Feedback relating to saber system

[Rev]

Let me start off by thanking you guys for continuing to develop this mod. It's nice that there's something from my teen years that I can reliably go back to and see (some) improvements.

However I am extremely disappointed with the way the saber system is in its current state. I started playing this mod in b17-- and it feels like ever since then, the sabering system has gone straight down hill. I probably quit playing reliably around 2010 and since then have popped back in here and there.

I've never enjoyed playing gunners in this game (other than ARC trooper) -- so lightsaber wielding has been my go-to for fun. Which is why I am posting this feedback... It's next to impossible for me to enjoy playing this mod right now. I'll fight maybe 4-6 duels before getting frustrated and quitting. I'll practice on duel servers and feel like I get nowhere.

Gone through many different builds of this game and never has the system felt so clunky. I don't believe moviebattles was ever meant to be a twitch saber dueling. This whole mentality of having to twitch your mouse and predict swings is ridiculous. It doesn't encourage you to use anything but yellow stance or one of the two faster stances because your block points just get demolished due to slow swing speeds on any of the other stances leading to interruption.

There's almost NO drain on BP if you miss a swing. Why? If you miss a swing you should be heavily penalized, but that isn't the case anymore.

I have fought against people who had literally just run around chasing after me swinging, while I tactfully land a few combos-- but somehow they outmatch my BP drain just by swinging fast (and missing.) This is great if you're young and twitchy and you have perfect ping and reflexes to predict swings and twitch your mouse to whatever angle you think the next combo hit is going to come from...

But I truly believe that isn't what lightsaber combat / dueling in this game should be about. We have so many other games where twitch reactions are prominent... There's games like For Honour, Mordhau, Mount & Blade... why did that combat mentality have to transfer over to Movie battles?

This game used to be about who could do better combos and time mblocks to maybe disarm your opponent. It used to be about slow paced fights that felt like the movies, like Anakin fighting Obi-wan on Mustafar.

It doesn't feel like that anymore... maybe it's rose tinted glasses, but judging by the general consensus I see everytime I say "B17 was better" in literally any server, I'm convinced it's not nostalgia.

I'm not saying go back to b17(maybe I am) but what the saber system is right now is not fun. And I'm certainly not the only person who feels this way.

 

[SeV]

The thing about the current saber system is that it's too narrowminded. It is most definitely way better strictly for dueling 1v1 jedi/sith competitive but for 1v2 or any open mode, it starts to feel out of place. Rather than going back, there were some interesting things being worked on in the beta, but I don't know if they will ever see the light of day before we are all 80 years old. I don't think reverting is feasible, but designing with open mode in mind whilst keeping the current high skill system is probably good. I am personally bored of the aimed PB game and would like to see something more dynamic and fun based, where each style plays very distinctly and is akin to a lightsaber form with perks and nifty tricks, that still retains the high skill cap of the current system. I think it's possible, but it requires devs to work and I would also argue that any such revamped saber system needs to be available in open beta constantly, so that anyone can test it both in open and duel and in 1vx.

B17 was fucking fun, wacky and unbalanced and buggy, but fucking fun. Current development ideology is less about wacky fun stuff and more about uber balance. This is wrong. Fun and depth should be the main things, that way people play for fun and stay for depth. Currently, the depth of skill is there but it's not fun, it feels more like a chore to duel nowadays, whereas in the old days there was always tension and it felt more dynamic.

 

[JamJarBinks]

Add 7 saber forms.

Add bw & sw protection, at high bp penalty to make 2v1 fun again.

Increase slap cooldown

???

Profit.

 

[Rev]

B17 was fucking fun, wacky and unbalanced and buggy, but fucking fun. Current development ideology is less about wacky fun stuff and more about uber balance. This is wrong. Fun and depth should be the main things, that way people play for fun and stay for depth. Currently, the depth of skill is there but it's not fun, it feels more like a chore to duel nowadays, whereas in the old days there was always tension and it felt more dynamic.

Agreed. I find games that focus too hard on balance instead of what makes it "fun" tends to die off faster than if the focus is on enjoyment of playing.

Of course if something is so unbalanced that people do nothing else but play that, then it's a problem

 

[Mcbober]

The thing about the current saber system is that it's too narrowminded. It is most definitely way better strictly for dueling 1v1 jedi/sith competitive but for 1v2 or any open mode, it starts to feel out of place. Rather than going back, there were some interesting things being worked on in the beta, but I don't know if they will ever see the light of day before we are all 80 years old. I don't think reverting is feasible, but designing with open mode in mind whilst keeping the current high skill system is probably good. I am personally bored of the aimed PB game and would like to see something more dynamic and fun based, where each style plays very distinctly and is akin to a lightsaber form with perks and nifty tricks, that still retains the high skill cap of the current system. I think it's possible, but it requires devs to work and I would also argue that any such revamped saber system needs to be available in open beta constantly, so that anyone can test it both in open and duel and in 1vx.

B17 was fucking fun, wacky and unbalanced and buggy, but fucking fun. Current development ideology is less about wacky fun stuff and more about uber balance. This is wrong. Fun and depth should be the main things, that way people play for fun and stay for depth. Currently, the depth of skill is there but it's not fun, it feels more like a chore to duel nowadays, whereas in the old days there was always tension and it felt more dynamic.

I don't always agree with everything you say, but well said, Sev. I think I agree with most of your points here. The current sabering DOES feel like it was made for 1vs1 fighting game esque duels. I know we have a pretty dedicated group of duelists in the community who love this stuff, and it's not really right of me to say they shouldn't have this, but I will say that what we have doesn't fit Open mode or regular gameplay. I feel like 2vs1s are next to impossible right now with having your swings canceled when you get hit, letting multiple players easily lock you out of taking any actions. The aimed PB stuff also doesn't feel suited for blocking hits from multiple opponents at once, or when you're trying to worry about not getting shot while fighting.

I've heard the idea suggested before about having duel mode and open have a different sabering system, and I scoffed at it at first due to maybe teaching players bad habits, but having seen how things are going and how unhappy people are, I think that might be the way to go. Let the duelists have their fighting game mode, and put the regular gamemodes back to something more simple and suited for hectic battles. Rev is just one of a great many players I've seen express how unhappy they are with the current saber system. I think this too might make Stassin, Tempest or whoever wants to work on duel mode be happier, as they'd be able to add as much depth and complexity as they want without as much backlash from the common player.

 

[PuNk]

Make voting public please I want to see who voted yes.