Buff Flame thrower
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If you use flames on an experienced Jedi you're gonna have a bad time if you expect them to stand there and take it. It will force the Jedi to either retreat out of range, or commit to trying to attack you. You should anticipate this reaction and plan accordingly. Flaming an inexperienced Jedi is basically a free kill (as they will hesitate more and usually catch fire).
Either way, don't just hold down the flamethrower and expect it to always keep Jedi away.
Either way, don't just hold down the flamethrower and expect it to always keep Jedi away.
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It's worth noting that hitbox-wise afaik it doesn't actually fire projectiles, it just instantly inflicts damage in the entire "cone" as long as you're holding the button. So: It instantly hits even at max range. And its range isn't that bad. This is important to know for aiming it and using it in general.
Also: It forces jedi to move, which is very significant in situations where a Jedi (perhaps supported by gunners) is biding their time in relatively close range looking for an opportunity. Or if they're taunting you with Deflect. You can just say "fuck off, you" and start roasting them.
You force them to move, but of course they may decide to jump at you, and you have to be ready for that (maybe by flying away, or shooting them on their predictable midair arc, or running a little, or doing all three at the same time). That doesn't mean flamethrower is bad. It's good at what it does: Forcing movement.
It's also good for finishing off Jedi who you know are low HP. Which is especially valuable if they have high FP and are playing defensively and would otherwise be a huge pain-in-the-ass to kill.
edit: In case the implication isn't clear enough, I'd say flamethrower is pretty much unusable vs gunners. I sometimes use it when I think the gunner is really low and think the easy-to-hit-with flame damage will close out the fight well enough, but pretty much every time I do that I'm reminded how mediocre the dps is plus I get shot since I'm walking. So I really don't recommend it vs gunners. But I don't consider this a problem with flamethrower.
Also: It forces jedi to move, which is very significant in situations where a Jedi (perhaps supported by gunners) is biding their time in relatively close range looking for an opportunity. Or if they're taunting you with Deflect. You can just say "fuck off, you" and start roasting them.
You force them to move, but of course they may decide to jump at you, and you have to be ready for that (maybe by flying away, or shooting them on their predictable midair arc, or running a little, or doing all three at the same time). That doesn't mean flamethrower is bad. It's good at what it does: Forcing movement.
It's also good for finishing off Jedi who you know are low HP. Which is especially valuable if they have high FP and are playing defensively and would otherwise be a huge pain-in-the-ass to kill.
edit: In case the implication isn't clear enough, I'd say flamethrower is pretty much unusable vs gunners. I sometimes use it when I think the gunner is really low and think the easy-to-hit-with flame damage will close out the fight well enough, but pretty much every time I do that I'm reminded how mediocre the dps is plus I get shot since I'm walking. So I really don't recommend it vs gunners. But I don't consider this a problem with flamethrower.
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cannonfodder
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The way I use the flamethrower against Jedi is I'd turn it on when they are approaching the maximum range of the flames to try to force them away earlier, and if they jump, I stop and start to shoot at them (Jedi's cant regen fp in the air and their path once airborne is predictable). If they choose to approach me I'll just keep flaming them until they are just about to enter saber range and then I jetpack away. If I want to play extra risky, I'll equip fists before I start using the flamethrower so once they approach me, I can instantly leg sweep/kick them the moment they get close to me.
If I did have to pick how the flamethrowers should be changed, I'd make it do more damage depending on where the enemy is in the cone, as flamethrowers IRL and in movies take people down in record time. And if that wouldn't make it in, I'd add a second fuel bar that may possibly be affected by the fuel levels that is dedicated solely to the flamethrower.
I don't think those changes are necessary though, I'm fine with flamethrower as is atm.
If I did have to pick how the flamethrowers should be changed, I'd make it do more damage depending on where the enemy is in the cone, as flamethrowers IRL and in movies take people down in record time. And if that wouldn't make it in, I'd add a second fuel bar that may possibly be affected by the fuel levels that is dedicated solely to the flamethrower.
I don't think those changes are necessary though, I'm fine with flamethrower as is atm.
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By no means should you use flame as a mean of ez winbutton no matter what the jedi does. Doesnt work like that.
Flame is actually one of the strongest jedi killer moves there are. Especially if the jedi is low hp it is practically a free kill. Even a full hp jedi can get hesitant and rushing jedi should always be blasted at. At that point it is mind games; if you think the jedi will push you should just walk and blast and shoot through the push and start flyin once the push is done. If you gamble no push you should instantly fly and start blasting. Most of the time it is wise to fly right away once jedi rushes and just blast since there is only a small gap that the jedi can take an advantage of: you jumping before the jetpack actually actives which is a very small gap. Very experienced though jedi can usually land the push correctly but it is always a risk for the jedi. Just play the game more and learn through experience. Usually if you happen to play the same jedi player many times you start to learn a bit how he plays and then act accordingly.
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As a Jedi main, I view flamethrower as the Mando giving me a free kill. It only ever "works" when I have 20 or less HP, and then I'm their free kill.
If I were to suggest a change, it would be to remove the cone damage and just make it set people on fire instantly. That way it is useful against gunners and makes excellent crowd control.
You'd need to increase fuel burn for balance, though.
If I were to suggest a change, it would be to remove the cone damage and just make it set people on fire instantly. That way it is useful against gunners and makes excellent crowd control.
You'd need to increase fuel burn for balance, though.
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I have a new life mission of getting a kill on you where flamethrower usage played a significant role. (And where it wasn't just me finishing you off.)
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I'm back and it's still dog shit. But I appreciated some of the lengthy responses. Thank you
positive and negatives gained from the post above.
Some changes I think would be interesting.
positive and negatives gained from the post above.
- (-) shit vs gunners
- (-) dmg is low
- (-) uses fuel
- (-) cost 10 points
- (-)restricted movement
- (+) force jedi to move
Some changes I think would be interesting.
- Jedi on fire cannot swing.(makes attacking mando and running through the flamethrower more risky)
- gunners on fire cannot shoot
- Remove movement restrictions while using
- Keep as is but remove fuel usage
- damage increases as you get close
- reduce point cost.
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I think besides not being useful against gunners at all, the flamethrower is fine, assuming the jedi and mando are on a similar skill level, they'll usually give each other about equal levels of trouble in flamethrower situations. Winning is mostly a matter of anticipating and reacting to your opponents actions first, just like everything else in this game.
I've noticed novice mandos often stick around for too long and get easily slashed when I rush through their flamethrower. They could give me a hard time by flying away sooner. I think flamethrower reliant players should be prepared to either save lots of fuel or sacrifice something to be able to use the weapon more. It is one of the best tools against a class played by at least 40% of players in every match on a class that's already extremely versatile.
I've noticed novice mandos often stick around for too long and get easily slashed when I rush through their flamethrower. They could give me a hard time by flying away sooner. I think flamethrower reliant players should be prepared to either save lots of fuel or sacrifice something to be able to use the weapon more. It is one of the best tools against a class played by at least 40% of players in every match on a class that's already extremely versatile.
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I've always thought flame kinda does too much damage. If you aren't paying attention, it will easily eat up a good chunk of your health. But also it's so easy to counter and I'd honestly rather run into a flamethrower mando than a wrist laser mando any day of the week. You don't play wrist laser mando if you don't know how to use it. Flame mando is a simple dynamic able to be performed by anyone.
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I don't believe this sentence. What is the reasoning behind it being one of the best tools vs jedi?
I can name a few I believe are better
- Poison
- SBD Jedi armor
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Yeah i've seen mando fire used really well and i don't think it needs a buff, usually when a jedi fights mando, a good mando uses flame to keep distance then shoots jedi when jedi plays aggressively, its a pretty balanced fight if the jedi screws up he's dead if mando screws up hes dead.
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As an avid Mando player, I have to say flame does not feel under-powered at all. It's almost a must-have, if there are Jedi around, with the current state of FP drains.
However! I do think it would be fun and exciting to see a flamethrower level 2 that, at an increased fuel cost, either upgrades the current flame to a blue flame perhaps, and have it do more damage over time, OR have it set fire to players twice as quick. Alternatively, flamethrower level 2 could be dual-wielding flamethrowers that requires you to be in melee to use, and would provide a significantly wider arc of flame, but probably the same range. Maybe have the damage not stack, and only have an increased rate of setting on fire?
The numbers and details could certainly be tweaked, and flamethrower by no means needs a buff, but I think it would be fun to give Mandos more choice for spending points. Give them a reason to not buy a rocket, or armour 3. I think it'd fun, but again I don't think it's really necessary.
However! I do think it would be fun and exciting to see a flamethrower level 2 that, at an increased fuel cost, either upgrades the current flame to a blue flame perhaps, and have it do more damage over time, OR have it set fire to players twice as quick. Alternatively, flamethrower level 2 could be dual-wielding flamethrowers that requires you to be in melee to use, and would provide a significantly wider arc of flame, but probably the same range. Maybe have the damage not stack, and only have an increased rate of setting on fire?
The numbers and details could certainly be tweaked, and flamethrower by no means needs a buff, but I think it would be fun to give Mandos more choice for spending points. Give them a reason to not buy a rocket, or armour 3. I think it'd fun, but again I don't think it's really necessary.
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Well, one of the best. You named three others, and admit it's better than one of them. So it's in the top 3 then, according to you? I think that's pretty good, that's literally 'one of the best'. Also like poison, it needs to be used right. If a BH poison a jedi when they're too close, they can still slash the BH and might have all the FP they need to kill the BH, unless they can move/aim/kick well.
Cortosis also gets completely messed up by a good 3-hit combo which can be done in 1.5 seconds unless the SBD hits the jedi really well during that moment or before they can even connect the first hit. Still kind of a crutch, but not a complete one either.
There's also concussion grenades. I think it's one of the best ones too. Though it can be outranged and anticipated by really good jedi. Generally better than the flamethrower though. But none of these make the flamethrower weak or useless. Especially when the point cost-resource cost-usefulness ratio actually favors the flamethrower out of all these examples.
As explained by other users and partially by myself in this thread, the flamethrower forces a jedi on the move. To pull back or to push forward. Making your opponent move where you might want them to move, or risk taking a lot of damage, that's a powerful tool if you follow it up right.
Even if they simply try to roll to extinguish the flames quickly to deny the DPS, that alone makes them easier to blast at for a short while. A jedi rushing through flames will be open for a counter-attack.
A jedi retreating may save a teammate and put distance between you and your teammates and the jedi that you need, but not too much, just enough to be safer for a moment longer to lower their FP with blaster fire.
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