Buff Flame thrower

[LµL]

waste of 10 points. fire damage is so low. and it wastes ur fuel for the jetpack and you walk very slow. either more dmg or cost less points

 

[JamJarBinks]

fire is a deterrant for jedi to back off
bout all i think of it as

that's if they dont speed at ya

maybe i'd like to see a fuel consumption buff or seperate system idk - i aint paying 10 for 3-5s of flame that reduced my jet fuel by almost a quarter

It should do no damage but instantly set anyone in range on fire. Thats what it did to Mace Windu and this is MOVIE BATTLES after all. Also it would work as real crowd control.

 

[LµL]

Well, one of the best. You named three others, and admit it's better than one of them. So it's in the top 3 then, according to you? I think that's pretty good, that's literally 'one of the best'. Also like poison, it needs to be used right. If a BH poison a jedi when they're too close, they can still slash the BH and might have all the FP they need to kill the BH, unless they can move/aim/kick well.

Cortosis also gets completely messed up by a good 3-hit combo which can be done in 1.5 seconds unless the SBD hits the jedi really well during that moment or before they can even connect the first hit. Still kind of a crutch, but not a complete one either.

There's also concussion grenades. I think it's one of the best ones too. Though it can be outranged and anticipated by really good jedi. Generally better than the flamethrower though. But none of these make the flamethrower weak or useless. Especially when the point cost-resource cost-usefulness ratio actually favors the flamethrower out of all these examples.

As explained by other users and partially by myself in this thread, the flamethrower forces a jedi on the move. To pull back or to push forward. Making your opponent move where you might want them to move, or risk taking a lot of damage, that's a powerful tool if you follow it up right.
Even if they simply try to roll to extinguish the flames quickly to deny the DPS, that alone makes them easier to blast at for a short while. A jedi rushing through flames will be open for a counter-attack.
A jedi retreating may save a teammate and put distance between you and your teammates and the jedi that you need, but not too much, just enough to be safer for a moment longer to lower their FP with blaster fire.

I couldn't think of any others. so its 3 of 4. You included concussion generates which makes it 4 of 5. I don't consider bottom 2 positions one of the best.

 

[NERO]

I couldn't think of any others. so its 3 of 4. You included concussion generates which makes it 4 of 5. I don't consider bottom 2 positions one of the best.

Fire grenades, especially now since instant secondary sets jedi on fire. Does the same thing, easier to anticipate and counter, costs more. Worse than der Flammenwerfer
Crouch kick? BH kick? Tracking darts and Advanced Logic ruining MT? What do we count as anti-jedi here, how general does it have to be. Do anti-sith weapons and mechanics count?

I'm not gonna waste further time creating anti-jedi/sith tierlists of every weapon in the game to convince out out of a bias. You can do that yourself.

It should do no damage but instantly set anyone in range on fire. Thats what it did to Mace Windu and this is MOVIE BATTLES after all. Also it would work as real crowd control.

I think this would completely change what the flamethrower is about, it would almost always force the jedi to back off. Or go in for the kill but always lose a certain amount of HP from an encounter with a mando. It would also require a cooldown or a big fuel consumption to balance. I think cooldowns are a poor, artificial way of creating tactical gameplay and we need as few of those as possible. Fuel consumption is already a limitation for mandalorians including the flamethrower in their builds.

I'm open for more abilities that can alter or improve the flamethrower but I don't think it needs a rework or an outright buff.

 

[Edgyfrick]

ok i could see flamethrower being better without being op.

 

[LµL]

Fire grenades, especially now since instant secondary sets jedi on fire. Does the same thing, easier to anticipate and counter, costs more. Worse than der Flammenwerfer
Crouch kick? BH kick? Tracking darts and Advanced Logic ruining MT? What do we count as anti-jedi here, how general does it have to be. Do anti-sith weapons and mechanics count?

I'm not gonna waste further time creating anti-jedi/sith tierlists of every weapon in the game to convince out out of a bias. You can do that yourself.



I think this would completely change what the flamethrower is about, it would almost always force the jedi to back off. Or go in for the kill but always lose a certain amount of HP from an encounter with a mando. It would also require a cooldown or a big fuel consumption to balance. I think cooldowns are a poor, artificial way of creating tactical gameplay and we need as few of those as possible. Fuel consumption is already a limitation for mandalorians including the flamethrower in their builds.

I'm open for more abilities that can alter or improve the flamethrower but I don't think it needs a rework or an outright buff.

That's fair a lot of abilities could be used against Jedi. my viewpoint is really around spending points to counter a specific class or skill. I think flame thrower is not a good value prop for 10 points against a Jedi. I've only noticed it to be effective against novice/noob Jedi who just stand in the flame. Against strong Jedi players I've struggled to use the weapon effectively in 1:1 combat. Im interested how you would play that situation. Maybe I can learn a few things.

 

[mage!]

it sucks that wrist laser was nerfed because now there's not even an alternative to flamethrower, which is more of a smokescreen annoyance than something that actively deters jedi. can't remember the last time I set a jedi on fire because the jedi will either retreat immediately, or more likely rush me down as flamethrower doesn't damage FP, does insignificant damage, and slows me to crouching speed. In extended fights the flamethrower also eats through fuel bar which mando prefers to use for jetpack

maybe increase the speed that mando can walk whilst using flamethrower, or make the flamethrower a 'burst' of flame that does more damage/ignites enemies quicker but have a higher fuel cost like JamJarBinks' suggestion and maybe a short cooldown

 

[NERO]

Against strong Jedi players I've struggled to use the weapon effectively in 1:1 combat. Im interested how you would play that situation. Maybe I can learn a few things.

I'm not very good at it anymore because my aim has gotten much worse, but I try to judge what the jedi is trying to do when I start using the flamethrower. I stop using the flamethrower when the jedi is around a saber's length away to give me enough time to either shoot at him with an EE-3 quickscope or to fly away. I never really get pushed down if I hold walk and smash the hell out of the jump key to activate the jetpack. Being able to hit a jedi midair with blaster fire if they try to jump at you when you try to fly away will also make short work of them.
Holding the Westar charge shot to hit the jedi with when they rush you could work too but I don't actually know if it's still in the game, I've barely played with westar + flamethrower build since I came back from my break. But if it is it's really powerful and maybe easier to hit with than EE-3.
Anyway as I said earlier, the key is to be able to tell what the jedi is going to do then time well your retreat if they rush you.

 

[mage!]

I stop using the flamethrower when the jedi is around a saber's length away to give me enough time to either shoot at him with an EE-3 quickscope or to fly away.

I feel like the flamethrower is designed to stop jedi getting into saber distance so if you're not using it to deter jedi at this range then there might be an issue with how useful/dangerous the flamethrower is?

For me it's because using the flamethrower makes me very slow, and sacrifices FP damage for a 'semi-dangerous' HP damage, maybe the correct buff for flamethrower is a slight mando speed increase which would have the effect of 'lengthening' the flamethrower's use duration, as in the mando can retreat and flame for slightly longer than he can now (aka more damage/higher chance of burning)

 

[NERO]

Most people in this thread appear to agree that the flamethrower is not supposed to simply make jedi run away but to make them move. Democracy is good for a lot of things but it's not necessary the right answer to designing a good game of course.
I think if the flamethrower is tuned to most often set jedi on fire if they decide to push through the fire, it would mean that most encounters with a mandalorian using a flamethrower would mean a large amount of unavoidable damage to the jedi.
I don't know if it was a conscious decision on the dev's part who made the flamethrower, but it's at least a functional piece of the dynamic in jedi vs flamethrower: them being able to get through the flame by taking minimal damage to kill a mandalorian who is not willing to retreat in return.

For the mandalorian, the flamethrower is a tool to 1. make the jedi pull back, 2. to deal high damage to undecisive jedi or jedi who are unable to push forward or pull back safely, killing them faster, for example when being attacked by so many people the jedi won't know what to do. Or 3. to bait the jedi into attacking the mandalorian.
I think this works really well as it is, there's more options available for both parties in an encounter like this. But perhaps if there was more time to set jedi on fire before they can reach the mando, it could punish them better for being indecisive.

 

[LµL]

it sucks that wrist laser was nerfed because now there's not even an alternative to flamethrower, which is more of a smokescreen annoyance than something that actively deters jedi. can't remember the last time I set a jedi on fire because the jedi will either retreat immediately, or more likely rush me down as flamethrower doesn't damage FP, does insignificant damage, and slows me to crouching speed. In extended fights the flamethrower also eats through fuel bar which mando prefers to use for jetpack

+100 this is how I feel vs strong Jedi. The flow chart is below. Maybe I need to add some new logic into my chart

1. Jedi in range of flamethrower I activate it
2. They back away and take minimal damage(not on fire)
3. They rush me
   1. I die as I didn't jump away soon enough. Sometimes Jedi are on fire sometimes not.(Jedi with pull are strong here as they can close ground vs you rapidly and then pull you in)
   2. I jump away and repeat process until out of fuel. I noticed in this cycle Ill run out of fuel before the jedi will die from assaulting me through the flame thrower(in the scenario cycle I've dodged 3-5 attacks).

After many unsuccessful runs through this flow chart I've given up killing Jedi with flame thrower unless their health is very low. (<15 HP) As it seems to be waste of fuel other wise.