About objectives

[simsalex]

Hello.
After a long game I had several offers about the objectives on the maps. Every objective is too casual and easy now, I think they should change:

Smuggler:
If imps have planted a bomb, but rebs have managed to kill all imps - rebs win. It's wrong, it looks especially silly when it's 1 second before explosion, last imperial dies and rebs win. Bomb defuse should be a must.
From the side of the imps - it's too bad that all imps have the bomb. Make the bomb an entity which can be picked and dropped.
Also, let the rebels pick that bomb up, so that they can steal it from imps to not let them plant it.
Give rebels the possibility to plant this bomb anywhere.

Alderaan - same about bomb picking.

Echobase:
There's a wall in the side, which can be destroyed without any items. Make a bomb for imps there, which can be planted on a wall
Also, there are "locks" on doors which should be broken to open the doors. Considering that those are panels, it looks quite strange. Replace destruction with a hack.

DotF:
Task of rebels is to lock themselves in the throne room, but it looks stupidly when there are tons of imps in it. Throne free of imps should be a condition to win. You can lock the throne, but until every imp there won't be killed/thrown out, obj won't be completed.
Same about a window: before obj can be completed, it has be to closed with an iron flap. Control panel of this flap will be in the throne room.

Tatooine:
Same as dotf, if a ship flies away with imperials on board, obj isn't completed until every imp on ship is dead. If imperials kill every rebel on ship - they win.

Deathstar:
Same problem with destructible panels. Replace the destructible panel on imps' spawn with a hackable one.
Add a possibility to open the ship not only from the control room, but also near the ship as well, but taking much more time (to prevent control room camping)

 

[Preston]

No pls not meh dotf

 

[MaceMadunusus]

DOTF's objective is changing, I won't currently say to what.

 

[Preston]

DOTF's objective is changing, I won't currently say to what.

I cri evry time

 

[BigBossBigTeef]

DOTF's objective is changing, I won't currently say to what.

Do we have to sacrifice people to the pit to win?

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

As long as there's some sort of orbital bombardment I'm satisfied.

Rain of fire please.

 

[MaceMadunusus]

How do you rain fire on an indoor level when JKA can't do destruction? D:

 

[Helix]

It's a quite srs topic guys, don't flood please.
I like all ideas, except maybe breaking the panels. Remember, in EP4 Han has shot that panel in hangar so that Vader doesn't get closer?
Also about bomb picking, well, I don't know about how difficult it will be to implement it, but I have a bad feeling about this...

 

[simsalex]

Also about bomb picking, well, I don't know about how difficult it will be to implement it, but I have a bad feeling about this...

It has already been implemented on the map mb2_assault_yavin_4

 

[GoodOl'Ben]

The change ideas to the bomb objective maps sound nice. Destroying panels should be quicker, but that's all. I would keep the panel destruction on Deathstar as it is because that's how it's in the movies. Emulating that moment is nice. Currently it's just a bit too hard to do so with the panel being so high HP though.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

How do you rain fire on an indoor level when JKA can't do destruction? D:

Do what you did with Republic Cruiser.

Cruiser and maps like Korriban with traps, lava, swinging axes, escorting npc mission, etc. Now those are maps that are more than static architecture. They should be the mold that all cast to aspire to.


Death Star - Is too boring. Comparing it to previous versions it's just not as interesting. Ever round is a repeat of the same chokepoints being fought, taken and retaken. 85% of all action takes place in the same area.

I remember with escorting Leia even total noobs and loners would either help escort Leia or act as a secondary assault team/diversion. Of course there was a problem with Leia being too easy to lame and kill but really, we could have just kept her in with small changes. I liked having the only hack being the tractor beam and then all you had to do was escort Leia close enough to the doors of the Falcon. You could have made her invincible so the focus would be on targeting the player leading her That was really the only issue to me for npc Leia. Too easy to kill and ignore other players.

You could wave it off as 'take her alive'.

 

[Damn Polak]

Death Star - Is too boring. Comparing it to previous versions it's just not as interesting. Ever round is a repeat of the same chokepoints being fought, taken and retaken. 85% of all action takes place in the same area.

wrong.
imp side you can go:
1. main
2. side left
3. side right
4. lower -> tie hangar
5. lower -> tractor beam
6. def main junction
7. def obj

now lets compare with dotf:
1. main -> hang
2. side -> gen
3. obj
4. fed -> hang (in case secondary)

tl;dr dont blame the map

DOTF's objective is changing, I won't currently say to what.

 

[Chaos the Chaotic]

Wrong? Bull. Laying out what you could do doesn't change what happens all the time. Same fight in the same place, over and over. Sometimes it feels worse than dotf because its even more claustrophobic.

I'm blaming the objectives and player inclination which is of course influenced by map design and the mission.

 

[Vitéz]

We have limited lives in MB, what leads us to the kinda obvious fact that its much easier to simply kill the enemy for the win in a normal match. Normal match = the defender team doesnt abandon its defending role and basically camp near to the objective... same goes for the attacker team too ofc. The other part of the story that hacking looks like to be the favourite objective type in MB. Hacking sounds trivial, but ingame its a very hard and complicated task. Again, assuming a normal match, its kinda impossible to hack the objective, because hacking requires a nearly empty room, or at least preventing the enemy to kill the hacker... short version: the defender team must die. If they die, hacking is unnecessary in most cases, because its either an instant win for the attacker team for killing all defender; or the reinf can arrive before the final objective could be completed on the most popular hack based maps. Of course it only goes for normal matches, there're too many noobs on pug matches, who love to abandon the objective and let the attackers win.

Another flaw is that usually there's a choke objective on almost all maps what is a must to complete the mission. So if the defender team can defend this single objective, losing everything else simply doesnt matter. Best example is the Jedi Temple: nobody cares about how many youngling is dead, if the hack room is properly defended they win. Another similiar map is the Death Star: nobody cares about neither the tractor beam, nor the Falcon, if the control room is defended properly, the attacker team is doomed. Usually these choke objectives favours the defender team, because their room are spammed with covers and usually have 2 entrances, what are seperated by a lot of cover; and their corridors are far away from each other. This forces the attacker team to split up, while the defender team can stay united, and even make an offensive on the seperated attacker team.

Other objective types should be used, like destroy 1 objective from 2 (S&D from CoD) [attacker/defender], bring back/destroy 3 items from the 5 [attacker/defender], destroy 1 objective [attacker/attacker]; capture an item (1 flag CTF, could be turned into an MB version "capture the ysalamiri" from JKII to balance classes) [attacker/attacker], escort (with pre-scripted routes, like in JKII single player) or something like these. Just make sure its not enough to camp a single objective to win for the defender team... its unfair and boring.

 

[ZwM]

I don't want to sound like a d*ck that only replies negatively, but here is what I think(don't take it to yourself):

The game's priority shouldn't be realism, but gameplay. There will always be loopholes in the whole thing, but maintaining good gameplay is more important.
Destroyable panels have one big advantage over hackable ones, they can be done by distance(you won't be somehow cut in half because a sith is camping with sense behind the doors, like it would happen in echobase) and you can do it halfway and than continue destroying it. In hackable ones it's either hack at once or be killed - it's much harder to do them with many enemies around. That's why we have these two different entities to use them in different places in different maps.

About smuggler, killing another team is always a victory - it's hardcoded(afaik) - it simply triggers the end of a round with a winning party. I guess it would be too much work in comparison to the benefits, because the only one you've mentioned is that it looks more logical...

Tatooine is similar to smuggler. Although in this case I would think that it sounds really good to make such a requirement(no living imps in the ship) - though I believe it would be awful to implement(it would require to play with radiant's triggers and/or scripts). Not to mention that hardly ever anyone hacks the ship in tatooine. In most cases it's just win by killing every single imp.

So I think this is it. As for me I really like the objectives on republiccruiser and jabba. (in jabba it's a requirement that the team is willing to play to defend/attack the hutt).