ARC Insta-Getup (Very Illegal!)

[Lessen]

I didn't discover this. Some ARC who I forgot the name of showed this to me.
A Dexterity 3 ARC can cancel ANY kind of roll or tumble instantly while in Melee by pressing Guard (reload) + a direction key.

Moreover, Dex 3 ARCs can freely switch weapons in the middle of any roll (and, I believe, any tumble), so ANY time you get knocked down as a Dex 3 ARC, you can select a getup option and then, in the middle of it, quickly switch to Melee and insta-getup, then switch back to your gun. The gun switching does add some time that makes this not a universally perfect option, but it's definitely very good.

You can also use this to dive roll towards someone and then quickly cancel into other knockdowns instead of uppercut, namely spin kick or jump kick.

I asked some of the devs about this and their response implied that it's an inadvertent side effect of the Dex 3 mechanics, rather than a wholly intentional mechanic in itself.

@CC-1119 "Appo' waddup

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

Can you post a video? I haven't been able to repeat this. You are able to cancel lunge/roll with uppercuts or blocking, which honestly just adds to the skill ceiling of ARC, it's very much a class that requires clever manipulation of your movement in order to take on enemies, especially for high level play. I don't personally see anything wrong with this, especially since it doesn't allow you to cancel the getup from a knockdown like a nade explosion or force push, you still have to play out the forward leap/side or back leap, it allows you to cancel the animation or rather, stop where you are mid-lunge and mid-roll. You can already spin kick out of a lunge by the way, you just crouch and RMB mid-lunge.

In regards to it being an unintentional feature, I think a lot of the Dexterity 3 playstyle that is now prevalent in MB2 is unintentional, there were very few ARC players prior to my arrival who genuinely played the class to a competitive level rather than just spamming EMPs & Rockets, that doesn't mean it's overpowered or broken however, some of the best gameplay features in gaming were unintentional and often provided higher skill ceilings, which is what this does. It doesn't prevent you from being shot in the face though, all this does is allow you to cancel or 'feint' a lunge to bait your enemy into swinging his saber or firing at where you're rolling to only for you to stop suddenly.

Regardless of this though, the lunge into uppercut is still the best choice for most situations offensively, it allows you a knockdown straight out of a combat lunge and requires a good deal of skill to pull off successfully.

 

[DaloLorn]

I've tested this at one point, don't know who told me - bug or no bug, it's legit.

Basically, you start a getup while in melee, then you guard. As far as I could tell, you immediately finished the getup and could carry on as if nothing had happened.

 

[Lessen]

This does let you instantly cancel knockdowns from push or nades (as soon as you reach the ground, anyway), letting you jump or even just dive-roll again to avoid stuff that maybe coulda gotten you before. When I said "tumble" i was referring to being knocked down, as by kicks, pushes, nades, etc, and you can definitely get up instantly by holding a direction and reload while in Melee.

You can already spin kick out of a lunge by the way, you just crouch and RMB mid-lunge.

i'm unable to replicate this, but I can very quickly do a spin kick out of a dive (lunge) by guard-canceling into it. >:y

this has more uses than baiting, it lets you do super long range flying kicks or spin kicks. And I'm absolutely sure I used it to do super quick getups from Pushes, but in testing right now I will acknowledge that I can't seem to use it to get up any faster from my own EMP nades. Between long range sweep kicks and essentially Push imperviousness, it may give Anti-Sith Melee ARC some legitimate usefulness, the way that wrist-weapons Melee Mando has some legitimate usage vs Jedi.

 

[Shalak Que]

to replicate you must be on the ground when you hit movement key+reload not in the air or it wont work also must have melee out and dex 3 as mentioned
-does not work on rolls you must be knocked down

 

[Lessen]

@Shalak Que

I, er, yes. I said in the OP: "While in Melee" and "DEXTERITY 3." Not sure why you're restating what I said.

But whoops yeah I forgot to mention you have to be touching the ground.

And I'm not entirely sure what you mean about it not working on rolls. It works on the "rolls" that occur when you're landing from the air and holding crouch, and it works on the "rolls" (dives) that you can do with class special 2. (and it works on knocked-down rolls) That all works.

 

[Shalak Que]

well it didn't work while rolling in my experience also i may have been the one to find this and spread it around ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) but its not something game breaking since only works in melee meaning you cant switch to melee on the ground after you've been pushed down and get back up besides that's what dex 3 is for anyway and people seem to agree so ill leave it at that

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

AFAIK this is on the list to be fixed by Tempest, it's pretty busted lol.

 

[Lessen]

It's sorta simultaneously an egregious bug and not actually all that advantageous of a thing, since it can only be done in Melee. Basically my only strategic use for it is to run along not being too scared of a Sith ambush since if they slash I can probably jump out of the way and if they push I can instagetup.

 

[Lessen]

Also I suppose it allows roll-cancel into sweep kick, or roll cancel into jump into back-roll if you wanna fuck with someone who read your roll uppercut.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

It's completely broken versus saberists, as they have no way of catching you if you make use of this, since you can getup and continue running faster than they can spam push to keep you down, especially if you fire back every so often.

 

[Jeob]

It's completely broken versus saberists, as they have no way of catching you if you make use of this, since you can getup and continue running faster than they can spam push to keep you down, especially if you fire back every so often.

True, unless they have pull (sometimes even that's escapable) or push3+lightning3 and they stun you with lightning. But since most sith only have push 3, you can trolol them pretty much always.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

True, unless they have pull (sometimes even that's escapable) or push3+lightning3 and they stun you with lightning. But since most sith only have push 3, you can trolol them pretty much always.

You might be confusing regular arc movement and this exploit, regular arc movement can be stunned/pulled to distract and disable you but you can always escape, there is no situation outside of two sith working together with lightning and push/pull where you, with perfect reflexes, positioning and use of acrobatics cannot escape their saber swing. That's the beauty of it, IMO. It makes for a class that has an incredibly high skill ceiling but rewards it with absolutely gorgeous displays of Matrix-like Gun-fu.

This exploit, you simply select your fists and every time you are knocked down on the ground, press block/R during getup animation and it cancels the getup animation, you instantly stand up, can let go of block and just run away - it's pretty much impossible to catch someone who does this, with push, pull or lightning. They move far too fast as there's no delay during a knockdown for a saberist to get close, which is why Tempest has it on the 'to be fixed' list as far as I know.

 

[President Bossk]

Remember guys, this is a secret. DON'T TELL THE DEVS.

 

[Jeob]

I was talking about the exploit of course. But with or without exploit the 3 second lightning stun is unescapable (you must not get hit by it). Also pull -in case of getting knocked down- is only escapable with "regular movement" thanks to flinch and/or forward getup and sith doesn't crouch.

it's pretty much impossible to catch someone who does this, with push, pull or lightning. They move far too fast as there's no delay during a knockdown for a saberist to get close

So I was just pointing out that this exploit can be caught with pull and lightning3+push3 quite easily. Trust me, I think I abuse this bug the most with ARC. Lightning+push shouldn't need explaining, the 3 second stun speaks for itself, ARC doesn't do anything during that and often it's more than enough time for the sith to close the distance.

I'll break down pull with detail. There's the time while the "falling" happens, these are milliseconds but they matter. Then you have to start a getup animation from the "knocked down" state, and there's a delay until you can do that -again milliseconds, but they add up-, which varies, I don't know what does it depend on, one variable seems to be whether you got knocked down on the ground or from mid-air. Then you cancel the getup animation with reload, and this isn't instantaneous either, the getup animation runs for a few milliseconds before you find yourself standing still even if you hold both a getup button and the reload button from the moment you're falling down. Also you can only cancel animation if you're on the ground. If you're flying in the air you can't do the exploit, you have to wait until you hit the ground (this only happens if you got pushed mid-air or flight from a frag nade).
Overall I'm gonna estimate this is roughly ~0,4-0,6 second, during this time the sith is ready for swinging, pull animation recovery takes less time than push. Closing distance isn't needed since pull has done that already. Well unless it was a pull from longer distance, but most pulls are done from a closer distance when you end up right next to the sith.
So overall this leads to 2 common experience for me:
1. The sith is right next to you with a swing in the "windup animation", which will hit you in like 0,2 seconds. Even a sprint strafe won't save you, the only solution is a dive (but that can be on cooldown) and sometimes you can evade with a jump in time, but WA/WD swings might still catch your legs. So in this case there's hope to survive.
2. When I'm doing the getup animation--->cancel exploit, I get slashed in half by a swing aka death 100%. I believe the root of the cause is how long the "falling" happens and the delay between the "knocked down" state and starting the getup animation, in other words how fast can you get to start the getup animation. In this case it takes too long, by the time you get to the exploit part, there's already an incoming swing. Or maybe it actually only depends on the sith . Maybe if he starts the swing as fast as possible after the pull, then case 2 gonna happen always. If they delay even a little with the swing then case 1 can happen. But nah, this doesn't add up with my experience. Against a competent sith -with pull 3- sometimes I survive as described in case 1 and sometimes they catch me immediately. Still the important thing is that you can't fuck around with only the exploit for too long, you should walk/crouch against their pull. But against push, you don't have to give a fuck about knock down.
Just mentioning: against sith who delay a lot between pulling and swinging, you can avoid their swing with sprint alone of course

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

Remember guys, this is a secret. DON'T TELL THE DEVS.

Not anymore!

 

[SpeedDemosArch]

It's sorta simultaneously an egregious bug and not actually all that advantageous of a thing,

there's more to it than that.

 

[Lessen]

there's more to it than that.

how fast is regular sprinting in this same situation lol

 

[SpeedDemosArch]

how fast is regular sprinting in this same situation lol

much slower because arc3 is faster than hero speeds even with dashspam and can keep a respectable pace with mandojet/force speed

you're also losing that stamina while gaining none of it in return

you want high skill ceilings? this is it.

 

[CC-1119 'Appo']

much slower because arc3 is faster than hero speeds even with dashspam and can keep a respectable pace with mandojet/force speed

you're also losing that stamina while gaining none of it in return

you want high skill ceilings? this is it.

Being fair, you lost three seconds to a wookie blocking you so it's not necessarily much faster, though it is faster. I mean, I like this mechanic as far as depth goes, it fits with the ARC playstyle of being able to control all aspects of movement including cancelling rolls to bait swings, but it should probably cost stamina to cancel any sort of movement as being able to spam it is pretty bad.