Dual pistol crosshair is inaccurate

[S o l d i e r]

Dual pistol crosshair actually doesn't point accurately where you will fire. The inaccuracy is especially prominent at close and long ranges, but it also depends on the dual pistol crosshair you've chosen. Some crosshairs are better for closer ranges and some for longer ranges, depending on the distance between the two points indicating the first and the second pistol aim on the crosshair. I don't know if it's possible to make an accurate dual crosshair, though, because it would require a dynamic crosshair that changes depending on the distance to the targeted point, while taking into account both pistols separately, and also paying attention to their position.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

It's because by nature of having two positions to fire from, they create a deadzone or a center of convergence, the image below should explain a bit better than I can.

Essentially, because there are multiple positions to fire from the weapon will not hit the same spot all the time and is per-determined by the positioning of the weapon on our characters (extended from the left and right hand rather than close together from the chest). Focus on the cyan lines to see what I mean, by nature of being away from the center, they do not converge on the center point of the crosshair. They have to be angled to converge at a certain distance in order to maximize firepower as no angling means that they will simply travel straight and some will likely always miss.

As a result, up close you will often have to miss deliberately to hit with the pistols as your weapons will not both converge on the point of your crosshair, at long ranges this isn't an issue but up close it's simply a side effect of having the projectiles leave from the weapon model and having the weapon model on the left and right side rather than centered.

I'd love for the devs to replace the ability to toggle between 1 pistol and duals with the ability to change deadzone/convergence, so you can pick between long range with your weapons spreading at close range or angled towards your front from the left and right, something like this image:

Circle representing the player and the lines representing the position and angle of the pistols.

 

[S o l d i e r]

It's inaccurate at really long ranges too. It basically hits one point and your crosshair has two. At close ranges the crosshair is too narrow, at long ranges too wide, since it's made for medium range. At really close range the height is also faulty, and not only the width, as the bolts hit higher than the crosshair (this is also the case when you switch to the one-pistol mode), and at long range the bolts don't hit one point in the middle of the crosshair, as you would suppose they would, but go closer to the right aim of the crosshair. This all I observed while testing with ARC dual pistols and crosshairs number 8 and 16.

 

[DaloLorn]

Perhaps the shots should just always converge on whatever obstacle the crosshair's pointing at. I mean, let's be realistic for a moment - if you're trying to aim at a person, you're not going to suddenly decide to shoot to his sides just because you have two pistols, you'll want to point both of them at roughly the same location. (Whether you'll succeed is another matter, but at point-blank range, which is when the inaccuracy becomes most blatantly obvious regardless of crosshair choice, you'd have a pretty decent chance of achieving convergence. )

 

[Lessen]

Perhaps the shots should just always converge on whatever obstacle the crosshair's pointing at. I mean, let's be realistic for a moment - if you're trying to aim at a person, you're not going to suddenly decide to shoot to his sides just because you have two pistols, you'll want to point both of them at roughly the same location. (Whether you'll succeed is another matter, but at point-blank range, which is when the inaccuracy becomes most blatantly obvious regardless of crosshair choice, you'd have a pretty decent chance of achieving convergence. )

I think this is what Droideka does. (I personally don't like this that much, because you have to lead your shots in this game, so what your crosshair is pointing at can be completely irrelevant to what you're aiming at.)

It's inaccurate at really long ranges too. It basically hits one point and your crosshair has two.

Sort of true. At very long ranges, both shots do land closer to the "right crosshair," but it's worth noting that the two shots still land as far apart as they ever will. It's just that at a certain point the crosshair stops getting smaller and further away.

At really close range the height is also faulty

From what I can tell, some guns always fire from the eyes and other guns always fire from the hips, and the dynamic crosshair believes that all guns always fire from the hips, causing the short range error. This is based on only very slight testing. I have some questions and I'd go through and test all guns to answer them if I had more time right now.

IIRC the CR chaingun's firing point is (or is sometimes?) considerably higher than where the gun is actually placed. Or at some point it was, if it isn't right now. I just remember seeing a chaingun clone firing out of a space aligned more with his neck.

as far as fixes for that, obviously if possible the crosshair and firing height should always acknowledge what height the gun is being held at. And double crosshair should literally be two crosshairs based on the two firing points. I'm imagining that's a big pain in the ass to code, and is one of those things that requires "big fundamental changes" or something like that.

... (then again, if you make it so the firing height changes when your character goes from hip-firing to sight-firing, that would seem to mean you would have to adjust your aim up/down whenever you switch from one state to another, which would be irritating in some contexts. But.. maybe it would be good, really. Make people abuse twitchy movement less.)

 

[Liniyka_xddd]

Perhaps the shots should just always converge on whatever obstacle the crosshair's pointing at. I mean, let's be realistic for a moment - if you're trying to aim at a person, you're not going to suddenly decide to shoot to his sides just because you have two pistols, you'll want to point both of them at roughly the same location. (Whether you'll succeed is another matter, but at point-blank range, which is when the inaccuracy becomes most blatantly obvious regardless of crosshair choice, you'd have a pretty decent chance of achieving convergence. )

That will make bouncy shots extemely hard to use. But it can work if you just replace single pistol mode with deka aim mode.

 

[DaloLorn]

That will make bouncy shots extemely hard to use. But it can work if you just replace single pistol mode with deka aim mode.

That works too. (Honestly, I never use bounce shots - but you do have a good point.)

 

[Damn Polak]

the idea of dual-wielding pistols is usually about trading accuracy for rate of fire and capacity
if you care about these little crosshair problems, don't

@CC-1119 "Appo' are you implying that dual pistols in mb2 converge? i believe they don't

btw. dual DL-44 for hero class WHEN

 

[S o l d i e r]

the idea of dual-wielding pistols is usually about trading accuracy for rate of fire and capacity
if you care about these little crosshair problems, don't

The question is how little are these problems? How much would playing with dual pistols be improved if the crosshair/aim was perfect? (especially for the people that don't know their aim is broken, but for others too) Getting better rate of fire doesn't mean you should get broken aim to compensate for it. The broken aim isn't there on purpose, it isn't meant to be so.

 

[Damn Polak]

How much would playing with dual pistols be improved

imo not enough to justify amount of work put into remaking entire crosshair system

it isn't meant to be so

i believe it's good enough as it is
surely there are more important things in mb2 to fix than slight crosshair innaccuracy for literally two weapons

 

[S o l d i e r]

imo not enough to justify amount of work put into remaking entire crosshair system

I'm not saying that should be done if its really complicated, but if there is an easy fix, it certainly should be fixed.

i believe it's good enough as it is
surely there are more important things in mb2 to fix than slight crosshair innaccuracy for literally two weapons

Again, if there is an easy fix, why don't fix it?

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

@CC-1119 "Appo' are you implying that dual pistols in mb2 converge? i believe they don't

Nah. They don't converge, they function like the cyan lines in the first image.

 

[DaloLorn]

@Damn Polak If previous posts in this thread are accurate, then droideka blasters already converge on the crosshair, just as has been suggested for duals.

 

[Noob]

I just use the crosshair as a center on my monitor and just adjust my shooting by watching where my bullets go when using dual pistols. I hardly ever look at the crosshair for it.