondary fire, a burst fire is a possibility but overused currently. I'm apathetic if it should use the standard recharge reload or the M5 magazine style reload, but it certainly shouldn't regen ammo passively. For accuracy, I think it should have the same accuracy no matter if the user is running, walking, jumping, or standing still but it should always have a bit of a spread. Maybe a bit less then E-11 3 secondary fire when running. Total ammo for the autoblaster should be rather limited maybe only 5 full clips at ammo 1, 7 at ammo 2, and 9 at ammo 3.

There's a few different ideas on which class should get access. I initially suggest the Soldier is a possibility so they have another weapon choice but they lack the survivability to close in to use it. Clone has been thrown around and they might be able to make use of it between their sprint and armor. Another possibility I like is give it to Commander and/or Elite Trooper, as they have the speed + dodge to close into use it. Along with that you could consider removing E-11 from Commander and/or Elite Trooper. That would give Soldier more of an identity as the all-arounder class with the Commander/Elite Trooper as the more powerful class but limited depending on the build. Finally, the obvious option would be to relegate the autoblaster to a new class.

Pistol 2: The glorious pistol 2 isn't considering a viable weapon. In fact, buying pistol 2 is usually the last resort for points used only after every other possibility is exhausted. In an effort to make it more viable, considering making pistol 2 unlock the 3-shot-burst. This would probably need some tweaking like increasing the ammo drain of the burst shots, increasing the point value of pistol 2 by 1-2, and/or reducing the total ammo of the pistol 2.

DLT-20a level 1 for Soldier: I like the idea of a cheaper longer range but less versatile alternative for the E-11 on Soldier. Maybe between 10-15 points. I specifically said the DLT as I think have the walking accuracy of the A280 would be overpowered.

Nade Changes: The secondary EMP nade ability gave me an idea to rework frag nades and to a lesser extent concussion nades. Let me lay out the changes.

Concussion Nade - Primary unchanged. Add a secondary to throw it max distance.
Frag Nade - The current frag nade primary for primary. Add a secondary to throw it max distance.
Stun Nade - The current frag nade secondary for primary. Add a secondary to throw it max distance.
Impact Nade - The old frag nade secondary, still seen with Hero quick-throw level 2, for primary. Add a secondary to throw it max distance.
EMP Nade - Unchanged, it already has a secondary max throw.
Sonic Nade - Unchanged, has a secondary that makes sense.
Flame Nade - Unchanged, has a secondary that makes sense.
Thermal Det - Unchanged, as adding a secondary max throw would be horrible to deal with.

With the above changes in mind, take away frags from heroes and replace with impact nades (10-14 points each). Change soldiers so they can only have one concussion (14 points), one frag (16 points), and one stun (10-14 points) nade. That way the 2 and 3 nade sold builds will have a few more points to play around with while not having the power of two concussions nades which is very painful to deal with on many maps. Then for Commander and Elite Trooper, they can take up to two frags for 15 points and/or two stun nades for 10 points as a rough estimate.

 

[NPC]

Personal Shields: Various FA maps have tried to replicate personal shields with regenerating armor or force protect. I think it would be better represented with an limited user ability to differentiate it from dodge. Where dodge can be pierced with headshots or close range, the personal shields would simply be a temporary pool of shields with no locational damage. Dodge can't be used against sabers, I think the shield would be more effective at reducing damage against sabers. For a rough estimate, say 40 shields with the cortosis 1 modifer for 10 seconds. Additional levels of shields would add more activations rather then hp or duration. Maybe make melee attacks, projs, and ruptors pierce the shield for lore.

While the personal shield could be used on a new class or on Commander to further differentiate it from Elite Trooper, I think it would be best used on Soldier to give them some pushing power without giving them a more powerful weapon and to make them less dependent on nades to get things done.

 

[NPC]

Reflection on Imperial Classes: Soldier, Mando, and SBD, could use a few more options for verity but are generally in a good place. Commander, Bounty Hunter, and Sith don't really need anything compared to the rest of the classes. Deka is consider overpower to the point of broken on most maps.

New Imperial Classes: If new classes were to be considered, Imperials could use another 2-lifer class capable of providing utility. Imperials have lots of firepower in terms of blasters but are a bit lighter in nades and the ability to zone out areas like melee Wookie or a Clone with blobs. They especially don't have any survivability abilities for most gunner classes other then dodge on the Commander. Maybe some sort of melee weapon so the Sith doesn't have to risk themselves to push a melee Wookie out of a position.

Reflection on Rebel Classes: Soldier, Wookie, and Clone could use a few more options for verity but are generally in a good place. Elite Trooper and Jedi don't really need anything as they already have many viable builds. Hero is reliant on quick-throw and to a lesser extend proj to make it viable. ARC on the other hand, while it's hard to make a build with ARC that isn't good. That sounds like a good thing but it's not. ARC's have the two of the best guns in the game both of which are highly accurate and effective against just about everything, a very good sniper, they're the only class able to take more then one rocket, they have the best nade in the game in the EMP's, they have several ways to deliver EMP's (normal nade, secondary max throw, nade launcher, emp rocket), they have high hp/armor, they have good speed with sprint, good mobility with dex, and even resistance to push/pull/nades with dex 3. Yes ARC's can't get all that in one build but they can always get a lot of it. In the current game state, Rebels are often dependent on ARC in scrims to the point that the best player is automatically on ARC for every map.

Considering the following as a rough draft to rebalance Rebels: Remove cr3 from Clone and refocus the class on being a 2-lifer with lots of non-nade utility. Add the cr3 to ARC as the Z-6 Rotary Cannon for 50 points and remove dex 3. I'm tempted to completely remove dex from ARC (but keep sprint), that way it would be the heavy weapons class and cr3 would be separated from blobs making balancing both easier. Maybe tie a bigger jump to stamina 3 give ARC and Clone a reason to take it.

Also remove proj from Hero. Refocus the class on being a high mobility, high survivability, but low endurance skirmisher. Give them smoke nades and grappling hook (hook with a sniper rifle seems like a terrible idea). Also see my above changes for nades. Maybe replace E-11 with the Autoblaster concept on the first post. Heck if anyone could code a scattergun that isn't brokenly OP, this would be the class for it. Oh and rename the class to Scoundrel, I don't know why that was missed in the original design.

Now we have proj and dex as a starting point to build a new class for Rebels, call it Infiltrator. If you don't like removing dex from ARC, remove EMP's and/or rockets instead and give them to the new Rebel class along with proj, call it Saboteur.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

Deka: Rather then a full class rebuild or cutting it completely as some have suggested.

Deka will be getting a rebuild. It is just completely non-viable to have a class like that with infinite resources (shield and ammo) and that is the main thing that is going to change, but it of course will have other knock on changes and tweaks to basically every other element of deka as a result.

Mando: Only issue is EE-3

EE-3 is getting a complete rework, it will not at all be the same gun.

SBD: Seems fine. Unfortunate that any build without mag plating and battery 2 isn't viable but I'm not sure that can be fixed due to the nature of scrim class restrictions.

Once again getting a complete rework

Submachine Gun/Autoblaster: Some of the recent Kotor FA's have played around with a modded clone rifle to make an approximation of a submachine gun. Considering SMG's are one of the only gun types not already in MB2, I think it's reasonable to play around with the idea for an Open mode weapon.

You will start to see more weapon types in MB2 in the future. We fairly recently got past the limitation of only 19 weapons being possible. And are in the process of designing new weapons with hopefully the first one to ship to public in the next couple months. One of the weapons being worked on is closer, but not exactly to a submachine gun. One of the new class concepts centers around more close range stuff, which includes a sub machine gun, but that is a bit farther off.

There's a few different ideas on which class should get access. I initially suggest the Soldier is a possibility so they have another weapon choice but they lack the survivability to close in to use it. Clone has been thrown around and they might be able to make use of it between their sprint and armor.

Clone will definitely be getting a new weapon in the future, possibly two. Soldiers may also be getting new weapons but we haven't ironed out the concepts on those.

Personal Shields: Various FA maps have tried to replicate personal shields with regenerating armor or force protect. I think it would be better represented with an limited user ability to differentiate it from dodge. Where dodge can be pierced with headshots or close range, the personal shields would simply be a temporary pool of shields with no locational damage. Dodge can't be used against sabers, I think the shield would be more effective at reducing damage against sabers. For a rough estimate, say 40 shields with the cortosis 1 modifer for 10 seconds. Additional levels of shields would add more activations rather then hp or duration. Maybe make melee attacks, projs, and ruptors pierce the shield for lore.

While the personal shield could be used on a new class or on Commander to further differentiate it from Elite Trooper, I think it would be best used on Soldier to give them some pushing power without giving them a more powerful weapon and to make them less dependent on nades to get things done.

You may see more shielding related stuff in the future, but probably not for existing classes.

Reflection on Imperial Classes: Soldier, Mando, and SBD, could use a few more options for verity but are generally in a good place.

All getting new options, or likely will be getting new options (Confirming yes new stuff for SBD and Mando, soldier is a maybe).

New Imperial Classes: If new classes were to be considered, Imperials could use another 2-lifer class capable of providing utility. Imperials have lots of firepower in terms of blasters but are a bit lighter in nades and the ability to zone out areas like melee Wookie or a Clone with blobs. They especially don't have any survivability abilities for most gunner classes other then dodge on the Commander. Maybe some sort of melee weapon so the Sith doesn't have to risk themselves to push a melee Wookie out of a position.

New classes are 100% on the table, and we have a couple ideals. And yes a class with a melee weapon is one of them.

Reflection on Rebel Classes: Soldier, Wookie, and Clone could use a few more options for verity but are generally in a good place.

Yup, like Imperial side these are getting new options in the future.

Considering the following as a rough draft to rebalance Rebels: Remove cr3 from Clone and refocus the class on being a 2-lifer with lots of non-nade utility.

CR3 isn't going to be removed from clones, but the minigun will likely be made into its own weapon.

Also remove proj from Hero. Refocus the class on being a high mobility, high survivability, but low endurance skirmisher.

Likely to happen, don't have anything fully concrete but we have ideas to try.

 

[Valkyrie]

As Mace mention there is alot of rework that are planned. That could be nice to get a rough plans of what is the team working on recently and lately. I know of the Trello (Development roadmap) A forum post like with alot of clarification maybe, thanks already for the informations given above. It's goldmine

 

[MaceMadunusus]

A forum post like with alot of clarification maybe

We will have a larger update on a couple items in about a month and a half.