Future(s) of Sabering: Style rework

Stassin

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Along with Tempest's improvements of sabering mechanics such as PB combo-break, perfect parries or nudge toggle, i would like to propose a revamp of the styles and their roles for better diversity, because in the current system even though we've tried to differentiate styles with perks and such, some of them still very much feel like duplicates.

The core reason behind what i'm proposing is that blue/yellow/red still remain the "basic" styles that have the best animations (most beautiful) and the best coherence because their roles are inherently clear (no perks needed to differentiate them), giving the best gameplay experience by themselves.

So i want to keep blue/yellow/red as basic styles, while giving the role of "specialized" styles to cyan/purple/duals/staff.

An example of implications would be as follows:

Blue/Yellow/Red would still cost 8 points, while Cyan/Purple/Duals/Staff would now cost 16 points.

Blue
No longer has perks. AP/BP values are kept as they are.

Yellow
No longer has perks. AP/BP values are kept as they are.

Red
No longer has perks. AP value possibly increased from 15 to 16 to compensate for the loss of its perk.

Cyan
Light defense specialist. Strong versus light gunner classes.
AP/BP values are kept as they are.
Sabering perk now relies on performing a successful perfect parry (as Tempest is suggesting). Effect of the perk is to stagger the opponent (if he is using a style other than cyan).
Perk versus guns added. Synergy with Saber Deflect. Allows to deflect automatically by simply holding attack while blocking (instead of tapping attack). With saber deflect level 0, no perk. Saber deflect level 1, Cyan is able to deflect 1 shot every 750ms, cannot deflect at close range. Saber deflect level 2, Cyan is able to deflect 1 shot every 500ms, can deflect at close range. Saber deflect level 3, Cyan is able to deflect 1 shot every 250ms, can deflect at close range.
Contrary to the normal saber deflect, there is no cost for holding attack.

(For reference, the current usual saber deflect is as follows: level 1, deflects by tapping attack, every tap costs 5 FP, cannot deflect at close range, the cooldown between taps which can result in a deflect is 200ms. Level 2, same as level 1 but a tap costs 3 FP and can deflect at close range. Level 3, a tap costs 1 FP.)

Cyan would thus have good defense in saber vs saber due to being able to repel attacks, giving some breathing room to run or opening up the careless opponent for a teammate to snipe him. Cyan, paired with Saber Deflect, would also be strong against light classes in saber vs gun, due to being able to deflect at them more easily to weaken their HP and then finish them with a saber swing (which still does weak damage like blue style, i.e. 120 HP).

Purple
Heavy offense specialist. Strong versus heavy gunner classes.
AP/BP values are kept as they are.
Sabering perk remains the same: +1 ACM on a full Perfect Block.
Perk versus guns added. Q3, i.e. ability to automatically deflect shots while attacking without holding block. Q3 can be disabled for a swing by holding class special 1 during this swing. Q3 has good synergy with Saber Defense 3 because Saber Defense 3 removes the extra FP drain on shots that are blocked while attacking.

Purple would thus be a good offensive style in saber vs saber due to being able to power up very quickly with the help of well-placed PBs (same as currently, except other styles like yellow would no longer have perks !). Purple, paired with Saber Defense 3, would also be stronger than average against heavy classes like SBDs or Wookiees thanks to Q3.


Duals
Offense and damage specialist.
AP/BP values are kept as they are.
Sabering perk is as Tempest suggests: 0.75x BP drain on chained consecutive swings, rather than the current 0.5x.
Perk versus guns added simply in the form of increased damage. Duals and Staff both currently deal 260 damage per swing (yellow 240, blue/cyan 120, purple 360, red 450), here Duals' damage would be increased to 450 per swing ("realistically" accounting for the character wielding two blades).

With its quick swings and very quick chains, Duals would benefit more from chains for offense in saber vs saber, enabling to kill opponents faster than other styles. Similarly, in saber vs gun, Duals would be a good option against heavier classes (no Q3 like purple, but great damage and much faster swings).


Staff
Defense and specialist of being outnumbered.
AP/BP values are kept as they are.
Sabering perk and open mode perk would both be the same thing: an vast arc of defense compared to other styles, greatly diminishing risks against backwhacks or backshots. Currently, styles have a 215° blocking arc against sabers and 180° against guns (with the exception of duals and staff which currently have 258° and 240° respectively). Now, the Staff blocking arc would be 300° against sabers and 270° against guns.

Staff would thus be a great defensive style overall and the very best option when outnumbered, whether it be against saberists or gunners.




Now, it's time to answer the critical point which was raised the last time mb2 had a saber vs gun perk system, and one of the reasons it was removed: that gunners be able to tell which style they are up against when a saberist. The issue was that the running animations are the same for all single-blade styles, thus making it impossible to distinguish between them (only duals and staff could be distinguished).

With this perk system, blue/yellow/red are already out of the question since they have no perks, and duals/staff already do not have this problem. Which only leaves purple and cyan. There aren't many options to solve this problem, and one i thought of would be to give purple the same running animations as duals, and cyan the same running animations as staff. Thus in open mode, you would be able to tell if a saberist has purple or cyan because they would have a single-blade saber yet the same animations as what a staff-user or a duals-user would usually have. This unfortunately excludes backwards running animations since those are hopelessly all the same for all styles. But it's already a great improvement compared to the previous perk system especially since the perks i'm proposing here are much, much more balanced and coherent (they aren't some "magically increased FP regen", but rather something that can be directly linked to what the characater is focusing on when it comes to wielding his blade: focus on different possibilities of projectile deflection, damage-dealing etc.).

(Note: in FA, since some characters are given staff/white or duals/green style even though they're wielding a single-bladed saber, with these changes one would no longer be able to tell whether they're using white/green or cyan/purple; but that's a minor inconvenience).
 
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Stassin

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Is deflect considered weak? I was under the impression it was just considered boring. As a gunner, when I meet a D3 player I feel like I lose all my options.

Although... can a force user push immediately after deflecting? If they can, then they can kill me for dodging their deflects, meaning I effectively can't attack them. But if they can't then I can run for a moment after each deflect.
They can. Deflect is weak because once a gunner has noticed a jedi with deflect, he can just stop shooting at him as long as the jedi isn't too close. When the jedi gets very close and still tries to deflect, the gunner can shoot him reliably because deflect forces the jedi to walk making him an easy target; deflect is then weak because the FP drain at that range is too high for the jedi to hope to kill the gunner with deflected shots before he himself reaches 0 FP (might work vs soldiers or low HP gunners) and the gunner can make deflecting difficult by changing his aim on the jedi (aiming at the feet, then if the jedi adapts, changing again). Side-stepping and walking very quickly also helps to dodge some deflected shots while keeping the risk of being pushed/pulled to a minimum (committing to a push or even a pull while he's being shot at within very close range, trying to deflect, is quite a risk for the jedi, a fail will leave him with little FP at best, if it's a push he might even die; he can jump but a good gunner will follow that with his aim).

If the gunner is not good enough to pull these things off, then deflect is still of little use because the jedi will have faster/easier success by just swinging his saber.
 
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Is deflect considered weak? I was under the impression it was just considered boring. As a gunner, when I meet a D3 player I feel like I lose all my options.

Yes deflect is not strong. There are many ways to survive/kill a jedi/sith who use D3.
1. Run away. 2. Move while shooting 3. Jumpkick 4. Teamup 5. Grenades 6. Poison -.-

Funny thing, also i still hate flinch, as jedi i deflected shots from enemy gunner to a sith who attacked me. He got flinched and died. xD
 

Lessen

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the gunner can make deflecting difficult by changing his aim on the jedi (aiming at the feet, then if the jedi adapts, changing again)

How does aiming at the feet change blaster deflection? (I've seen people aim at feet a few times but never understood why)
 

Stassin

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How does aiming at the feet change blaster deflection? (I've seen people aim at feet a few times but never understood why)
Lower shots are deflected lower as well (below the jedi's crosshair), so the jedi has to aim higher to hit the same point as a higher deflected shot. Aiming to the sides of the jedi also makes the deflected shots go to the sides of his crosshair. Slightly, but overall this makes aiming harder than a gunner for a deflecting jedi.
 
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No matter how expensive staff or duals get, it's insane to buff those styles. They're already very strong, and now you want to increase the blocking arc of staff even further and incrase duals BP drain? It's already hard to backstab staff users, you'll just make it impossible.
I understand that you'd like to give incentives to make players use different styles in open other than yellow and blue but as of this build I don't think saberists need any buffs at all.

However I think it would be good to open a discussion about gunner classes rebalance accounting for the finch mechanics.
 

AaronAaron

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No matter how expensive staff or duals get, it's insane to buff those styles. They're already very strong, and now you want to increase the blocking arc of staff even further and incrase duals BP drain? It's already hard to backstab staff users, you'll just make it impossible.
If they cost 16 points then they should get a buff like that.
 
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